Lionel Pinion gear 2036-127 - pitch ?

I believe you can use math to solve for the gear pitch:

Measure the diameter excluding the gear teeth of the gear (or radius multiplying by 2). Divide this by the number of teeth.

https://sciencing.com/how-8662...late-gear-pitch.html

Here is the math:
(5/16") diameter / 14 tooth= 0.0223214285714286
As per this site Pitch can be a whole number only.
What nominal value of pitch above result doe's represent  ?

Chris can you tell us any more about the project? 

It's nothing fancy. I'm just trying my luck with DIY project of  DC conversion of post war Lionel 2036 locomotive.
Not much to loose for me if i fail. Original motor and e unit have been already damaged so I decided to have some fun in DC modification project. In case something will go wrong way I can always buy replacement parts and bring this locomotive back to original condition.

So far I rebuilt chassis to be more serviceable and replaced original motor with Mabuchi RF500.
I also added 2 PTFE washers for gears having direct (scratching) contact with chassis.
New motor shaft diameter is 2mm hence my need to replace pinion gear. Old one can't be used b/c it is for 1/8" shaft and doesn't have set screw. I initially thought, that I have to custom order such gear but it looks like RC racing - hobby stores have huge selection of pinion gears. I believe to find there what I need.

Great!  How about some pics to document your progress?  I would like to hear more about how you rebuilt the chassis to be more serviceable.  I once had a wire break off the pickup plate  I couldn't figure out how to get in there to solder it back on.  What a pain in the butt!!  Thanks for sharing!  -Ted

Here are chassis and motor pics.
I dissembled original chassis completely, removed old motor, e-unit and replaced original aluminium plate SL spacers to brass ones. In fact I had to drill a bit each riveted assembly point. Brass SL spacers were tapered with 6-32 thread so I can use regular (flat head) bolts and assemble or disassemble chassis as per service need   I was also successful in tapering old aluminium spacers (so they can be eventually reused) but decided to use brass ones. 6-32 is probably maximum bolt size to be applied for spacers and chassis assembly. All pics are showing early prototype work and mess on my desk Don't hold my word on this work since I don't know yet if this conversion will be successful.

Ted,

There is a spreading tool that is deigned to spread the frame plates enough to allow the shoe assembly to be carefully removed.

It is #HH-1073 from Hobby Horse Products, page 4

Larry

For the 2036-127 pinion I find the following data: pitch diameter, 0.298"; outside diameter, 0.334"; root diameter, 0.224"; number of teeth, 14; diametral pitch, 48; pressure angle 20 degrees; face width, 0.156"; bore 0.125"; radius on one corner of the teeth, 0.031"; material, cold roll steel. 

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out. 

Dave,

Thank you for detailed reply! It confirmed my speculations ! I came with these numbers by reviewing catalogs of RC pinion gears.
I was looking for 0.33" diameter gear having 14 teeth. The only that matched this spec was the gear with nominal (diametral) pitch 48.
There are plenty of gears like this on ebay or RC stores. Some of them even made out of titanium!
I think I have all I need to move my project forward. Of course I'll share info with my progress on it.

Thx again 

Chris.

Type of pinion gear, which I purchased is:
"Associated Mini Rival RC18R / T / MT / B Pinion Gear 14T 48 Pitch 21155" for 2mm shaft.
It fits perfectly! Many more gears like this can be find with keywords: 21155, 14T, pinion...etc

My home made wheel timing alignment jig.
Created with intention of using workbench vise as press.
All 6 wheels are pressed in the same time on their shafts.

Works well for me!

Almost finished work.
As of now with rectifier only but DC e-unit is on the way.

I've wanted to do something like this for a long time, could be a game-changer.  Dying to see how this runs!!

With rectifier only this motor runs too fast and engine is running like crazy (seems to be less powerful as well).
I could adjust motor speed to acceptable level with using ultra cheap, ebay LM2596 step down DC-DC converter but my target is to use e-unit. I'll keep you posted how this end up.

  I wonder if it would mind only using half the ac wave? 

Run the rectifier in series...one track goes to -neg in. Jump both bridge rect. ~ ac terminals together. Then +pos out goes to one motor leg, the other motor leg to 2nd rail. The lumpier dc current is less power per throttle notch, but still dc. Watch for heat...it might run even cooler though.

Is there a bigger , slower motor to use than the RF5000?

Chirss posted:

... engine is running like crazy (seems to be less powerful as well).

Adding another reduction gear set would solve both of those problems. Since the original motor field has been removed, there should be plenty of room to re-position the new motor.

