Lionel's first propose built standard gauge passenger cars.....the 1910 Pullman ...from early 1910

Carey Williams posted:

Hello all ....Lionel had been promising a passenger car in their new standard gauge line with their 1907 catalog .... the small company was struggling  with each new item in the line ...so the quick fix was grab a #3 trolley and paint it Pullman green and call it a day coach....  by 1910 the pressure was on to release a "real" passenger car ....so January 1910 in Playthings ...full page ad   the #6 pulling 3 Pullmans #1910, #1911, and #1912 .... same ad in February...and the cars were never seen again . June 1910 the more conventional 18, 19, &190 were running on the showroom layout .

The 1910 Pullmans were raced for display at the Toy Fair during February ..period ..the odd 1910 with no steps, wide spaced trucks , non operating doors ...and the floor just are push fit in ...did not cut it ...back to the drawing board .. PDQ to get some better cars out to sell . 

All this makes the 1910 Pullmans rather rare birds ...here you have a #6 struggling to pull 2 of them ...  3 cars probably not so much ..... on the original track ...as shown . 

Cheers Carey 

Neat cars! Interesting that the passageway diaphragms stick our a bit further and have the ribs on the side (mimicking the real thing), a feature unique to these cars?

Carey, thanks!  What a piece of history to find!   Do you think these were company prototypes or actual production pieces?

Strange location for trucks, IMO, but neat vestibules.

      John

That was amazing to see!  Thanks for sharing!

-Greg

Interesting "rare birds" indeed! If we recall, the early postwar 6400 series tinplate pullmans also had those curious end-mounted trucks! What is truly amazing is how those rather (dare I say?) primitive passenger cars later morphed into the magnificent and iconic State Cars! Stunning design evolution.

Carey Williams posted:

Hello all ....Lionel had been promising a passenger car in their new standard gauge line with their 1907 catalog .... the small company was struggling  with each new item in the line ...so the quick fix was grab a #3 trolley and paint it Pullman green and call it a day coach....  by 1910 the pressure was on to release a "real" passenger car ....so January 1910 in Playthings ...full page ad   the #6 pulling 3 Pullmans #1910, #1911, and #1912 .... same ad in February...and the cars were never seen again . June 1910 the more conventional 18, 19, &190 were running on the showroom layout .

The 1910 Pullmans were raced for display at the Toy Fair during February ..period ..the odd 1910 with no steps, wide spaced trucks , non operating doors ...and the floor just are push fit in ...did not cut it ...back to the drawing board .. PDQ to get some better cars out to sell . 

All this makes the 1910 Pullmans rather rare birds ...here you have a #6 struggling to pull 2 of them ...  3 cars probably not so much ..... on the original track ...as shown . 

Cheers Carey 

Carey,

John pointed out the diaphragms and rightfully so. I'm guessing that they are made out of cast metal (either as a separate added on piece or as part of the original casting/body of the car), because there is no way rubber would have survived to today?

Similar to Tinplate Art's noticing, the thing that stood out to me are what you described as "wide spaced trucks." Wow, if those trucks, that extend past the body of the car, were spaced out any farther they would be on the next car! 

Thanks for sharing.

Tom 

Hello all ...thank you for your kind words ....the standard Knobby cars of later 1910 also have the same type  vestibule construction ....the 1910 and the 18,19 &190 knobby cars ...simply have too many parts to effectively build in a production line .... lots and lots of soldering ....  following year 1911 you still have the mesh steps , still the red primer, but now the removable roofs ....mesh steps were too many parts so dump those for the single piece stamping with 3 holes , smooth vestibules ..drop the red primer use better paint   the the race is off ..  now the 18,19, & 190 can be cranked out cheaply and effectively....  hence the cars before 1912 very rare ...after 1912 common ...no castings ..just sheet metal 

here are a few of the knob cars ...high knobs mid 1910 ...medium / low end of 1910 

here is a link to see some knob cars being pulled by an early black primer 1912 ( early 1910) ...cars mid and late 1910 ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_-221KL1eE

Cheers carey 

Those cast diaphragms on those early cars were indeed a NICE touch, in spite of the "wide-spaced", (end-mounted?) trucks. That type of truck mounting on tinplate passenger cars persisted through the late 1930's and even into the early postwar years! Kind of like a Lionel "signature" design! LOL!

Thanks for sharing.  Very nice.

Hello all ...those vestibules ...are folded sheet metal NOT castings .......    cheers Carey  technically the  Pullmans should have been called the 1909 Pullmans ...but Lionel got kicked out of White St before production of the Pullmans began ....so delayed till late in 09 in New haven for Playthings ad in Jan 1910....  page from Playthings Feb 1909 

I have my grandfather's trains that he repainted many years ago. I would like to restore them to their original colors. Is there a store where I can purchase the original paints? Also I have many different cars and engines. Does anyone know what pieces originally went together as a set? I have attached two of the cars below. I haven't had much luck finding information about these cars online. 

I think you have a very early #19 combine

You might get a Greenberg's Guide and look at the variations in colors. 

You also might look inside the painted car and get a sense of that the original color might have been.  Dark Olive Green, Dark Orange and Mojave are possible colors.

Lettering may be available.

Came in late, the popcorn was sold out, but really enjoyed the video clip.

The sound of the train running on standard gauge track is pure music to tinplate ears!

Thanks for sharing.