Metro-North hits car in Valhalla. 6 dead.

Here are some pictures and story!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-...re/story?id=28704215

TV reports say:  The gates came down onto the car, the driver got out and looks for damage and then got back into the car and drove further onto the tracks.   

 

Question:  What was she thinking?  Answer:  We will never know because she is dead.  Unfortunately at least 5 others are also dead.  

 

Joe

I have had diner at the Valhalla Crossing Restaurant right next to that crossing many times so I know that crossing. With all the population in the area and the number of trains that pass this crossing and the others on the Metro-North Harlem Line it is long past the time to have a grade separation of the railroad tracks from the roads the cross the tracks. People think and rightly so that red flashing lights mean stop and go. If there were the same three way signals of red, yellow and green as we have at street intersections people would stop for a solid red light as oppose to a flashing red light(s)

as we now have at railroad crossings.

Just tragic....Greg

People think and rightly so that red flashing lights mean stop and go. If there were the same three way signals of red, yellow and green as we have at street intersections people would stop for a solid red light as oppose to a flashing red light(s) as we now have at railroad crossings.

Sadly, don't think so.

I wonder why we don't make railroad crossing just like regular traffic lights.  I think people would take a regular stop light much more seriously.  I also think that if there are many trains that the community should consider building a over or under pass.

 

It seems that someone is killed by a train somewhere in the SF Bay Area at least a couple of times a month.  Most of these events are trains hitting people.  Some events seem to be suicide by train.  

 

My model railroad club gives Operation Lifesaver presentations to local 6th graders.  We have given the program to over 25,000 kids during the last 10 years.  I hope that it makes a difference.

 

Joe

 

 

 

This railroad line is the only one in Westchester County, NY to have railroad grade crossings and many people do not know what to do when they encounter such a crossing especially at night when it is very hard to see that there are railroad tracks when they approach them.

I think the ultimate solution would be both - the traditional flashing reds supplemented by a regular traffic light.  You could make the argument that the large gate in front of you should be your first clue, and you would certainly have a point, but apparently carelessness/cluelessness has no bounds.  I've sat behind people in the middle of the night in the middle of no where at a red light - no traffic in any other direction for probably over a mile.  Yet... they won't 'run' that red light no matter what.  

 

And it really can happen to anyone, regardless of their state of awareness.  I'm always careful around crossings and try never to do anything stupid, but the other day someone in front of me decided to make a left turn just across tracks... RIGHT NOW.  I came to a screeching halt inches from her rear bumper... right in the middle of the crossing.  I was aware of it, and there were no trains in the vicinity, but I actually made a plan sitting there waiting for her to cross (traffic...), assessing how much room I had on the berm to her right and if I would have to go up into a yard.  I felt kind of silly after the fact, but then I read things like this....

 

 

Really!!!

I don't buy the flashing red must mean stop and go argument. We all learn early in life AND IN DRIVERS ED what a railroad crossing is and what the signal means regardless of whether or not we are involved in trains as a hobby in some fashion. I see on a regular basis in Hunt Valley Md. at the light rail crossings  where people will drive around not only the down gates but any car that is in front of them. I think it's more of either stupidity or I'm too important to wait attitude, I don't care if they kill themselves but to kill someone else or traumatize the train crew that now has to live with this is what I have a real issue with.

 

Jerry

Sadly, another tragic case of lack of judgment, and or, ignorance. 

 

As mentioned above, EVERY driver's manual in EVERY state has information about railroad crossings! 

So I assume those MU trains are lighter hence also can be damaged by hitting a car?  Diesel train...no problem. Sad that the people on the train got killed...innocent victims.   Did this driver not know what it means when the gates are down?  Checks her car then continues on through???  I mean I don't know much about freight ships in the ocean but I know not to drive a fishing boat into the side of one.

Mike,

 

The third rail was ripped up by the sliding Jeep, punctured the Jeep's gas tank, and then proceeded to puncture the M-7.  As far as I know, M-7's do not carry flammable chemicals.

 

This section of railroad was electrified over 100 years ago (see Lionel Standard Gauge NYC&HRRR engines).  People should not be excusing flashing red lights or lack of knowledge about trains or grade crossings.  As Art points out, EVERY SINGLE DRIVERS MANUAL and DRIVERS ED course covers this in detail. 

