NEW! LIONEL SCALE HOPPER CARS!

I think I'm gonna faint!  CB&Q????

 

ChipR

I have both the PRR Sets on order.....

Abandoned?  Seems a little dramatic.  We don't know what MTH has in store, but as always, one can always change the channel if he doesn't like the show he's watching.

Billpas, these cars look like they will be really nice!  Thanks for posting the detailed product description.

Martin, I don't understand your need to take what started out as a very positive thread about a new product release and then sour it by taking a shot at MTH?  MTH has nothing to do with this particular thread.  But then again, you knew that.

 

We've also addressed another little detail that is sure to please many of the prototype-focused modelers; the "Built by Lionel" date stencil has been moved to the underside of the car. It's still there for the collectors, but won't detract from the rest of the graphics which have all been carefully researched from prototype photos.

Outstanding!  It's about time Lionel made this change on their scale rolling stock. 

 

Outstanding in deed and it would be even better if they were to make scale wheel trucks available.

 

Allan

it would be even better if they were to make scale wheel trucks available.

Let's not rush things :-) Rejoice that Lionel is coming up on the learning curve.

Now, if they were available to buy....

The body drawing looks good and hiding "built by Lionel" is a step in the right direction.  I hope they do some research and get PRR's freight car color right.  The dark brown used on the Lionel round roof X31 box cars was just wrong.  The PRRT&HS Paint Committee has worked the issue hard to recommend formulations that are era appropriate as fresh out of the shops freight car color became darker in the 50's when synthetic pigments came into use.

 

Ed Rappe 

 

Ed Rappe

Ed,

 

I wonder how easy it'll be to put your 2-rail trucks on these?  Here's Lionel's chance to really shine by making it 3-rail/2-rail convertible

FYI - the newly repainted G21 gondola in the background of my avatar was done by the Western Maryland Scenic Railway this past year based on PRRT&HS research.  The picture was taken in May at the WMSR shops during an outing by the Ford's Colony Model Railroad Club (Williamsburg, VA).  Note the effect of shadows on the perceived  color of PRR Freight Car Color.

 

Ed Rappe

I suppose all this design and planning should be noted by those who groan that all Lionel does is import trains made by others. 

They look great, but I can't stomach that price.

I actually like the fact that these hoppers will have plastic bodies. The previous diecast hoppers are problematic with regard to pulling over other cars around sharp curves, and I expect these new ones will play nicer.

Lionel a day late and dollar short... I am a Atlas O fright car guy.....

A new O scale freight car with accurate and flexible tooling, this is great news.  It looks like the O Scale Freight Car Guide to 50 and 55 ton hoppers will be getting an update in a few months. 

 

Anyone want to give a breakdown on the prototype history for each road?  Road numbers?

 

Dave

 

Why don't you get right on it and report back? 

 

The CB&Q USRA hoppers were around for a long time.  I'm not sure about the late 60s but into the 60s is likely.  I will report back on the CB&Q prototypes.

 

Lionel a day late and dollar short... I am a Atlas O fright car guy.....

 

Drew

 

It is your railroad, run it any way you want.  But, if you do, you will be missing out on some very nice models from Lionel, MTH and Weaver.  All four manufacturers have some older tooling that is less detailed and all four manufacturers make some cars that are not prototypically accurate.  And all four make some wonderful models.  Take a look at them all and see what fits your era, favorite railroad and sense of value for price, detail and durability.  This looks like a great effort from Lionel.

 

They look great, but I can't stomach that price.

 

The price of the Lionel hoppers is in line with the latest run of AAR box cars from Atlas and these Lionel hoppers are form new tooling.  If you don't like the price talk to the Fed about monetary policy.

 

OR

 

Consider that they are as well detailed as a brass car at three or more times the price and will likely operate much more reliably and shed fewer parts along the way.

