Lionel Pre-War Inspired S2 Freight Set set arrived

Handsome - Does 'ringy-dingy' imply a Legacy controlled bell?

Am not familiar with this set...  :-)

D500,

   Now that is my kind Legacy Tin, get pick up!  Beautiful Engine!

PCRR/Dave

Sam - yes, this was in the catalogue last year. The cars appear to be "Weaver", aka, Lionscale. Very nice. very shiny (think early Williams), as is appropriate. Scale set decorated like 1930's.

Yes - the "ringy-dingy" implied a swinging bell (it works - note the "swing" angle).

To add to the endearing nature of the set, these cars come with the usual hardware for mounting scale/Kadee couplers, should you ever decide this rolling stock belongs on your 3RScale (or 2-rail!) layout.

This is the only scale equipment that I have ever bought that I do not want to spray with Dullcote.

Received my set Thursday. Really looks great. Appearance wise the set is really fantastic. These are just some initial comments as I have had the set for only a couple of days. 

All functions worked great and there were no problems out of the box. The gear box was well lubricated but some of the other axles were dry so I put a drop of oil on them. 

The bell function is really neat.

There are only 2 pick up rollers. 

So going through Fastrack 048 switches as moderately slow speeds leads to:

Here it is pulling some aluminum passenger cars.

Other comments. The locomotive is cast metal so it is very heavy for the size (like my H-12-44). The metal body  really helps the sound resonate. The paint is glossy, but not super high gloss. I would estimate in the neighborhood of 45 deg. (semi gloss is 60 deg. while high gloss is 20 deg.) The mechanism is very smooth and the locomotive has the potential to crawl very slowly. Might need really clean track to do that. I am not sure if there in Odyssey speed control as the locomotive slows slightly in curves. Unlike many of the new production locomotives, the wheels cannot be turned by hand so don't force it.  The cars are very nice looking, but derail easily. The caboose derails spontaneously on any section of track though the trucks seems to swivel easily. Even on 048 curves I have problems with cars derailing behind the locomotive; even cars with articulated couplers. The traction tires are very thick and do not match the contours of the wheel very well. As such the locomotive bounces around violently while in operation. Hopefully the tires wear a little during running and are pressed more into the cut in the wheel. Overall a nice looking set with some very cool features. The locomotive is really the star of the set. 

My experience with the loco was different from WBC's, but I have GG switches (the original "O-100" type) and GG/Curtis track.

My S2 does not "bounce around" nor stall in switches; in fact it is very smooth. I have the earlier Lionel TMCC S1 and S2, and both also have only 2 rollers. Neither has stalled in switches, and I have used one of them as a switcher.  I run only at nominally prototypical speeds.

Which only goes to show us how much switch/loco design interacts.

I have yet to run the cars; as they are "Lionscale" pieces, I presume, problems apparently will be forthcoming. I'll try them later.

This set looks right at home (aesthetically) with the 1988 reissue of the Hiawatha. Really nice y’all.

Nice looking set.  I hope it doesn't become a shelf queen, based on what you have written.   

WBC:

"The cars are very nice looking, but derail easily. The caboose derails spontaneously on any section of track though the trucks seems to swivel easily."

Yesterday I pushed and pulled these cars on my 072, GG/Ross/Curtis layout with nary a problem, including over switches. No derailments. They are too smooth-rolling - hard to couple because at a slight touch they roll away. A little drag can be good.

It is true, it seems to me, that GG-type Hi-Rail track (including Ross, Curtis and ROW) does seem to generate fewer track issues than the other brands.

For you folks that are lucky enough to have this set, I would be interested in a side by side comparison of the hopper in this set versus an 816 or repro 2816.  I just think it would interesting to compare the sizes and the gloss of the finish. I have no interest in this locomotive but the rolling stock is intriguing.  If anyone breaks up these sets I might be interested in the hopper and or the caboose.

JHZ563:

An FYI on the hopper, etc.: these are Lionscale cars (former Weaver tooling to my understanding) and new-design trucks painted in a Tinplate manner, and they are shiny like Williams pieces from the 90's - very. They sure look like my Weaver stuff. So a Weaver hopper of the same type will give you a good idea of the structure.

The number boards, etc, are separately-applied pieces, a la Pre-War.

One thing: this hopper has add-on metal grab irons; not sure about the final-production Weaver version.

"I have no interest in this locomotive"

Best part of the set - truly striking.

FYI, these are not LionScale cars. These are existing Lionel cars and were made in China w/ the new truck design.

Brief update

With running the tire was pressed more into its grove so the shaking has really calmed down. The mechanism is quite smooth. 

The cast metal shell really helps the sound resonate. The bell sound is fantastic. 

The air hose was part culprit in the derailing in that it interfered with the coupler and limited its swing. I moved the air hose a bit out of the way and cured some of the derailing.

The three pieces of rolling stock do ok on their own. No problems with derailing or couplers letting go. However, once more rolling stock and/or passenger cars were added then there were derailment problems and problems with the couplers letting go. Due to the light weight of the rolling stock the locomotive can pull/push a car off a curve. 

The truck sides on the rolling stock are metal; however, the truck itself is mainly plastic so the cars are light weight. At the end of the train they do fine, but up front they can be pulled off curves. I added a couple of ounces over each truck and much better. 

Maybe should have had diecast metal trucks instead of the faux tinplare sides?

Does the engine have a high gloss? Hard to tell from the pictures. 

Read the post from WBC.  He explains the gloss finish in a matter of degrees if that helps.  It looks pretty shiny to me, if that helps.

Well, at least I kind of know now what 'prewar inspired' means.  It would seem the execution fell short of the inspiration.  Plastic tinplate repros just are hard to swallow for some reason.  But I'm no expert.  With maybe a standard gauge bias/snobbiness.  Enjoy what you like.  Best of luck with it.

