Longevity in Our Locos

The electronics and command control are what got me back into the hobby a few years ago. The postwar stuff might be durable, but it just doesn't do much for me anymore. Personally I think they are making some pretty impressive trains these days with a lot of detail and really neat features. More than I ever thought possible. I really see no reason that the newer electronic engines can not provide many years of service when properly operated and maintained.  

The current state of electronics in model trains today are what dreams were made of in the 1960's when I was just a dumb kid in my early teens.  It's neat stuff, with out a doubt, but when I look in a Lionel or MTH locomotive and see all this stuff filling every nook and cranny inside the shell, I begin to wonder.  I look at DCC decoders, and I see everything on one relatively small board. 

Part of the problem is the proprietary nature of the electronics.  5-10 years down the road, will spares be available when something goes *poof*?  That's the thing about all this hi-tech electronics in trains, it can last 10 years or 10 minutes.

At least with DCC, assuming there's the standard 8 or 9 pin plug, replacing the electronics is a fairly simple prospect.  It's even easier with locomotives with "drop in" decoders design specifically for certain locomotives.

Then of course, there's good old conventional.  Running my recently purchased AM GP9's was a simple as taking them out of the box and putting them on the track, flipping a switch and grabbing the throttle. 

No entering ID's or changing setting. Just add power and it's hi-ho silver away...  No muss-no fuss. 

Sure the lack of sound takes away a certain dynamic when running conventional, but as I get involved in running, I find I miss sound less and less.

Rusty

Rusty

 As usual,a thoughtful post. I guess that's the point I'm trying to make here. The more complicated we get,the harder it seems it will be "down the road" to repair certain items.

 And even now, a quick glance at the message board will often have posts with someone having problems "right out of the box". Can we expect things to improve,5,10,15 years from now? I dunno. It seems the saying "keep it simple stupid" no longer applies. If nothing else,I've always thought that it would be great if a new model could be offered "with or without" all the additional "bells and whistles". I don't want to have to pay extra for features I don't want or need.

That's just me.

Mark in Oregon 

Over on Yahoo there's been several posts recently about 10 year old DCC decoders giving up the ghost.  At least the DCC guys will find a compatible (if not better) replacement.

Rusty

The owner of my favorite LHS mentioned recently that certain electronic parts were no longer available. With obselescence and  use, I don't see the current electronics lasting over 10 years(as I write on an 11 yr. old Toshiba laptop).

I've watched as electronic components become obsoleted by vendors where I work.  Sometimes the replacement components work fine, other times we're in for a painful round of hardware, software and/or test parameter changes to compensate for the replacement part.

Rusty

 Isn't that kind of the problem with the electronic field? There are new advances all the time, so by the time something hits the market, it's already almost obsolete. I know this applies to personal electronics, and my fear is the same will apply to our "toys"...(The big difference there is, TVs and computers are made in the millions, so they have it all more "dialed in"; our models are made in what, maybe the thousands of units?)

 Believe me,I'm not "anti-progress", but I do find this trend towards "more is better" a somewhat troubling dynamic...P.S plus,I just found out that Radio Shack is going under,so my local supplier of small screws,resistors,etc. will soon be no more.Guess I'd better stock up while I still can

Mark in Oregon

Originally posted by Rusty Traque; "Then of course, there's good old conventional.  Running my recently purchased AM GP9's was a simple as taking them out of the box and putting them on the track, flipping a switch and grabbing the throttle."

Perhaps we should start making the distinction between electric and electronic trains. I look at my motive power, all packed in their boxes, and I wonder how many will be D.O.A. when they're unpacked after the move.

Perhaps someday they will have expiration dates on all this electronic wizardry. And like DCC, easily replaceable decoders/boards.

"Perhaps someday they will have expiration dates on all this electronic wizardry. And like DCC, easily replaceable decoders/boards."

...until some unique component/s necessary for DCC decoders/transmitters is discontinued by its manufacturer/s.

