Long Passenger trains

My longest trains are my tribute to Robert Kennedy Funeral train, 2x scale PC GG1, 1x Celestory Baggage, 10x MTH 72' streamliners and 1x K-line 120 Observation. That's pretty big, but about 20 cars short of the real train. And my MTH Orient Express, with 10 Premier OE cars, and they are about 85 scale feet each is also a model monster.

Next month, we are holidaying on two very famous Australian trains, "The Indian Pacific" and "The Ghan", they are both nearly a mile long.

BTW, I have a set of 4 MTH Premier ribbed streamliners, in B&O, very nice cars, (not for sale), but the B&O is a favorite livery of mine.

That is a fine train, my friend!  I have a couple tough grades so I thought 12 cars might be my limit.  I have the Lionel F-units, so I thought I would stay with some Lionel smoothside cars.  I still could use some more cars!

It surprised me how few cars it took to make a long (a relative term, no doubt) train for my layout. When I considered a number, like fourteen or twelve, such an amount seemed right and do-able. However, once I began buying the cars and coupling them to the locomotive, I stopped buying at less a total number than I had imagined. In these photos, you can see the train stretched out on the longest straight line on the layout, and even there, the complete train cannot fit in the photo, or before it is already into a curve. Of course, other hobbyists may have longer straight runs of track and can see a full train stretched out before them. I don't know if that is your desire rimportant to you. Considering my experience may be helpful for you in making your decision.

Frank.....those are beautiful scenes....your modeling is always an inspiration...

Thanks,

Alan

Thank you, Alan. I play there, or play (craft) because of it, just about every day.

Frank

A visit to your Blog is a very enjoyable, interesting adventure. You are one cool railroader!

The 1949 Broadway limited

One 18" headend car

eleven 21" scale lightweight cars

Five passenger cars are no where near enough. 2 car add ons make it better. Good is buying two sets and running them together. Best is finding more matching cars at York for your two sets.

I run long trains at the club. Usually two baggage cars for some reason.

Yes, Frank, beautiful shots, I love your layout too. You are correct in what you say, even most very large layouts are just nowhere near scale proportion of the real world, so much smaller trains are going to look fine. As I said in my first post, I'm traveling on a real train that's nearly a mile long next month, trying to model something like that is totally impractical. I don't think even the NJ Hirailers could run something like that.

i run trains of 10-12 scale length cars (18" heavyweights or 21" streamliners) on our museum layout. With a 3-unit diesel or a big Northern on point, that adds up to a train around 16-20 feet long. That's with long straights and wide curves. Here's a Weaver Milwaukee Road Northern with 10 K-Line cars - two express boxcars and eight 72-foot heavyweights.

I'm working on a scaled-down version of the Amtrak Auto Train. I had 9 Superliners and 13 autoracks (out of 13+15) assembled on my test track when I discovered the coaches drew so much power for their lights that a single powered Genesis couldn't budge the train. (the Z4000's voltage actually started to drop as I neared max output before aborting the run)

There is an ongoing project to change the cars over to LED lighting and possibly modify a Williams Genesis' reverse board to operate "neutral first" so it can doublehead with another MTH unit.

---PCJ

My longest has been fifteen 18" cars pulled by my Lionel N&W 1218. All the N&W passenger rolling stock I own.... I view this as almost prototypical. Once you break the 20 passenger car mark, I'd call that a long train....

Jim,

To me, it all depends on the size of the layout.

My layout is approx 12x12 with (according to my DCS handheld) a mainline of 1/3 mile.  I have a 5-car train that IMO is almost too long, it takes up almost 1/4 of that distance.  At running speed it doesn't take long for it to make the loop.

My passenger train is modeled after the Seaboard's "The Tidewater" that ran from Portsmouth to Raleigh.  It was normally a 6-car train pulled by an E7:

1) RPO-Baggage          Heavyweight, ACF

2) Dining Car              Heavyweight (227, 240)

3) Coach                    Heavyweight or Lightweight (52-seat Budd) (6219)

4) Sleeper          Lightweight (5-1-4-4) Budd

5) Sleeper          Lightweight  (5-1-4-4) Budd

6) Coach                    Heavyweight or Lightweight (52-seat Budd) (6219)

Here's an old photo of my train with a REA boxcar attached:

I've seen photos of the train that consisted of 2 E7s and a single coach, I guess the RR knew to add cars on an as needed demand.

