Lionel's New 65' Mill Gondolas

naveenrajan posted:

I had to use Micro-Mark Kadee spacers to lower the couplers on these cars that I had converted to 2-rail as the couplers seemed a bit higher, when tested with the Kadee Height Gauge.

Also, using the spacer, also reduces the length of the screws (securing the Kadee coupler-box to the body of the car) that intrudes into the floor of the car but doesn’t completely prevent it. The screws that were shipped loose, with these cars, were slightly longer than 3/8” & that wouldn’t have solved this issue either.

Naveen, I've run into the "finding-the-right screw-length issue" several times in the past when working with Kadee coupler boxes and shims.

In cases where the screw is just slightly too long (and the next shorter-length screw is too short!), I've added a tiny washer (or two) under the screw head--between it and the coupler box.  

This serves to shorten the screw just enough to prevent it from protruding through the floor...or end platform on cabooses and engines.

I purchase the tiny washers from Micro Fasteners and keep a supply of various sizes (i.e. 2-56, 4-40, etc.) on hand at all times.

If the "thumbtack" uncoupler tab is hitting the center rail of the tracks, then the track grade change is extreme and needs to be corrected. These couplers can not droop down unless the screw is missing. Then the whole truck will fall off. 

Andrew

   Just looking I know rhe position of that coupler tack would cause issues on some grade's transitions.

 On shorteng small machine screws: take a close look a some common plier type wire strippers. On many, you'll see threaded holes. These are for cutting screws to length and work surprisingly well. Often better than the wire sripper portion.

  I usually trim them two threads long and file or grind the cut's pinch on the tip properly, especially on fine threads, but not always. The cuts just vary a lot in how much the pinch changes the tips threads.  The screw's go into the threaded half of the pliers first. These threads keep the screws threads straight.Backing the screw out after the cut also ensures they are ok too. But the lead thread is often jagged and needs filing to start well.

It simplifies supplies too. When I buy hadware under 1/4" dia. I just buy one big box of the long ones for each number & thread, most in pan head, and some common V head sizes,, then clip and trim them as needed. If you search a bit, you can find metric pairss A sloppier cut is still possible in an oversized hole but likely needing fileing/grinding to get it to start into nut threads again.

SDIV Tim posted:

Has anyone had issues with these cars shorting out tracks? My buddy said that he has seen a couple get returned to his shop he is working at saying they kept shorting out. 

Still unsure how the thumbtack shorts anything if the truck is now made of plastic.

Who will be the first to post a video specifically of the Mill Gondolas in a moving train on YouTube? 

Andrew

SP 365128 is a real mill gondola that passed through Michigan in a CN freight train on September 28th.

That SP gondola appears to be identical to the model shown in the Catalog. 

Andrew

Thats a Thrall built gondola similar but not the same,just saying.

Considering how few modern gondolas have been mass produced in O scale, the only other option is to get blueprints and spend weeks assembling exact models. 

Andrew

Can anyone give me an inside width measurement of this gon?

The Lionel car is based on the Greenbriar Ind 66' mill gondola as built for CSX, the 66' designation is based on the interior length in 1/4 " that should be 16 1/2". The O gauge MFGs today pick a single prototype to build there models on and in most if not all cases they have a very limited number of paint schemes that are accurate for that prototype as a result a number of other paint schemes have to be offered to make the model a viable seller. In HOs much larger market we see a big growth in highly accurate prototype specific models. Today there are a small number of RR car MFGs who build these very cars all with their own engineering dept styles even Greenbriar  may make a noticeable design change in later builds.

Big Jim posted:

Can anyone give me an inside width measurement of this gon?

If no one else does, can later today.

The prototype is 9' interior dimension = 2 1/4" in O scale, I would think with all new tooling for this car Lionel should be reasonably accurate [ no glaring errors] JMO

These cars measure 2 1/4" x 16 1/2" inside dimensions.  

Thank you Jeff.

As usual Jeff is spot on. The depth is just over 1-5/16 deep on my stone age ruler.

Since the new mill gondola is 65' or 66' long then the 1968 scheme for the ILLINOIS CENTRAL's IC 97350-97499 65' gondolas built by Bethlehem Steel can be applied to these O scale models. If you can find builder's photos from 1968, then you can reproduce accurate graphics. 

The CN/IC is still using these gondolas. Many have been repainted in the CN/IC scheme in Illinois. 

Andrew

You can have these gondolas made in the IC / CN scheme some day. 

Andrew

Has anyone seen the latest run of these from the 2017 volume 2 book, or been notified of them being shipped? Charles Ro shows them with a due date of today.

Thank you

Bill

Will the Weaver trucks work on these ?    I have a bunch of them. 

Don’t they come with Weaver trucks?

Nice cars, but I won't be buying any until Lionel goes back to installing their industry leading die-cast sprung trucks and couplers with the hidden uncoupling tabs on their freight and passenger cars. No cars for me with the cheap, ugly and less functional thumb-tack trucks and couplers. So disappointing to see a great company like Lionel take a significant step backwards regarding quality of the product. 

irish rifle posted:

Nice cars, but I won't be buying any until Lionel goes back to installing their industry leading die-cast sprung trucks and couplers with the hidden uncoupling tabs on their freight and passenger cars. No cars for me with the cheap, ugly and less functional thumb-tack trucks and couplers. So disappointing to see a great company like Lionel take a significant step backwards regarding quality of the product. 