 

If people still don't get it, they shouldn't be allowed to drive.

 

Jon

I know the crossing very well as I lived very close by for 30 years. Metro North has grade crossings right near our house and numerous trains and cars pass through safely every day. There is no excuse nor explanation for what some drivers do. These gates flash lights and clang bells VERY loudly for 30 seconds or more prior to descending. We all know that some folks are too impatient and take unreasonable actions. As long as there are grade crossings we can expect some one who should know, but does not, to stop when the lights flash. There is nothing complicated about this. It is tragic for all the families. Tragic and unnecessary.

So sad.....especially for the people on the train......they expect a safe ride.....not someone putting their lives at risk!

 

Peter

Looking at the pictures and the severity of the damage, it's remarkable the casualty count was not higher. The equipment appears to have done an excellent job of protecting its passengers and crew. Reports indicate the crew performed bravely in helping to move passengers to safety...well done and all the credit in the world to them. At this point, the best we can do is pray for all involved, particularly those who had loved ones taken from them as a result of the accident. There are a lot of broken hearts this morning.

 

Bob 

quote:

I wonder why we don't make railroad crossing just like regular traffic lights.  I think people would take a regular stop light much more seriously.  I also think that if there are many trains that the community should consider building a over or under pass

 

Part of driver education should be behavior at railroad crossings (if it isn't already). I cannot agree that a regular stop light would be taken more seriously. People run red lights and stop signs all the time.

I wonder what would have happened if the lead car had a "V" shaped cow catcher. Would it have made any difference?

 Prayers for those lost.

While I doubt if this applies to the location involved in this accident, there are some

really badly engineered railroad crossings...I have gotten trapped out on a busy

four track crossing in Flagstaff, Arizona, that leads from a number of motels to

the downtown.  I do not remember any gates, but the lights flash.  The problem

is that the road T's immedately on the other side of the crossing with a stop light,

and no flashing lights on the opposite side to give you early warning not to drive onto the tracks because the stop light is about to turn.  I seem to remember that

a side street parallel to the tracks also funnels traffic out onto the tracks.

 I've sat behind people in the middle of the night in the middle of no where at a red light - no traffic in any other direction for probably over a mile.  Yet... they won't 'run' that red light no matter what.  

The proper and legal thing to do is to wait for the green, even in this situation. The red light means the judgment is out of your control, unlike a yield sign that allows you to assess the situation. This is to protect everyone, including a police car that might be running "dark" through the green to avoid giving notice that it was responding to an emergency. If the police car slams into someone running a red in the middle of the night, it is the runner's fault. (Although the family will still likely sue the police.) The Metro North accident is an example of what poor judgment can cause even when there are control/warning systems in place.   

I am 100% in agreement!  When I was in college, I approached a red light near the Pittsburgh airport one Sunday morning around 6AM.  I sat at the light for what seemed like five minutes and when it had given no indication it was cycling properly and, with no traffic visible in either direction, I "ran" the light and made a left turn to head east on the Parkway.  I wasn't a half mile down the road when an Allegheny County policeman pulled me over and cited me for running the red light.  In conversation with him while he was writing me up, he advised he had been sitting north of that light and was aware it wasn't properly functioning.  To his credit and my relief, he deliberately made several key errors on the ticket which resulted in it being dismissed.

Now, insofar as the Metro North accident, while I realize we have a significant population of clueless people among us, I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to mistake railroad crossing flashers for a "stop and proceed".

 

Curt

 

I know of this crossing as well and have crossed it myself.  Also I have crossed several other RR crossings in my time.  I am just the opposite of many people.  Even if the gates are not down I slow down to almost a crawl to make sure I look both ways.  Maybe not the best thing to do but when my kids are in the car I have to be sure.  And when the gates are down I DON'T move an inch. 

