Lionel Transformer Horn and Bell not working

Hi,

It could be the red and black power wires are not hooked up to the correct rails.

 

Try cleaning the track and wheels thoroughly.  Dirty rails can interfere with the half wave signals getting to the horn/bell circuitry... 

reverse the leads to your transformer

Hey Roger,

A few year's ago, I bought a brand-new CW-80 at my local hobby shop.  It still works perfect to this day.  

A month or so ago, I bought a USED CW-80 at same shop.  It has behaved rather strangely since I brought it home.  The "whistle" button works fine at first.  When I press the "bell" button, 3 or 4 seconds elapse before the bell starts ringing.  Then, pressing it again, another 3 or 4 seconds elapse before it shuts off.  The "direction" button is only good for about one or two direction changes, then it seems to quit working (while leaving my loco stuck in neutral).  And rendering the whistle and bell inoperative at the same time.  Most of the time.  Sometimes, raising and lowering the throttle lever a few times will get the loco moving again.  And sometimes it won't.  About the only thing I can do is to shut the power off, wait several minutes, then turn it back on again.

Apparently, the circuitry is somewhat scrambled in this "used" transformer of mine.  Hopefully, an electronic component hasn't gone bad in yours while sitting in storage.  But you never know.

I think if you change leads, it just reverses what the buttons do. They should still work.

It stated above .... no whistle, no bell. So I have to assume you have both. But one or the other should work if functional. Are other sounds present? Have you added any diode or led circuits recently? It points to the CWs circuit really. Something bell or whistle button should work even a horn/whistle alone if reversed. Any diodes around 4a or bigger to play with?

Unplug it and let it sit overnight too.  Sometimes electronics do scramble after a long period without powerup, I think it has to with cap recharging speeds and intitiating chip sections , but the parts CAN forget their jobs at times. But many will revert to default after the "Duh" moment and remember what to do the next time.  Kinda like rebooting a computer, but more uncommon. Sometimes the scamble is permanent though. I've had it happen three four tumes then never again. But it repeats too often something ison the way out.

The track is brand new, and the trains have not be run much at all.

So, I have tried the other items above, and with two different locomotives:
-   Reverse the leads
-   Unplug and let set

I get the same results. No horn, and no whistle.

What I have noticed, however, is that when running at slow speeds, pressing either the horn or whistle button seems to try to make the loco's go faster.

I then disconnected the CW-80, and hooked up my RailKing Z-750, and to my surprise, I get the exact same results, no horn, no whistle, and pressing those buttons seems to try to make the loco's go faster.

Strange how these all worked perfectly a couple of years ago, and now this, and with two completely different conventional transformers, and with two completely different locomotives.

BTW, I bought the Z-750 abut a year ago.

I'm stumped.   The best way to troubleshoot is with a known good transformer or loco,  and it would appear you have neither.   Silly question:  Do you have access to an oscilloscope?   

The acceleration bit is normal;  postwar locos required a power boost when the whistle coil and whistle motor started sucking power down.   

Mitch 

It points more to the locos at this point if a boost is being seen. It could still go either way though.

A meter could read the offset voltage too.  

 List locos and tenders exactly by number.. The inards vary. The type of relay, can motor air whistle, or all eletronic from a speaker only. etc.

You've run out of selfexplanitory causes. It's time to explore, send it out for repair or buy new....but what to buy,?   I think a local club, hobby shop or person who has equipment is the only way to know otherwise.  

I will take them to my local model train hobby shop to check out.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.

Roger

Adriatic posted:

It points more to the locos at this point if a boost is being seen. It could still go either way though.

A meter could read the offset voltage too.  

 List locos and tenders exactly by number.. The inards vary. The type of relay, can motor air whistle, or all eletronic from a speaker only. etc.

You've run out of selfexplanitory causes. It's time to explore, send it out for repair or buy new....but what to buy,?   I think a local club, hobby shop or person who has equipment is the only way to know otherwise.  

OK, I thought that I had done this already, and would almost swear to it, but I have not set up with the MTH Z-1000 brick and controller and all locos seem to be operation correctly, bell and horn operation just fine.

It just be something in the CW-80 transformer. I will take it in to the shop and have it checked out.

It may not make a difference having it serviced (? 50/50 I guess). Some locos are fickle though; wanting to see the offset voltage presented in a certain way, even among electronics. 

  I have two boards that won't trigger on old transformers and two post war that won't trigger on diodes. I keep a heavy diode button inline from the old transformers for the work around.

It may be that simple. Add an external setup that does work. The button might be the expensive part

The odd thing is that they all worked with the CW-80 when I put everything away about a year ago.
Then when I set back up, no go.

I don't think that I will be using it to run trains anyway.
Probably relegated to accessories of one type or another.

I am not, necessarily going to have it serviced, but I would just like it tested on his test track.

I have a similar problem with a CW 80 I have. the bell output stopped and it looks like that is controlled by the processor it did work before so I think if it’s the processor it’s not worth trying to fix. any input from anyone on this?

I've seen some of the micro-switches fail on the CW-80, but it isn't cost effective to have serviced/repaired. The astute and determined may get the special screw driver and purchase equivalent micro-switches (after validating the switch is faulty by jumping the leads)

This picture shows the micro-switches. This thread discusses the tools and process for opening the CW-80 up: https://ogrforum.com/...80-disassembly-tools

I have the T27 screwdriver tip and opened the CW 80 transformers before to replace the cooling fan and triacs but from one i’ve seen the bell switch can’t do anything without the input from the main chip at least that’s what I saw on a schematic. these transformers are not really that bad unless you try to run too much stuff