My thoughts exactly. Not buying anything with the new trucks. Definitely not an improvement.

NSBill posted:

Has anyone seen the latest run of these from the 2017 volume 2 book, or been notified of them being shipped? Charles Ro shows them with a due date of today.

Thank you

Bill

Bill, Train World shows release date 06/29/18

GLENN L. TAYLOR posted:

NSBill posted:

Has anyone seen the latest run of these from the 2017 volume 2 book, or been notified of them being shipped? Charles Ro shows them with a due date of today.

Thank you

Bill

Bill, Train World shows release date 06/29/18

Ok, thank you!

Bill

clem k posted:

Will the Weaver trucks work on these ?    I have a bunch of them. 

Matt Makens posted:

Don’t they come with Weaver trucks?

No. The bolsters for the Lionel Scale cars are different than for the LionScale cars. They also have different ride heights.

BRIAN WHITE posted:

irish rifle posted:

Nice cars, but I won't be buying any until Lionel goes back to installing their industry leading die-cast sprung trucks and couplers with the hidden uncoupling tabs on their freight and passenger cars. No cars for me with the cheap, ugly and less functional thumb-tack trucks and couplers. So disappointing to see a great company like Lionel take a significant step backwards regarding quality of the product. 

My thoughts exactly. Not buying anything with the new trucks. Definitely not an improvement.

Yep I agree too.

It’s been so long, but I recall I was told earlier by David Olsen on the LionScale Modern Boxcar thread that the LionScale and these gondolas can be switched out with the hidden uncoupling trucks.

I just don’t know what part I need to buy unless it’s as simple as those trucks in the back of the catalog.

Dave, Lionel should consider changing the trucks back. The new truck has been the deciding factor in my decision not to purchase new freight rolling stock. Lots of other people have done the same. I left three gons with my dealer because of them and cancelled the rest of the freight cars I had on order. Lionel can and has done better than those trucks.

I agree with you Matt, the older Lionel trucks with couplers with the hidden tab were much better.  Also, the Quality on the engines and cars needs to be much improved...No more BTO, as I need to see the product in person, then Pay...I just retired and want quality over quantity.  

The trucks on all my future freight purchases will have to be top grade. I will no longer purchase a freight car with molded doors or trucks that have plastic anything. Done.

Dave Olson posted:

clem k posted:

Will the Weaver trucks work on these ?    I have a bunch of them. 

Matt Makens posted:

Don’t they come with Weaver trucks?

No. The bolsters for the Lionel Scale cars are different than for the LionScale cars. They also have different ride heights.

Thanks Dave: but now I'm confused,  What is LionScale and Lionel Scale ??

Clem

Matt Makens posted:

Dave, Lionel should consider changing the trucks back. The new truck has been the deciding factor in my decision not to purchase new freight rolling stock. Lots of other people have done the same. I left three gons with my dealer because of them and cancelled the rest of the freight cars I had on order. Lionel can and has done better than those trucks.

Matt - my feelings exactly and I know many others feel the same way. We are essentially shut out of the new products and will have to buy old new stock until Lionel reverses direction.

Dave Olson - Please come through for us and get Lionel back on the right track concerning this issue. Taking such an action will be a huge win for Lionel, your dealers and your customers!

There were similar gondolas built in the past. 

Here is a Chesapeake & Ohio gondola from the rr-fallenflags.org website. 

Andrew

Matt Makens posted:

Dave, Lionel should consider changing the trucks back. The new truck has been the deciding factor in my decision not to purchase new freight rolling stock. Lots of other people have done the same. I left three gons with my dealer because of them and cancelled the rest of the freight cars I had on order. Lionel can and has done better than those trucks.

Absolutely correct!!!   No question about it!!!!!

clem k posted:

Dave Olson posted:

clem k posted:

Will the Weaver trucks work on these ?    I have a bunch of them. 

Matt Makens posted:

Don’t they come with Weaver trucks?

No. The bolsters for the Lionel Scale cars are different than for the LionScale cars. They also have different ride heights.

Thanks Dave: but now I'm confused,  What is LionScale and Lionel Scale ??

Clem

Currently:

Lionel "Scale" cars are as described. Scale models produced for and sold by Lionel.

"LionScale" cars are currently cars manufactured with the old Weaver tooling Lionel purchased.

Somebody at LIONEL has to find builder's photos from Greenville Steel Car Co.. 

Greenville Steel Car employees built similar 65' 7" long gondolas during the 1970's. 

Seaboard Coast Line is a railroad scheme to produce soon.

SCL series 133900-133999 built by Greenville Steel Car.

Andrew

Then when they find the photos, they shoudl put the old trucks back on

High-end trucks with the swinging couplers and the magnetic uncoupler tabs under the trucks are the ones we need on the O scale freight cars. 

Andrew

Matt Makens posted:

Then when they find the photos, they shoudl put the old trucks back on

Matt:

Are you referring to Lionel's prior longstanding industry-leading die-cast sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs? Aren't they the ones Lionel abandoned recently, which disenfranchised most of their customer base and led many customers to stop purchasing their scale freight and passenger cars? Thanks.

Pat  

Why yes Pat, yes I am.

The real trajedy here is that even Menards has nicer trucks on their cars than Lionel does now. I passed on all those LED boxcars for $100 cuz they would have those trucks