Lionel Plastic Trestle Sets: High 5% grade

It has worked for around 75-100 years so far.

Any of the larger magnetraction can make the grade but lower the voltage when they are descending the grade.

Another secret to using these is limited train length; say 4-6 cars max depending on their weight and whether the engine has traction tires or not. 

Rod

Anyone interested in a custom made grade from O" to 7" in about 9', It's yours if you are in the western Mass area, it's to long to ship.

They are made to the toy train tradition. Over and under on 4x8 platforms. 

I made my grade out of 2 inch pink foam installation board. I went 5 inches high in 16 feet and everything I have run so far has had no issues and have been running 12-15 cars. 

What romiller said.  They were sold to kids who probably liked the roller-coaster action as the train crossed over itself and zoomed down the other side.  I'm pretty sure that in some of the "Model Railroader"-type books, Lionel advised against using it with older 1940s locos like the 675, because they tend to run away downgrade and derail at the bottom.

It's kid stuff, nothing realistic about it.  And unless you have some of the latest equipment with speed control, you're likely to encounter operating issues.  Had one in the 1980s and experimented with it for a little while.  Ended up building a single-level layout.  Definintely not one of my favorite accessories.

Get two.  Slide a half inch shim under every other one.  You have now reduced the grade by half.  You've also doubled the length of the grade.  That is the trade off.  Since real estate is at a premium on most O gauge model railroad pikes some are willing to accept steeper grades as the cost of having more room to do other things.

Bill,  I think you meant shove a quarter inch shim under every other one, to cut the grade in half.  Good idea.

You could always use 2 sets and use 1/4" shims underneath every other trestle (I'm trusting you that they are 1/2" between each size, I didn't go measure to confirm). 

Meaning arrange them in order, with two in a row of each piece, then add the shim under every other piece (the second of the 2 as you rise).

Of course if you are rising to something that is expecting the standard height of the last trestle, don't add a second one for the largest one, or it will be 1/4" higher than desired.

This should roughly halve the percentage grade though.

(that's what I get for opening tabs and then replying... typing same time as Bill N)

-Dave

I do not believe that there is a 1/2” difference between every pair of trestle supports. There is a vertical curve at both the bottom and top of the grade. This trestle set was well engineered by Lionel. In Lionel literature over the years they explained how a resister could be used on the down grade to control the speed. As I recall they suggested using the # 88 variable resistor to do this. 

All I know is that if you had a trestle set in the 1950s, life was good.

While not at all to scale, the gradients used in Lionel's trestle set allow those of us with limited space to enjoy a multiple level track plan.

The Williams locomotives shown in this picture can easily handle a decent size train. Use of Electric Railroad's "Cruise Commander" means they maintain a constant speed both up and down the grade.

I used two sets, as mentioned, on my rises.  Plus a whole lot of "A" bents.  Almost all of my '072' is on Lionel trestles.  The pictures below are of the planning stage and 'finished'.  Never really finished.

Correct Manyrock.  Sorry.  I had a dog trying to get me to take him for a walk.

@David Johnston posted:

I do not believe that there is a 1/2” difference between every pair of trestle supports. There is a vertical curve at both the bottom and top of the grade...

Yes, there is a vertical easement.

@Bill N posted:

Get two.  Slide a half inch shim under every other one.  You have now reduced the grade by half.  You've also doubled the length of the grade...

Or, use 40" track sections and use one bent every 20".

OK, stupid questions again by me.

I see two references above, to bent track.  One mentions A bends, another just bent.

So, how does this work.  I can't imagine having a straight section for 20 inches, and then bending the track upward at given points to get the angle up to the next grade.  Is that how it works? 

How would you have to build your structure support underneath the track, if there is a new discreet bend every 20 inches?  Wouldn't gaps be created between the underside of the track and the supporting bed?

