Lowering MTH gondola

Tom,

I just did a whole fleet of gons.  

It was some major surgery but once I had the first one done, it was pretty easy.

Here is a photo.  The stock is on the right, lowered on the left.

I put MTH scale trucks on a pair and it dropped them about 1/8"

Lowering the car over the Hi-Rail trucks, with the pizza-cutter flanges is not easy. The tastes and simplest method is to just change the trucks to the 2-Rail SCALE type (I prefer the Weaver 2-Rail trucks). All the changing of car body bolsters and such, could still cause the big flanges to contact the underside of the car.

I've also looked at trying to lower MTH's tank cars, which ride so high it's ridiculous (if those were 1:1, you could walk under them standing up). I couldn't figure out a way to do that, either, without some kind of complete redesign.

Another reason why that tank car is so high, is to clear the swing of the claw coupler, in addition to the big wheel flanges. When the claw coupler is removed, and the car is up-graded to Kadee coupler, then the body can be lowered on the truck, even with the larger flanges.

I see where you guys are going with this.  If you absolutely have to have a center rail, I believe there is currently "T" rail track, and all you would need is 3-rail switches with 2-rail tolerances.

Easier to go 2-rail if you can overlook that missing center rail.

Bob,

My stuff is 3rail with hi-rail flanges.  When you get rid of the stock coupler, you can get the cars pretty low and keep the trucks.  

I have some 2 rail cars on the layout.  They are a bit finicky on Gargraves/Ross track and switches. 

Dave

What I did with a center beam flat was to take out the ends of the MTH underframe (where the trucks mounted) and made bolsters. I mounted Weaver trucks with Intermountain 2-rail wheels and the car rode much lower. It has enough clearance to allow for 3-rail wheels, but I'd have to shim the Kadees more.

Swapping the stock MTH trucks with Atlas O trucks will also lower them down a bit as the truck bolsters are lower.  Atlas O separate-sale truck pair kits also come with screw mounting adapters that work fairly well.  I've done this to a number of MTH freight cars before eventually deciding to 2-rail them altogether using the same method, except of course with 2-rail versions of the Atlas O and MTH trucks, which others have already mentioned lower them to an even more prototypical height.

I've never found that the large flanges have been a problem when lowering cars. I'm sure that in some situations they have been, but when I lowered some old K-line (Intermountain) plastic reefers riding on old-desiign, PW-proportioned die-cast sprung trucks, I just Moto-Tooled the Intermountain plastic frame bolsters off the car and the reefers now sit quite realistically, with the original trucks, and no flange scraping.

The area where the bolsters were was not visible, anyway. 

This is one example and situation; some are more problematic. But, often, just grind away in the hidden spots.

Tank cars and their nudity are a problem - but have you noticed that, because of this, even the real tankers in a freight yard sometimes look like they're riding around on MPC trucks? Weird.

Switching to 2-rail if one has nice things is not a good idea. One usually needs a bigger house and has to live with poor equipment selection. By comparison. If I wanted 2-rail with poor selection, I'd go to S-scale tomorrow. 

Dave,

That is exactly what I'm looking for.  That gondola looks great lowered.  I probably won't be able to get mine that low due to using the original "Claw", but I should be able to make a little improvement. 

What kind of surgery did you have to perform?  I could probably figure something out myself, but why re-invent the wheel!

Thanks for your input.

Tom

I too am interested in what Dave did.  I have some of these gons and I installed kadees, so the lobster claw will not be a problem.  

Thanks for any advice/pointers you can offer Dave.

Tom,

Sorry for the late reply.  I had to disassemble one and take some photos.  I will try my best to explain:

1. I use a flexible saw to cut off the mounting boss from the frame.

2. Enlarge the hole with a Uni Bit

3. Invert the mounting boss and insert into the enlarged hole.  I used bars in the depressed cross pattern as a stop gauge.

4. Trim the excess material on the underside.

I hope this helps!

Pics:

Also note that I cut off the Kadee mounts flush with the underframe.

Wow. I see this is posted in Hi rail so ......I should let it go?

Probably......some folks still believe in the tooth fairy and Easter bunny.  Stripping away their closely held myths can be risky, yet entertaining.

thank you Dave!

No - switching to 2-rail is a poor idea if you like the center rail.  It is easier to switch to 2-rail than it is to convert a whole bunch of 3-rail cars to 3-rail scale wheels and Kadee couplers.  If you are laying track, it is probably a break-even if you are laying "T"shaped flex track, although switches may be a problem.  Doesn't Ross make 3-rail "T" rail switches to custom specs?

If you convert MTH to 2-rail it remains capable of its original radius unless you add underframe details - and unless the Kadees constrain the radius.  And as I understand it, most MTH new production comes in either 2-rail or three.  You can keep tinplate radii if you want.

I see nothing wrong with 3-rail scale, if having a center rail is important to you.

Here are my MTH gons, re-done with insulated wheelsets.  The one on the left will probably do O-27.  The one on the right has metal frame extensions, and probably needs 36" radius.  The choice of how big the layout has to do with how accurate you want your equipment, not how many rails you like.

These are nice models, and do not need lowering.  The prototypes sat quite high, so the doors over the trucks would work.  Now if only somebody would do the earlier version . . .

Nice gons again, Bob.  Wonder if the Glacier Park gon kit might serve as a starting point for the earlier version???

You are welcome!  I want to add that I also notched the car body for the Kadee.  Lionel gons have a whole section that is removed to accommodate the lower stance.

Dave

Thanks, Dave.

Your method looks fairly uncomplicated.  I have a few other projects to wrap up, but I will do a conversion in the near future.  I'll post the results....if they are worth posting.

Tom

Very interesting and informational topic. It's important to note that some gons sit higher, as with the drop bottom gon by MTH. Dave, your lowered model ls great! Did MTH only me this in UP livery?

Don

Dave:

Like how you did the modifications on that MTH gondola. Are you using the stock MTH 3-rail trucks after the frame modifications? Also, do they still negotiate 36" radius (O-72)?

I have about eight MTH gondolas and all are modified for 2 rail and sit nice and low.

When I modified mine I used Weaver trucks, Intermountain wheels and Kadees.

To mount the trucks I turned down some round solid nylon in the lathe and made sleeves to mount the trucks on.

Works for me of course the stumbling block is you need a lathe for my method.

Roo.

Roo,

Those trucks make the modification totally different.  Certainly less complicated.  I have issues with 2 rail flanges on Ross/Gargraves track and switches.  They work OK with just a few cars but derail as the train gets heavier.

Matt,

I keep the stock trucks.  I do hack off the claw mount for Kadee clearance.  

They negotiate 72 curves.  I have one section with 2 72" switches in an 's' pattern that I use to test cars.  They make it through just fine. 

Dave

Thanks for the reply Dave.

The good side of the modification is you could use Weaver 3-Rail wheel sets if your layout is 3-rail.

The downside as I mentioned you need a lathe to make the sleeves and when your making one at a time it can get laborious.

If you were going to do many cars a computerised lathe would be the shot.

I did these a long time ago when the Cement container gondolas first were released from MTH. Of course the containers (to me) sat to high so I milled the containers till the height looked good that's another story.

Nowadays I try to use as much original items as possible for 2-Rail conversions.

I have just done six Lionel EL centre flow 3-bay Hoppers using the original trucks and I have six MTH EL 2-bay hoppers coming any day now.

Apologies this posting is on the 3-rail site but my mods can be used for 3-rail as well.

Roo.

Dave: Thanks for the info.

Neville: Like your technique. Nice clean solution to MTH cars' lack of bolsters.