I posted this to Facebook last night but I might as well post it here as well:

"Did it bother anyone else who listened or watched the news about the Metro North incident tonight between a car and MU's at a grade crossing that they kept referring to it as the train hitting the car? They make it sound like the big bad train went out of it's way to slam into the poor old car that just happened to drive around the gates. They also only seem to show sympathy for the family of the driver, yes its sad but it was his fault! How about the family of the engineer who lost his life because some idiot ran around the gates without regard to anyone else? Or what about the rest of the train crew that now has to live with the fact that the train that they were working took multiple peoples lives, I can imagine that's something you never recover from (I was controlling a shove move where we slammed into a brand new Ram 3500 that still had temp tags on it because the driver didn't want to wait for the slow moving 6 car train to pass. Even though no one was hurt it still shakes you up and I can't even begin to imagine a situation where there is loss of life). The media always seems to get it wrong, the headline should have read "Car hits train after illegally defeating the railroad crossing warning devices and driving into an oncoming train"

Mathew

Building a railroad/highway underpass is remarkably expensive. Here in Naperville, IL, there is a particularly statistically dangerous BNSF crossing on the west side of town. The city has taken what I feel is a much more cost effective action: it has installed an escape lane, for a motorist who finds herself trapped on the right of way with gates down AND a camera monitored by the Naperville police Dept is trained on the crossing. People disregarding the downed crossing gates receive a hefty fine. A bit of Pavlovian zapping can go along way to educating dumb motorists.

There was a murder several years in the LA area where a driver deliberately drove onto the tracks ahead of a push / pull train.   The result was that several people were killed including the engineer.  (The driver was charged and convicted of murder.)

 

This resulted in new regulations requiring that the lead car in a push / pull train have better protection for the engineer and the passengers.  The cars in CA are double level and it is probably easier to provide protection when the engineer is sitting well above track level.  The locomotive at the other end of the push / pull has a built in armor zone in the nose. 

 

Perhaps Metro North can come up with a design that will provide better protection for people in the lead control car.  I know that double level cars probably can't get into Grand Central because of low clearances.  I really feel bad for the engineers who are sitting at the front when this happens.  They don't even have an air bag to protect them.

 

The real solution is to eliminate all grade crossing in commuter zones.  The New Haven railroad did this in CT in the early 1900s as part of electrification between GCT and New Haven.  Sometimes our fore fathers knew best.  This route is now part of Metro North in CT.

 

Right now there is a heated debate about eliminating grade crossing in the SF Bay Area between San Francisco and San Jose a distance of about 60 miles. This is a heavy commuter train route through the center of Silicon Valley.  The trains are all diesel powered push / pull.  There are numerous pedestrian and car accidents on this route every year.  The argument is over cost and towns that don't want a large fill through the center of town.  The towns want a tunnel.  Tunnels cost much more than fill especially in an earth quake zone.  

 

This route is part of the proposed CA high speed rail system and I think that all grade crossing will eventually be eliminated.  We will be doing what the New Haven RR did 100 years ago.  

 

Joe

Mr. Barker I have used the Cal train many times when I lived at Bay Meadows race track. Used to be a groom and have been out of the game for years now Did they tear down the track? What happened to the San Mateo county fairgrounds?  Tanfaran  was always a blast in mid august

Sad and tragic accident! It should not happen but people need to be educated more about trains and how long it takes them to stop.

 

A couple of things that FEC and the city of Stuart FL were considering; 1) put a vehicle bridge over the tracks(Monterey road, merchants didn't like that idea), 2) FEC was talking about having some kind of a wall that would come up from the road in front of the railroad crossing and prevent cars from going across the tracks when a train would cross the intersection.

 

Would it be possible to require people to complete a short coarse on railroad crossing safety when they renew their driver's license?

 

Lee Fritz

that's just a horrible horrible accident.

Had a incedent a few years ago.

came upon traffic in front of me that had

backed up all the way to a rail crossing.

I stopped well back of the tracks because I couldn't go all the way

without stopping on the tracks. so I stopped and the guy behind me

thought he could beat traffic and pulled around me, only to have to stop

behind the guy in front of me which put him directly on the tracks.

Im thinking what an idiot.

I was hoping a train did not come along right about then.

Being familiar with that crossing the bell sounds loudly for about 35 seconds before the gates come down.

 

The person interviewed who was behind her was right behind her when the bells started and he stated "nobody was behind me". She could not back up when the bells sounded because of him.