As for the Lionel Trestle set, you guys are totally right.  I set them up as directed in the instructions.  Both of my engines required more power going up, making grinding noises all of the way, and then raced to the bottom.   (The old Scout engine became a runaway train!)

Don, the only Cruise Commander I have is my right hand on the lever of an old 1033 transformer.  If I have to give the engine a quick power boost, I pull the whistle lever.  :-)

Mannyrock

I’m not sure what the A bends are either.  But IIRC I thought I heard @ericstrains.com mention in a video that his grade to connect the two levels is almost 6%.  Granted I think it’s nearly all dead strait.

I am no expert but I think where you run into the most trouble is with locos that lack magnetraction, don’t have traction tires, and are really lightweight.

@Mannyrock posted:

 

Don, the only Cruise Commander I have is my right hand on the lever of an old 1033 transformer.  If I have to give the engine a quick power boost, I pull the whistle lever.  :-)

Mannyrock

One way to do it the old fashioned way is make two blocks - upgrade and downgrade.  Send a higher voltage to upgrade and lower voltage to down.

@Mannyrock posted:

OK, stupid questions again by me.

I see two references above, to bent track.  One mentions A bends, another just bent.

"Bend" is a typo, "bent" is defined HERE and HERE.

@rplst8 posted:

One way to do it the old fashioned way is make two blocks - upgrade and downgrade.  Send a higher voltage to upgrade and lower voltage to down.

You probably need at least 3 blocks.  The correct way to do this* is by using diodes or resistors to lower the voltage on the downhill and flat portions of the layout, leaving the uphill block at full power.  If the same segment is used for both uphill and downhill (as with a reversing loop on the upper level), then you'll need relays to automatically control which resistors are in the circuit at which time.  And for each block, the resistance has to be somewhat adjustable, because every consist is different.  Even the level portion of the layout can be split into multiple blocks, if you want to give your train a "running start" at the grade.  Or, you can just step up to a RailKing with PS3.

The real question is, what's your appetite for frustration?  I messed with the trestle set long before speed control was available, and concluded that 5% was too steep for reliable operation.  If I win the lottery and buy a house with a 30 x 40 train room, it will have multiple levels connected by reasonable 1% grades. Otherwise, one level, pool-table flat!

[*The wrong way to do it, is to use two transformers, or a multi-control transformer with its handles set to different voltages.  When a train crosses into the other block, it feeds power back into the secondary of the other transformer.  This is bad, as in "don't cross the beams" kind of bad.  If you want to know why, ask on the electrical forum.]

@Ted S posted:

[*The wrong way to do it, is to use two transformers, or a multi-control transformer with its handles set to different voltages.  When a train crosses into the other block, it feeds power back into the secondary of the other transformer.  This is bad, as in "don't cross the beams" kind of bad.  If you want to know why, ask on the electrical forum.]

Doesn’t this also happen with power districts or crossing from one loop to another in a command environment?

@Ted S posted:

[*The wrong way to do it, is to use two transformers, or a multi-control transformer with its handles set to different voltages.  When a train crosses into the other block, it feeds power back into the secondary of the other transformer.  This is bad, as in "don't cross the beams" kind of bad.  If you want to know why, ask on the electrical forum.]

You could use 3 CW-80 transformers, or 3 PM-1 PowerMasters, or 3 PowerMaster/PowerStation controllers, or any combination of them properly phased, which all work well without the dangerous fault currents that occur with conventional transformers.

@Ted S posted:

[*The wrong way to do it, is to use two transformers, or a multi-control transformer with its handles set to different voltages.  When a train crosses into the other block, it feeds power back into the secondary of the other transformer.  This is bad, as in "don't cross the beams" kind of bad.  If you want to know why, ask on the electrical forum.]

@rplst8 posted:

Doesn’t this also happen with power districts or crossing from one loop to another in a command environment?

In the Command environment, the fault currents are minimal if at all as all track is set at 18 volts(nominally) typically using identical power supplies for distinct power districts.