Dave

Audio equipment ( tape recorders, vcr's... etc) motors looks promising.

example models:
JEG-530AD 2F(2B)
MABUCHI EG-530AD-2B

At least 2 times less rpm and few times more powerful.
They have built in speed control adjustment.
Size can be a problem - need to check.

I would be surprised if this motor had enough torque to do the job. I agree that extra gearing is required. Hope it works out as I would like to do this with some of my old locos.

My son is happy with the speed and torque this engine has with Mabuchi DC motor. All he wants me to add is reverse unit  

What can it pull? Do you have enough similar common cars to give us an idea?

  (I weigh and mark my cars with a sticker on the frame so anyone can easily keep the heavies up front to prevent long heavy trains from string lining light cars in small curves.

See attached video. On the same track as before: heavy tender + 2 coach cars + 4 box cars.
Engine still have quite a lot of torque but wheels are loosing traction. Loco 2036 has bare steel wheels. After removing old pulmor motor engine is much lighter. I think this contributes to lost traction. Maybe adding some weight to the engine or adding stronger magnet ( ND) to existing one will resolve the problem. Another fact is that my track is rather low quality - cheap Menards tracks, bumpy and sparky).

I hope this will help you to make any decision.

Not too bad.  Adding weight to the loco to get the traction you need is a good idea. Even cheap dc docksides turn into good pullers with just weight and a rectifier.

  You could go with the Manco technique of epoxy and neo magnets on the bottom.  Since the 2037 magnetraction bushings are hens teeth, but needed for magnetraction, I'll likely have some on at least one of my six driver locos eventually too.

Interestingly, my best pullers are the heaviest, but with no tire or magnetraction. Nothing stalls, it's wheel slip that limits them most.

I'm sure it will spawn some copies. Thanks a lot for posting it.

  This is only the second good regearing and remotoring thread I can recall since I joined. Good or bad news alike,  I'd love to be updated on it during it's life. 

   You don't like your Menards track?  My 0-36 is great. No waves, sparks, or bumps, just smooth new track.

Adriatic posted:

   You don't like your Menards track?  My 0-36 is great. No waves, sparks, or bumps, just smooth new track.

Menards gauge 0 tracks is a subject for another topic IMHO

I probably wasn't so lucky as you with these tracks purchases.
Their rail pins become loose very quickly. If you squeeze them back with pliers too much they become bumpy.  To avoid all of this my kids like to wrap rubber band around tracks pin connectors ( you can see it in attached videos). These tracks (especially curved ones) also develop quickly electric shortages between middle and outer rails. All b/c of poor insulation material used for metal bars holding them. It happened to me that a few tracks were factory shorted (straight out Menards shelf)! We started marking bad tracks to avoid frustration during track assembly. From time to time I have to fix pile of marked tracks. What typically helps is replacing worn rail insulation and clamping rail back.

Great work Chriss!

If the first video you posted is really "max speed" (as implied by the filename) then it's already slower than stock.  Max speed of a stock 2036 would make it airborne on the first curve!  Yes, regearing would help, but I know with these transverse motors that's tough to do.  The manufacturers' answer was a change to worm drive, which would require some kind of gearbox, gear tower, or a major rework of the chassis.

Totally agree with adding weight- I would add some lead tire weights at the base of the chassis to make it a little heavier than stock.  Magnets only work on ferrous track, and pick up all kinds of debris that might potentially foul the gears.  Also, oil the axles and rollers of those passenger cars.  If you have room, consider going with wider curves to reduce drag.

I want to echo what Adriatic said above... I'm really excited to see a thread about improving / modifying the performance of a postwar loco.  Right now my trains are boxed up, but lately I have been dying to tinker and do something like this.  Thanks for sharing and keep us posted about future developments!!  -Ted

I'm glad you like it.  Actually worm gear was my initial concept for this project. I was planning to use shaft from original pulmor's armature and different type of Mabuchi motor ( flat one with long 2mm shaft). I didn't decide to go this path only b/c worm gear locks engine wheels when motor is unpowered - so kids can't play such engine off the track. This project is still doable but I have to buy somewhere another junky 2-6-4 or 2-6-2 postwar engine I can experiment with.

I'd put up a "junk frames wanted" ad here on the forum. There are some folks with enough junk frames you might end up with some free ones. Once you have a chassis going, then worry about a shell.

....I was tempted to donate already, but NEED my two to get just one

Adriatic posted:

I'd put up a "junk frames wanted" ad here on the forum. There are some folks with enough junk frames you might end up with some free ones. Once you have a chassis going, then worry about a shell.

....I was tempted to donate already, but NEED my two to get just one

Add posted:

https://ogrforum.com/...c/junk-frames-wanted