I am in the middle of rebuilding a Lionel 700e 763 mashup. The E unit was bypassed but works fine, I just cleaned and rebuilt it. I have a wiring diagram but it is not clear exactly what wire goes to where in the actual locomotive.
Has anyone rewired on of these?
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That diagram is pretty self descriptive... Just take things methodically.
not really
Where is ground? the chassis?
The E-unit has a wire (for the solenoid) that goes to the case and one of the side fingers and then one that is free. If the free one goes to the switch on the engine, and then to ground isn't that just shorting out the solenoid?
The diagram doesn't show anything about one wire of the solenoid going to the chassis.
You got it! The ground is the chassis. Taking a look at the solenoid, you will see two tiny copper wires. One will go to a singular wire which is then optionally grounded to the locomotive chassis via the reversing switch/plug. The other little copper wire goes to a metal tab that acts as the "hot" bus. This is where the wire from the center pickup rollers is connected, along with the headlight lamp wire, and a wire going to the e-unit finger.
I just watched your Part 2 video (https://ogrforum.com/...75#77875232835973575).
In doing so, I'm not sure you got the e-unit wiring correct with respect to the solenoid wire that goes to the e-unit switch.
As for ground wires, there are none (except for between the e-unit and the e-unit switch, if you consider that a ground wire) - the components (field, headlight and such) are grounded through the chassis via their conductive mountings very much like automobiles.
As for the flexible coupling, I just wanted to make sure you have the superseded part number, Lionel 397-29 and well worth the purchase in my opinion.
Bmoran4, I was interested in your comment on the flexible coupling. I would have considered the 700E post 1938 coupling to be a far better coupling than the 397. Larger pins, more rubber. I did not think they used the same shaft size. Not at home now so I cannot check. The 700E coupling is attached with set screws, the 397 is a press fit. The 700E coupling is much easier to dissemble for maintenance. If this gentleman’s 763 has the 1937 coupling, it might be worth doing something with it. Changing to the 1938 style might be difficult as it requires a shorter shaft with the worm cut into it. Possible the flexible element could be changed to tougher, more modern material. Both the 1937, 1/8” thick, and the 1938, 1/4” thick, coupling elements are still available. If the loco is not going to see hard use, either should work fine.
In looking at your wiring diagram, it does not look very much like a 700E. I do not know if 763 and 700E were wired the same. Some Pre-War locomotives reverse the field, some reverse the armature. Did one of the field leads go to ground at the motor, ore did they both go forward to the e-unit. The 700E has a plug from the tender that goes to the brush plate. Socket on brush plate, wire with plug from tender. When the 700E runs on outside third rail one set of outside third rail shoes goes under the loco, the other goes under the tender. This is to get the shoes far enough apart to bridge gaps at switches and crossings. The 763 never came set up with outside third rail shoes, but I do not know if it had a plug from the tender.
The switch to turn the the e-unit on and off is on the brush plate, not at the e-unit. So, at least in the 700E, what there should be is a plug on the brush plate that has a wire that goes forward And connect to the wires coming from the two pick up rollers and the head light wire. There should be a second wire coming forward from the other side of the brush plate switch to the eunit coil. This is how the eunit is turned on and off. Other side of the e unit coil goes to ground.
The remaining wires should come from the eunit and go to the motor. You will have to deduce how they are connected depending on weather the eunit reverses the brushes or the field and weather the connection to the motor that does not go through the eunit is power or ground. If the loco has not been rewired the wires should be color coded. Black is power, green is field, yellow is brush holders. Due to age, colors may be hard to see. Look for color in the fuzz at the ends of the wire’s fabric cover.
My e-unit was bypassed and all wires had been cut, the wires are all black with the yellow wires being dark brown. I will be wiring it from scratch and I also found out that the wiring diagram I have is a generic lionel diagram.
@David Johnston, I'm referencing the flexible rubber coupling (700E-314), not the driving couplings (700E-312,313). I do know the the 773 used the 397-29 (I've visually checked mine). It is also referenced in the 1966 Lionel Service documents:
I recall various parts suppliers also show 700E comparability (as to which version, I presume 1938+ which is what the OP appears to have). OP indicated in his video that the original parts, while available, were expensive and so I offered this as a potential alternative should the OPs attempt at making one from on hand materials not fully deliver. Of course, least headache would be to obtain the correct size 700E-314.