Larry Goolsby's book "Seaboard Air Line Passenger Service, The Streamlined Era" lists consists for a number of trains.  On page 142 he lists the consist for SAL #10 PALMLAND (Dec 1964) - 4 engines, 35 cars.  A note says this was the longest known SAL passenger train of the period( triple the length of the typical PALMLAND), mainly due to holiday mail and deadheaded cars.

I have a couple of other books on passenger trains that list various consists from different RRs.  It's interesting to see the mix of cars from multiple RRs being pulled by, say a PRR GG1.  I know SAL had cars painted in other RRs paint scheme to match certain named trains.

I guess there's a formula that could be used to determine what length train looks most appealing to the eye in a given area, but I'll let the engineers work on that

I'm thinking that if you want to run a good consist, you will probably want to join a club that has a large layout.  The modular groups are good to because they set up some really long runs that showcase this kind of train well.

Are you thinking about what is "too big" to run at home?  How long is your mainline run?  As Bob said, even a 12x12 has a short train chasing it's tail.

I guess I've never met a passenger car I didn't like.  My layout is 60ftx20ft.  so, I could probably put 20 cars on.  But I have this grade, with a curve at the top!

I'm still looking for those B&O (Lionel) cars.

I've envisioned long passenger trains for our AT&SF but as mentioned above, the size of the loops limits the illusion. Our layout is 24 x 16 (.75 scale mile) so an ABA running with 6 or 7 cars is getting too long.

For a steam consist we have a nice mix of Lionel's scale milk cars, REA reefers and three or four kinds of baggage and mail cars plus numerous heavyweights to make up a 12 - 16 car train but it is way too big to look right.

Also have a nice Santa Fe 5 car DAP set with two extra vista domes and a full dome to be pulled by our AA E6s, PA's (ABBA), F3's (ABBA), or DL 109/110. That's a long train for us!

Running nothing right now on dirty,disrupted trackage. But earlier, on my severely downsized layout to a 9x16, I was running only 4 car consists with a 4-6-2, 4-8-2  or single A unit as power--and, I run much slower than on former 5 track,14x32 mainlines.

I now have to pretend it is a mini-consist such as a Local or the short "Carolina Special" on the Asheville run--over Saluda from Spartanburg or, on the Swananoa Loops out of Asheville to Salisbury[often with a 2-10-2 pushing].

My little operation will make more sense when my A&Y 4-6-0 is redone and hitched only to a Combine plus 1-2 Coaches. Freights are now only 7-8 units including Cab Car with a 2-8-0 [or RS-3 if a "stinking dismal diesel" is necessary].

Bob

That might pretty Seaboard A unit could easily handle 8-9 Lightweights on the Road's flat to rolling terrain.

Wow Sam, great looking Viaducts flanking the Hel*Gate. Did I understand correctly that you are planning to dismantle the layout and relocate?

There's something especially gratifying in hearing such nice words from you, David. Thank you. 

It would be nice to say hello to you in person if you do manage to make the trip to York this October. I would enjoy that very much.

Frank

R.R. ...here is a train length for you, and it's B&O too!

When the B&O cut back long distance passenger trains to/from baltimore/Washington - Phila - NY City on Saturday, April 26th,1958 via the JERSEY CENTRAL and RDG RRs, the last B&O train to depart the CNJ's Jersey City, NJ Terminal was the next day when the CNJ-RDG-B&O operated an extra equipment trains that rounded up all remaining B&O head end and passenger cars at Jersey City to return to Baltimore. This train was over 30 cars in length.

Would have liked to see that train!

Walter M. Matuch

I am building a scale 12 car Lackawanna Limited.

1. Weaver Models Brass Pocono

2. Golden Gate Depot 3 car head end set

3. Golden Gate Depot 4 car coach set

4. Golden Gate Depot 3 car sleeper car set

5. Golden Gate Depot Diner

6. Golden Gate Depot Observation

Here are my 3 long trains:

Chessie Steam Special (13 Cars)

Santa Fe El Capitan (12 Cars)

C&O Passenger (12 Cars)

Just my opinion . . .