 

It was his duty to back up immediately, seeing she was trapped in traffic and he was on her bumper. Not to wait until the gates came down.

It was reported that the man behind the Jeep DID back up to give her a chance to escape. Maybe she was too confused or panicked. It's such a shame.

 

From the New York Times:

“It looks like where she stopped she did not want to go on the tracks, but the proximity of the gate to her car, you know, it was dark — maybe she didn’t know she was in front of the gate,” Rick Hope, who said he was in a car directly behind the woman and backed up to give her room to do the same, told a local Fox affiliate, WNYW.

He said that the woman instead drove forward, only to find herself stuck on the tracks.

CNN is reporting the Third rail stabbed the first car causing the fire. Darn right there were no more fatalities! 600V Dc and all that current means instant death!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/...collision/index.html

 

I really doubt the breaker acted quick enough!

He backed up AFTER the gate came down on the back of her car. He was up close behind her while there was a car in front of her preventing her from backing up for the 35 seconds the bell was ringing.

That third rail coming through the car reminds me of when iron strap on top of wood rail would break loose and rip through the wood coach bottom impaling anyone in its path.  Snake head I think it was called. 

 

Hopefully the third rail breaker popped before it could electrocute someone, though by the reading of story it didn't much matter for victims in front cab car. 

 

Reason I ride middle of train, less likely to get problems.

I work liability investigations in auto accidents as my day job.

Trust me on this, folks, you can't seal off a grade crossing or anyplace else. If a car can get to a specific place, it will eventually.

Most drivers, I think, start off with the concept that they're a good driver. If they're in any kind of accident, they'll use backward logic and assume they can't be liable because good drivers never cause losses, right?

If this driver had suvived, I'd bet my next paycheck she would have claimed it wasn't her fault somehow.

You can't imagine the things I've heard from people about their accidents over the years. I've even had people hit parked cars in parking lots and be adamant that the other car's owner is liable for the accident!

You can educate all you want but you can't change stupid. Operation Lifesaver is a great thing and has I'm sure saved many lives over the years, but there'll always be that one person who simply doesn't think when they should, for whatever reason.

how many volts are in the third rail ??

The most recent update from the website of the Post:

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/04/m...y-metro-north-crash/

 

Bob

 

 

I was in the USPS today.

A customer remarked about the inconvenience to passengers who got home so late.

Trying unsuccessfully to keep my emotions in check, I added:

"Not to mention the inconvenience to the families of five incinerated people And one mother of three who was impatient."

 

Compassion ?

None

 

I know that crossing, my wife when we were dating did not live far from there, and one of the things being left out of the accounts is the crossing gates are pretty far from the tracks, if her jeep had the bar on the back of her car, I don't think her car was on the tracks if my memory serves me correct (and it is now well over 30 years since I have been there). Had she stayed where she was, I don't think the train would have hit her, she basically if the accounts are correct drove forward (probably panicked), and was hit. 

 

I don't know why she went through the gates in the first place, unless the guy behind her pushed her under the gate, she had to have driven when the gates were already flashing and making sounds, even if not down. She probably assumed that because the gates were not down, it was safe (stupid, what if the gate was stuck in the up position?).....and yes, they spend a lot of time with telling people about railroad crossings, in drivers ed classes and so forth, but it is also possible the person got a license without ever having any kind of driver's ed or the like, and ignoring the operation lifesaver and such, thought from what I read she was not young, presumably had been driving a long time. Maybe traffic was so backed up that she thought she could get across the tracks and was trapped? The last account I read said that she was out of the car, waving her arms, trying to get the train to stop, so I don't know how she got killed, did she get back in the car to try and get away again? 

 

In the end, the NTSB will figure that out, and in the end it doesn't really matter, in the sense that a bunch of people are dead. Whatever mistakes the woman made, she leaves behind a family grieving for her, as do the poor souls on the train who died. It was a vicious accident, and the NTSB guy said that as bad as this was, there is a miracle in that more did not lose their lives, apparently the third rail went through the car and two cars on the train after getting ripped up....so if there is any silver lining to this, it is that more were not killed.