For what it is worth, Lionel has posted a (terribly scanned) copy of the 700K assembly instructions:
https://www.lionelsupport.com/...5009242014142924.pdf
I do wish I had more 700/763s pass through my hands, but they are quite rare and don't always have one on hand to reference.
bmoran4 posted:@David Johnston, I'm referencing the flexible rubber coupling (700E-314), not the driving couplings (700E-312,313). I do know the the 773 used the 397-29 (I've visually checked mine). It is also referenced in the 1966 Lionel Service documents:
I recall various parts suppliers also show 700E comparability (as to which version, I presume 1938+ which is what the OP appears to have). OP indicated in his video that the original parts, while available, were expensive and so I offered this as a potential alternative should the OPs attempt at making one from on hand materials not fully deliver. Of course, least headache would be to obtain the correct size 700E-314.
For what it is worth, Lionel has posted a (terribly scanned) copy of the 700K assembly instructions:
https://www.lionelsupport.com/...5009242014142924.pdf
I do wish I had more 700/763s pass through my hands, but they are quite rare and don't always have one on hand to reference.
I was looking for those instructions and couldn't find them, thank you.
Now I know why the valve gear assembly don't work right and don't fit on the valve gear support.... There's parts missing!
The 763 did not have full valve gear. It was more like the postwar 773. Some of the valve gear parts in some of your photos were parts unique to the 763. I do not believe you can easily add full 700E valve gear to a 763 as some holes in the valve gear support are not drilled or threaded. In one place you talked about glue, a nut and showed a picture of a part with a wire through it. Nothing in the valve gear was glued. There were no nuts used. The part with the wire through it was hand rail stanchon and has nothing to do with the valve gear. You might be able to put 700E valve gear on a 763, but it would be a big job. You should look at the 1990 remake of the 700E, known as the 1-700E, Lionel model number 6-18005. Detail parts lists and drawings are on the Lionel web site. Look in the supplement index, which I believe is supelment 17. Many of the parts for this engine are still available and some are fully interchangeable with the 1937 version.
All the holes are there. The valve gear parts are there except for a linkage, I was wondering why it didn't fit right.
I know it was not supposed to be glued, the bolt in question was stripped and someone glued it together.
This whole thing is put together screwy.
When I complete the series I will do a wrap up video and go over everything I found.
Never look at a free Hudson in detail!
So I spent a couple hours trying to wire the unit. The diagram I posted is not for this locomotive.
I really need the correct wiring diagram. I tried following the description above but I think something is missing. I have the 700k instructions but it came wired and there is no wiring diagram in it.
I don't know if this will help but it's what I have. Dan
that is interesting, what is the E-unit plug supposed to do?
The e-unit plug replaced the brush plate switch on a few post war locos.
I just got home from a trip east, so now I can look at my 763 and describe the wiring. It is just like the 227 series of 0-6-0 switchers. When I refer to right and left, it is the locomotives right and left. To determine the right and left of a locomotive, standard on the track behind it, facing it. Your right is the locomotives right, other side it left.
There should be five wires in the sleeve from the ahead of the weight that goes back to the motor. Two of these wires are yellow, other three are black, or maybe one is green
The power connection uses the front collector roller terminal lug as the junction point. There should be one wire coming from the rear roller. There should be one wire coming from the head light. There should be one wire that goes from the terminal through the sleeve to the motor brush plate terminal that connects to the plug for the connection to the tender. This is the upper right terminal. One wire from the motor field also connects to this power terminal on the brush plate.
The switch lever on the brush plate connects the power terminal on the right side to a terminal on the left side. A black wire connects to the switch terminal on the left side and goes through the sleeve back forwarded to one end of the e-unit coil. The other end of the e-unit coil is connected to the e-unit frame, which goes to the outside rails through the loco frame.
On the e-unit drum contacts, there is a two terminal contact and a four terminal contact. The two terminal contact has one wire connected to it which comes from one of the brush holder terminals through the sleeve. This is one of the yellow wires. On mine this wire comes from the right brush holder, but it does not matter if the brush wires get reversed. The other brush holder from the left side, a yellow wire, goes to through the sleeve to the center fingers on the four finger contact. On the four finger contact the right finger connects to the e-unit frame same place as the e-unit coil connects. This is the common connection for the motor. The left connection on four finger terminal is a black (green?) wire and goes back through the sleeve to the motor and connect to the other field connection. This is the upper connection where there is an eyelet in the hard fiber coil form.
That is all the wires in the loco.
She's re-wired, schematic and video later.
The 773 is wired completely different. This drawing has nothing to do with a 773. You should take that 622 brush plate off the drawing. Is just serves to confuse.
Yes you are correct This is my drawing I modified the 773 drawing. Not sure what the 622 is I don't have a 622.
Many Lionel motors use a brush plate based around the molded plastic part that has a 622 mold number. The part number for the 773 brush plate is 622-140. The 773 motor has the field grounded at the motor and the hot side goes to the e-unit and to the brushes first. This is complete opposite of how the 763 motor is wired. The 763 brush plate is a fiber plate with a plug, switch, and several terminals on it. Not as complicated as some of the 227 family of switchers, but almost.
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