. . . but really long passenger trains (more than about 12 cars) only look impressive where they can be seen from front to rear on straight track, from somewhat further back than the edge of the layout.  Most of us just don't have enough O-Gauge space to really show them off - I certainly don't  I would love to run 16 or more passenger cars, but, when I can only see one part of the passenger train as it passes I lose interest after 10 or 12 cars.

Dewey,

I'm sure of it

I wish I could remember when The Tidewater used to run in and out of Portsmouth.  I know I saw it, being we lived between the ACL and SAL tracks, but I just don't recall them or any ACL passenger trains

Lately I've been thinking of a 3-rail passenger train "loop" and a 2-rail switching layout all on the same layout, but that's for a separate topic.

You might look at passenger cars from MTH.  Try pulling 12 cars and see how that works out with the tough grades and any curves on the layout, you can add on more cars if it works out.  I've seen 18-20 passenger cars being pulled by A & B units.  Keep in touch.   Killian

VETERANS HOME - NORTHERN CALIFORNIA

POW/MIA YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN

Jim

Long passenger trains are nice but just consider your railroad:

1. Are your turns broad enough to handle the consist 072 or better

2. How big are your passenger station platform does it make sense to run 10-12 cars if most do not fit into your station.

Steve

Even with the prototypes not all stations can accomadate the entire passenger train consist like 30th street or penn station, with some of the longer trains. Especially the smaller cities.

I remember walking up 4 or 5 cars in High Point NC to get off the train there.back in  the late eighties.

Even today, the NJ transit commutor trains require walking a few cars at some stations to detrain.

In my opinion, the size of a layout and track curve diameter have a lot to do with the aesthetics of long passenger trains. I tried running 15" and 16" long cars on 042 curves and the overhang of the cars ruined the overall image I sought, the appearance of a long passenger train.

Now I run only Rail King 13.5" long cars in strings of 4 to 8, and they give an overall look that appeals to me. The sidings on my 12' x 24' around the wall layout are designed for 13.5" Rail King cars in consists 8 cars plus a steam locomotive.

There are 3 passenger stations on my railroad, and one of them has platforms long enough to accommodate full 8-car passenger trains. The smallest suburban station has a platform that accommodates 2 cars, and the other suburban station accommodates 4 cars.

My longest passenger train is my seven car Lionel SP GS-2 Daylight with smooth side cars.  It looks great.  I wish I has a couple more cars but they're hard to find and expensive.  I agree that you need very broad curves for this to look good and I build my layout with the largest possible curves.  They average around 120" diameter.  My longest freight is now 40 cars and also looks great on the double-track main.  My grades max out at one percent.  I am able to back these trains reliably.

I wish the manufacturers would do what LGB did years ago.  They provided a one car add-on coach with a set of dry transfers so you could select from several different car numbers.  That way they only had to make one add-on car and you gave it a unique number!

I run a 12 car CB&Q heavyweight passenger train, that are all Golden Gate Depot, scale length cars (also up-graded to Kadee couplers for closer coupling), and it operates fine on my home layout and the Independent Hi-Railers, Midwest Division modular layout. I use either one of two CB&Q O5 class 4-8-4s or an A-A pair of super detailed Williams E7 diesel units.

I also run the 11 car Golden Gate Depot, Southern Pacific streamlined Daylight set (with articulated diner and chair cars). Naturally motive power is a GS-4 4-8-4!

A. I wish I had the space to do curves like that.  Even O72 curves leave me with a lot of overhang and I'm sure the O84 and even O96 will too.  

B. Picking your own number makes total sense!  A set of prototypical car names would be nice too but at least give us the numbers!

Tis has turned into a great topic,...I was hoping to stir someone into realizing they had a set of those cars they needed to sell!

B&O 18 inch Smoothside Passenger Cars. 

I have a D&RGW set with 15 MTH 18" cars pulled by a modified ABA Williams PA set with 2 motors in each A unit. The club layout has 096 curves and a 1.5% grade. Could only make it around one time before the Z4000 gave up. Too much current draw. Am now in the process of replacing the lighting with LED's. The layout is 15' X 30' and the train filled up one side.

Al

Al

your layout size is similar to mine

 JIM

Have the K-Line PRR 18" smoothside cars, including 2 blunt end observation cars, that I can part with,

Thanks, Charlie.  But I am looking for Lionel B&O cars.