Dave Olson posted:

FYI, these are not LionScale cars. These are existing Lionel cars and were made in China w/ the new truck design.

Dave, in case you're interested in some early feedback.... I've noticed a few times now where the rolling stock (included in the set) coupled closest to the S2 locomotive is very often pushed/pulled off the rails when riding on less than O-72 curves -- even though the locomotive itself is rated for O-36 curves.  I will try placing a die-cast hopper (not from the set) in that position, and report back on what happens.  But the lighter weight of the rolling stock may be a contributing factor for minor derailments, because the coupler of the S2 appears very firm -- not much play in it for a locomotive that's rated to handle O-36 curves.

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Dave Olson posted:

FYI, these are not LionScale cars. These are existing Lionel cars and were made in China w/ the new truck design.

Dave, in case you're interested in some early feedback.... I've noticed a few times now where the rolling stock (included in the set) coupled closest to the S2 locomotive is very often pushed/pulled off the rails when riding on less than O-72 curves -- even though the locomotive itself is rated for O-36 curves.  I will try placing a die-cast hopper (not from the set) in that position, and report back on what happens.  But the lighter weight of the rolling stock may be a contributing factor for minor derailments, because the coupler of the S2 appears very firm -- not much play in it for a locomotive that's rated to handle O-36 curves.

David

Okay, I'll test out my set here tomorrow and see if I can duplicate it.

Dave Olson posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Dave Olson posted:

FYI, these are not LionScale cars. These are existing Lionel cars and were made in China w/ the new truck design.

Dave, in case you're interested in some early feedback.... I've noticed a few times now where the rolling stock (included in the set) coupled closest to the S2 locomotive is very often pushed/pulled off the rails when riding on less than O-72 curves -- even though the locomotive itself is rated for O-36 curves.  I will try placing a die-cast hopper (not from the set) in that position, and report back on what happens.  But the lighter weight of the rolling stock may be a contributing factor for minor derailments, because the coupler of the S2 appears very firm -- not much play in it for a locomotive that's rated to handle O-36 curves.

David

Okay, I'll test out my set here tomorrow and see if I can duplicate it.

Dave, try it on an O-54 curve.  Just another thought... I'm also running on MTH ScaleTrax, so that has a fairly low-profile rail height.  But this is the first set of trains where I've encountered this issue.

WBC posted:

 

...

There are only 2 pick up rollers. ...   So going through Fastrack 048 switches as moderately slow speeds leads to...

....

The locomotive is really the star of the set. 

Which is precisely why I designed one loop on my new layout that contains basic straight and curved track components only -- no switches, crossings, etc...  This way there's always a route that can handle short locomotives, speeders or other types of small motorized units.  

Without a doubt, the locomotive is the star of this set.  Although, the hopper car is pretty cool too.  The shimmering effect of the coal load is cool -- considering it's not even real coal.  If anything, I'd love to see Lionel produce a 3-pack or 6-pack of these hoppers, so this train looks more like a train instead of an abbreviated set for premium dollars.  

David

I did a couple more tests with different cars directly behind the S2.  One with a regular PS-1 boxcar, and that too had its truck (coupled to the S2) pushed off the rails when entering the O-54 curve.  The second test employed a heavier die-cast hopper (from the Lionel NS Heritage series), and that ran through the O-54 curve like a champ.  So I think the issue is the S2's rear coupler firmness through curves COMBINED WITH the weight of the car coupled directly behind the S2.  Clearly, the die-cast hopper is somewhat out of place in the tinplate-inspired set -- both from a size and finish perspective.  But it gets the job done in terms of avoiding a derailment.

My next test would be to run the black S2 with several small NYC Pullman passenger cars (15"), which is what I originally envisioned running regularly on the lower-level route of my new layout when I ordered the black S2 earlier last year.  Keeping fingers crossed.     Worst-case scenario, I'll open up the car typically coupled to the S2 and add some weights to it. 

I have not tried mine on my 57" loop, but it would not run as a set on 42" curves. Any car behind the S2 is pulled off the track. So much for 036. I will try it tomorrow on the 57" loop, but for now made up a quick wire to link the engine and the hopper together with a bit of extra spacing and it is running on the 42" curves. I plan on making a spacer using two dummy knuckle couplers as a bit better solution. I like the looks and performance. Also look forward to some add on cars, but am still disappointed it wont run without tinkering with it. Not what I expect at that price.

Steve

WBC:

"The truck sides on the rolling stock are metal; however, the truck itself is mainly plastic so the cars are light weight. At the end of the train they do fine, but up front they can be pulled off curves. I added a couple of ounces over each truck and much better."

Good idea; I did not test mine in the middle of a train, and I have larger curves, so the dynamics are a bit more gentle. These cars indeed are a bit "plastic-truck-Weaver-light".

072 curves can mean some of these issues just never darken my door; if you can afford it in space or space utilization, use big curves. It's worth shortening a few straights to get the longer, kinder, gentler curves and switches.

The perfect railroad has no curves, no grades and no switches, you know.

--------

Dave Olsen:

Hey that is really nice... looks like a keeper. I am a scale guy and I am real close to pulling the trigger!

Can an additional roller be added to avoid the stall outs?

Here is the S2 pulling a 19 car train. The "inspired" rolling stock at the end of the train. I really like this locomotive; very pleased. 

There is one item to say about the caboose. I have bought cabooses from MTH, Lionel, and Atlas and in the dark the light shines through the plastic; tho it has been awhile since I have purchased a caboose. This caboose is dense enough where the light does not shine through the plastic in the dark. The light does shine through the doors a little bit, but not the main body.