---PCJ

I don't think there is a unique component needed for DCC.  It's all 1's and 0's going back and forth. 

But, if something is obsoleted, then it may require some redesign, but it still would plug into the standard (key word here) socket.  There's probably little physical similarity between a first generation DCC decoder and a current one, except for the 8 pin connector.

Rusty

Rusty

Rusty, That is hilarious!!!

Mike A.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. In fact,didn't Lionel make that distinction(kinda) with their "Electronic Set" of the late '40s?

Mark in Oregon

there is one aspect of electronic that wears out from age, and it is dialectic capacitors. they dry out. they have a life span of about 10 years (at least that is what i read in a computer book), and are a known issue with computer mother boards. Ceramic capacitors do not have the issue. Transistors also wear out, but that is more dependent of wattage run, and the build quality to start with, along with their size.

So perhaps a few new capacitors after checking for blown tops could breath new life into the decoders? One advantage of O scale is larger boards making such a repair easier/possible.

I certainly don't think we're going to get the service we got from Lionel post war trains, but I do have MTH Dcs trains that are 14 yrs. old and work fine. I guess it depends on luck. I have a Panasonic clock radio 46 years old and its transistors are doing just fine. Before I retired I used to repair TV's, now you just throw them away. There too you can't buy parts.

>> 5-10 years down the road, will spares be available when something goes *poof*? 

I believe Lionel assures customers that spare parts will be available for three years.  After that, I think it depends on what is left in stock.  New locos are known to be cannibalized for spare parts.  When the new locos are gone, no more spare parts.

>> That's the thing about all this hi-tech electronics in trains, it can last 10 years or 10 minutes.

Infant mortality of solid state electronics normally will occur well within the three years of spare parts availability.  After that, anything can happen sort of randomly. 

>> but as I get involved in running, I find I miss sound less and less.

Display running at a train show is a great place for loud sounds.  Running at home, I prefer peace and quiet after about five minutes.  Good thing there is an "off" button!

>> I don't think there is a unique component needed for DCC.

An electronic wizard type guy told me that most all of the DCC decoders are dependent on the miniaturization demanded by cell phones.  In other words, if cell phones had not been invented, none of the decoders would be small enough to fit into our toys.  Interesting thought......

Cheers.....Ed L.

There's always been something driving small, faster electronics.  Otherwise we'd still be using vacuum tubes.

I seem to recall there was this little thing called the Space Program that brought many of the advances in electronics.  Even 30 year old hand calculators have more computing power than what we had going to the moon.  (I have an old Casio fx-115D calculator from the early 1970's that still works fine...)

If it weren't cell phones, it would have been something else driving the electronic wizardry.  And I have a fairly good job because of it.

Rusty

>> I seem to recall there was this little thing called the Space Program that brought many of the advances in electronics.

Ah so....the memories are slowly returning.  Advances in soldering also once the engineers realized that hauling hundreds of pounds of lead up to the moon was not an efficient use of rocket power.  Thus, large blobs of solder on each joint were replaced with "contour soldering" which meant just enough solder to cover the contours of whatever was being soldered together.  All that weight was eliminated without any loss of function.  Engineers are very bright people to come up with an idea like that. 

"S"miles.......Ed L.

Well, when I said "unique component" I meant the integrated circuits found in the electronics. Anything that has ever been made can certainly be reproduced if no suitable work-alikes can be found. Getting it manufactured if your projected sales don't meet production minimums could be a bit tougher--which is why Lionel's CAB-1 had to be retired in favor of what amounts to a feature-limited Legacy controller.

Usually when modern trains are compared to postwar in terms of longevity, I feel that since drivetrain failures of modern trains are so rare that it's hardly spoken of, as long as enough electronics remain available to build basic E-units, even modern trains can be kept running just as long--so long as you define postwar-level functionality as a minimum standard for "running" (which is something most of us wouldn't accept, but doesn't make it impossible). I'd imagine there would be cause for concern if say, the manufacture of Pullmor motor brushes suddenly dried up, though . 

---PCJ