Pretty simple, never drive onto tracks unless you can cross them without stopping.

im betting she was just completely distracted, obviously in another world if she exited her car to check for damage. Probably on her phone.....

Since it would be impossible to eliminate all grade crossings, because of built up infrastructure around the tracks, what might be needed on high traffic roads is an "escape pocket" for vehicles to pull over into in order to get off the tracks if traffic ahead can't (or won't) move up.

Also, regarding the design of MU/Cab Control car, I find it interesting that they don't have to have the same crash safety (as well as safety equipment) as locomotives (although the recent cab cars in LA seem to be addressing those concerns).

Stuart

I read in the news today that the driver of the suv that the train hit had never taken that route before and was driving that route only because her regular route was closed off because of a collision and being after sunset with no street lights just added to her confusion. She just had no clue as to what to do when she got caught between the crossing gates while waiting for the traffic to clear ahead of her.

Also apparently "no clue" that the gentleman behind her had backed up and was yelling at her her to back up out of the way, too.

I've noticed that when drivers rely on their GPS, they are not cognizant of threats/dangers/obstructions/animals/features/signs that do not appear on the GPS console they are concentrating on.

The smugness in the comments from some of you know-it-all, Monday-morning quarterbacks is getting as close to disgusting as anything I've seen posted on this forum.  It's asinine comments like this one (and a few others in this thread) that make me realize some of us have just one thing in common:  this hobby... and that's it.   Our ways of thinking and the compassion that we show people in a bad situation are as different as night and day.  And quite frankly, I wouldn't even want to have a drink after work with some here who have commented so disrespectfully toward Ellen Brody and the situation that led to this tragedy. 

For one thing, Mr Hot Water... if you took the time to watch/listen to the video clip of the eye-witness who was in the car directly behind Ellen Brody... he didn't state he was yelling directions at her to back-up.  He stated he was MOTIONING for her to back up.  (Not that it would have made that much of a difference had he been yelling, since the train's horn might have drowned out anything he might have been yelling to her anyway -- assuming he even rolled down his car window while yelling, which he wasn't.)

Newsflash... at 6:30pm it was probably pitch black at the scene, and the headlights from his car would have been shining DIRECTLY into her eyes when she checked to see what hit the back of her car.  So it's doubtful she even knew if the driver of the car behind her was a man or woman -- much less "saw" any hand gestures he was making in an effort to help her.

Doubt what I'm saying?  Try it... Stand 20-25 feet in front of a car in your driveway pitch black at night with its headlights glaring at you... and tell us what you see when looking toward the driver.  Then come back here, and please try not to post anymore asinine comments -- especially when you don't know what you're talking about.  As far as that night was concerned, YOU WEREN'T THERE.

David

A lot of analyzing has shed some light, and it just gotten very much sadder.

Nobody is perfect for sure.

But..

Our attitudes, everyones, while driving, and about driving safely is a sad state of affairs. I don't know about other state practices. But Mi. hasn't included driver ed. in the schools for decades. The private sector driving schools are teaching nothing but what will them through the tests.

Tests: You shouldn't drink and drive period we know this. I don't even drink. Why am I required to know the legal blood alcohol % allowed before I'm prosecuted? This over actual driving rules? Id think proper care around petroleum stations would be more useful Unless your out to skirt the law to its edge you don't need to know it..( Nice of the state to help. huh?)  

  The cost of the driving classes also puts larger amounts of poor youth in the 'I cant afford to drive" category, thereby also limiting most, the ability to work anywhere but the closest opportunity for any pay, if at all. Because there aren't many businesses in those areas, they are getting worse, not better. Use your imagination, or search from there...back to the track)

So I feel, and I bet others do too, we have a couple of generations of degradation of driving skills, and can only blame ourselves.

 Fast drivers aren't as skilled as they think, or they would know better, slow drivers aren't skilled by doing that either, many are more dangerous, and less skilled then the norm. In a hurry? Your problem, buy a clock. But what?...read the signs: Speed Limit.

The ones that don't cause accidents are the skilled ones.

Off duty cops? Wake up, slow down, your not in the squad car. So no, people aren't watching, or yielding to you as soon. (I show an attitude to cops sometimes. If I feel it! Its expected of me if due. Family photos are always noticed getting paperwork out of the little album too. Respect is a two way road, the badge isn't a free pass its a job, we are all equal as citizens.

David, 

   I think you and a few others have had the most lucid comments here.

   I am familiar with the crossing, familiar with the railroad and have met many hard working Metro-North employees over the years. Besides the sadness for the loss of life and injuries to those involved it is also sad that a great railroad is in the news again for a reason like this. Few would argue that for many years, Metro-North ran basically flawlessly, safely and on-time. From what I have heard, regarding this accident, the crew of the train did everything correctly and courageously.

   For those who think they are the judge and jury, wait for the NTSB report.

Tom

You are quite correct ed !!

Please, people.. take the time to read the links here. it may / should provide you with a better understanding of the entire situation ..  [ btw, i am VERY familiar with this particular crossing.]

Thank you. David.  this is the most insightful post on this tradegy ive seen here yet !!

Monday morning QB does little to help anyone understand.....agreed.

My only issue is the experts on the accident site and those reporting the story have so PC'ed the story to where NO ONE is or even could be at fault........

A number of people doing the 100% correct thing died and someone is at fault.....like it or not. It was not a freak mechanical failure or weather event. 

Those in charge need to stop being so vague about things and thus making Monday QB more valid or even possible.

I’d like to say thank you to all that have kept a level head and have shown compassion,
understanding and true sorrow for a very sad tragedy. For the rest, I'm truly sorry for you.