 

These look like they will be very good cars at a fair market price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A little history of these cars with the Pennsy I found:

 

"In 1898, Pressed Steel Car Co. built the first all-steel hopper car designated the GL. The Pennsylvania Railroad would purchase several thousand of this design. Due to production backlogs at P.S.C.Co. and flaws in the initial design, the Penny came up with its own all-steel, bottom-discharge hopper car in 1904 designated the GLa. Approximately 30,000 GLas were produced between 1904 and 1920. The Pennsy also built Glas for numerous coal companies who were anxious for the well-built and reasonably priced cars. Until the 1960s, this design was one of the three most numerous classes of PRR freight cars. Although by this time, these cars began to rapidly disappear from the PRR roster, a few made it into the Penn Central and even Conrail rosters, lasting into the early 1980s."

 

I found a reference showing cars in service and it appears there were still at least 239 of them in service with the Pennsy/PC as of April 1968. Other comments by several folks:

 

"There were over 25,000 of them still around in 1955, but by 1959 the numbers dropped off rapidly, until there were only 231 left in 1970 (which were in maintenance-of-way service only). The last one disappeared from the roster in 1981."

 

"I'm surprised by the numbers of the ancient GLa class, built before WWI, that were in active service: 3,410 in 1965, 231 in 1970, and 77 in 1973."

 

(Talking about 2-bay coal hoppers, not necessarily GLas): "The CB&Q's survived into the 1970s, including some of the "War Emergency" composite cars.  Some of the last survivors were in eastern Washington in sugar beet service, at least until the bottom fell out of one too many."

 

While it's nice to see the ability to mount KD couplers, I'm just a little more interested as to whether these cars are actually scale and accurate.

 

 

Martin

 

The pre-production drawings looks spot on for a PRR GLA.  I have quite a few brass ones (PSC, Yoder, Keystone Model Works) but will add a few more, probably in Berwind-White - they can't mess up the color black.  If Lionel gets the freight car color right I'll pick up some PRR ones as well.   Whether they will be an accurate renditions of a USRA twin - I have my doubts as there are quite a few differences between a GLA and the USRA design. The biggest difference is that the GLA is noticeably lower and has a different end sill.  Those looking for a very nice USRA twin hopper should check out the AtlasO model. 

 

 As far as trucks go 2 railing Lionel scale cars is always a one-off project as they generally don't' have body bolsters, and stacks of washers take away from the look of a well detailed car.  On the beautiful Lionel PFE R40-23 reefers I completely replaced the underframes with ones from Intermountain PFE R40-10 reefers. If the Lionel 2DF8 trucks look good I'll probably try to install 2 rail wheel sets in them.  The deciding issue fo me will be if they appear too wide relative to the body.  This is a similar issue 2 railers have faced (until recently) with over-width AtlasO trucks. 

 

I see Lionel's( and MTH's) moves to offer prototypically modeled scale rolling stock as a very positive move for the hobby. 

 

Ed Rappe   

It looks like a fantastic car......I'd love to have a string of them on my layout. But at $75 a pop I'll have to stick to my 'incorrect' K-Line die cast hoppers Trainworld blew out years ago for $20 each. As I get older.....what I'll pay seems to get lower!

Thanks, Ed.  We both know that pre-production does not always translate to the final product, but I fully agree that they probably will not mess up the color black,   I would, of course, be happy with some that are undecorated or at least w/o the PRR lettering so that I can put on CVRR instead.  I do have the lettering diagram from the CVRR for their hopper cars rolled up on a shelf.

 

Bolsters I can make and cast in resin; trucks that are too wide and thinning sideframes is more difficult.

 

We can be hopeful indeed that these deliver as advertised.  These cars would seem to be a good choice.

I am in for two sets maybe I will get a double set of the same numbers and add a digit. These will look great with the H21 Atlas hoppers. 

Thank you Lionel for keeping the hobby strong and looking good with your great inovations!

 

This is still the golden age!

 

John

They look great, but I can't stomach that price.

You should be able to buy them for less than MSRP.

 

Or, you can kitbash an Intermountain USRA twin-bay hopper into a semi-accurate replica. Cut down the side height by 8", fabricate new ends: sill and braces to start. So you've saved maybe $30 per car. I'd guess you're working for one or two bucks an hour. I have better uses for my time making equipment that I cannot buy or improving R-T-R equipment.

 

Fitting KD's and two-railing the Lionel units will add time expense to the cost, though.

 

PRR had more of the GlA hoppers than the H21's back in the day. I'm saving for three sets-and informing family about my desired Christmas, Birthday, and Fathers' day gift desires.

Rex, I just made a bet to myself and I won, I knew you be in for a hopper full of them. Pun intended.

 

PS, I got the P7e, it is on its way.

John

Another way to keep costs down on R-T-R models:  Provide optional add on detail kits

 

Not every one needs a "super detailed" railcar with very fragile details, especially those who like operating long trains.   However for those who want a very detailed "display only" model the manufacturer could supply a "more fragile" add on parts kit. These parts could be merely "snapped" into place (no gluing). This approach might keep the cost at retail much lower.

 

This has been a very popular approach in other scales.

Ed said:

 

As far as trucks go 2 railing Lionel scale cars is always a one-off project as they generally don't' have body bolsters, and stacks of washers take away from the look of a well detailed car.

 

Martin said:

 

Bolsters I can make and cast in resin; trucks that are too wide and thinning sideframes is more difficult.

 

Exactly, and here's Lionel's chance to take that leap and do it right.  We shouldn't have to make our own gadgets to do this, it should be simple to make it so all that needs to be done is to swap out trucks/wheels.

 

I say that, but what would really be involved, making a set of drop-in bolsters of different heights?  There's no reason they have to be molded onto some other part of the underframe.

Well,

Perfect or not,I'll get a couple to mix with my PRR H21 hoppers.

 

Norm

 

When, O when are we going to actually see these in stores, on-line?

I see from Lionel's catalog that the lettering is post-1952 (Keystone scheme). Aaagh. By then the Gla cars were disappearing from the PRR roster. Looks like I have to either a) repaint or hopefully b) get them unpainted.

Life can be hard

Rex,

 

Lionel cataloged the new hoppers in 3 paint schemes:

PRR pre-1954 ball keystone

PRR 1954 and later shadow keystone

Berwind

 

They did not catalog an undecorated version.

I sure hope these hoppers turn out as nice as promised. (Correct paint color on the ball keystone ones, please. 

 

Lionel, Can I ask for the next freight car project to be a spot on UTLX X3 tankcar ?

Ooops. Missed the hoppers with the M-1 train set.

I agree about paint color on the ball keystone hoppers, but, maybe, if the color is not so good (there are as many interpretations of PRR FCC as there are "experts") some heavy weathering can compensate.

It will be interesting to see how these cars compare to the intermountain usra as well as atlas o car design. 
I would like to see the n&w h2 hopper cats with the of set top ends. The prr leased these from the n&w as well.

If it's not die cast body I will pass.

"Not every one needs a "super detailed" railcar with very fragile details, especially those who like operating long trains.   However for those who want a very detailed "display only" model the manufacturer could supply a "more fragile" add on parts kit. These parts could be merely "snapped" into place (no gluing). This approach might keep the cost at retail much lower."

 

   In the past manufacturers( other than limited production brass) mostly built less detailed cars that more folks could afford then detail companies supplied extra details for the modelers who wanted to add them.  Now the manufacturers seem to be catering to the high income folks who don't have the skill or desire to upgrade more modest products. I think this can only end bad for the hobby as older modelers die off and younger one's can't afford the premium products. Of course Lionel will probably be sold to new owners by then so this management don't care about the distant future?

As for the built by Lionel on the side of the car I'm gonna miss it, here's an '03 product for instance.....DaveB

That's OK too. Most of us don't really want those heavy die-cast freight cars. Besides, they tend to be much more difficult to up-grade to Kadee couplers anyway.

They will not be diecast. No freight car should be diecast IMO. 

Seems like L has done enough toy train die cast already to satisfy the die cast crowd, what's wrong with L trying to do highly detailed scale models in plastic in an attempt to gain more market?

Nothing.  The more realistic they make these things the better for 2-railers.  Pretty soon you guys will start wanting accurate underframes and trucks, and then we will merge.

 

Won't help me, though - all my trains are metal or wood.