Joe Kunka

I'm reminded of a brief time when I had the chance to commute with my Dad on the LIRR. 

He always stood in the exact same spot on the platform going both directions.  When I asked him why, he said that when the train comes in, the door to the middle car of the consist will stop right here.

Why the middle car?  His formative years of commuting on the LIRR included many head-end and rear-end collisions.  The middle cars were just safer.

Jon

I wasn't going to put a dog in this hunt, but I decided to anyway. If you visit NTSB.gov one can get the facts as known, rather than have multiple links from news media.

So, if you take the time to listen and view the third briefing video of 2/5/15 by the NTSB, you'll get a summary of the facts known as of that briefing and details of the events that occurred. You'll be surprised and pleased at the transparency and amount of disclosure. You'll be saddened by the events that led to this tragic event.

There's no need for opinions or interpretations.

I agree with others, treating this as some stupid person who didn't know any better than to cross the tracks, among other things, doesn't fit the facts that have been coming out. I was on a rescue squad at one point, and I the saw the tragic consequences of stupidity, the  obnoxious lawyer who ended up wiping out a family by driving the wrong way down an interstate highway with a blood alcohol level that was near alcohol poisoning levels (and who was stupid enough to mouth off at the state cops who finally got him, and got what he deserved), I saw early SUV drivers who thought 4 wheel drive meant the laws of physics didn't affect them, I saw a lot of stupidity.......and I also saw more than a few occurrences where people were human and made mistakes because they panicked or otherwise showed few of us are perfect. 

In this case, everything I am reading coming out of the NTSB points to the fact that there were extraordinary circumstances there, it was dark that night, there had been an accident on a local highway and people were diverting to local roads they didn't know, and it is likely from what I have heard that the women may have been under the gates because traffic ahead was stalled, she probably thought she could get across the tracks, and then when the arm came down she panicked (the way she was acting, getting out of the car and so forth, tells me she was panicking).

A lot of people, probably most of us, when faced with a situation like that, can freeze up and do stupid things, I once responded directly to an accident scene with a friend of mine, where a person had slid off the road, the car was hanging kind of by a thread over the edge of a major drop off, and we were right there, telling the person not to move, that we had help on the way, and we were going to try and secure the car, and the person in the car kept moving, shifting around trying to undo their seat belt, then reached over as if to exit the car, and we were right there, telling them not to do it. Panic is a funny thing, it makes us stop thinking, even if we have people right there telling us what to do.  

I think this one is simply a tragic accident, one that had sadly fatal consequence, and I don't think in this case that it was caused by stupidity or by negligence, I think it was a classic example of when a series of seemingly unrelated factors end up causing a tragedy. 

My view is summed up I think by the expression " there but for the Grace of God go I....." And in that light, I can only hope that for all the grieving friends and family, for those killed on the train or the poor woman in the car, that they can find some solace and hope in their many moments of grieving for those they lost. My prayers go out to the engineer on that train, who I would bet pretty good money that even though he did everything he could, is probably still feeling the impact of what happened, may he find peace.

agree with you jack on this one. looks like she had no clue on a number of things,and other people also paid for it with their life.-jim

I read in the Sunday in the New York Journal News that one of the recommendations is to eliminate as many of the 40 grade crossing on this line using either bridges or tunnels. I had suggested either putting the railroad on embankments or in a cut. A perfect example is in Brooklyn, NY on the B and Q lines where the tracks are in both in a cut and then on an embankment going south as required by the water table. The grade crossings were eliminated in the very early 20th century on this line and on all of the other former BRT and BMT lines in Brooklyn by 1918.

I don't know if people outside the area got he rest of the story.  The engineer helped pull people out until he was overcome by smoke.

Metro-North engineer is shocked he survived train-SUV crash that killed 6

Steve Smalls was in the engineer's compartment in the first car when an 80-foot piece of electrified third rail tore through it and almost impaled him in Tuesday’s horrific collision. His sister said he’s stunned to be alive. Smalls has been called a hero because he sprang into action to help trapped commuters escape.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new...ro-article-1.2104691

 As a retired conductor I've had my share of these unpleasant happenings. (about14).  Unfortunately the bad ones stick with you forever. Anyway  when the road crossing goes over the tracks  does a car drive over the third rail as well.  Is it buried?, is it a special type of rail. .  I know it's possible for a vehicle to  get hooked  to the front of a engine and pushed down the track, but usually the track stays in place. 

BTW. I sure wouldn't want to be the engineer on this type of equipment. I'm guessing  his vision would be restricted   to his left side. (same as the budd cars)

Not a good day .

The other item they are considering is the under riding third rail. Metro North uses it as did the University of Michigan,

This places the third rail higher as the power pick-up shoe slides under it.  It may have been more easily picked up by the SUV and redirected into the first car.

I've always been very interested in the various systems employed to power trains through electrified power... and I've been particularly fascinated by third-rail ground systems vs. overhead catenary -- especially when trains approach complicated track work.  For years, I road the rails almost daily between Washington DC and NYC when I was a product marketing manager in a former corporate life (based in Philly), and I would always get mesmerized by all the fancy track-work between the NJ/NY Hudson River "tubes" and New York's Penn Station.  Even more so by the fact there were tracks powered by both overhead catenary as well as ground rails -- not by the same train of course, but the tracks supported both forms of electrification.

If you look closely at track "powered" by ground rails, the electrified third rail runs parallel off to the side of the regular 2-rail track.  It sits "above ground" and is supported every so many feet so that power pick-up shoes/tabs extending from the train can ride above or below the third rail.  Due to the massive current draw from the third rail, it is protected with a shield from casual contact which would be fatal to anyone making contact with it.   With the Metro North system, it's been reported that the train's power pick-up shoes/tabs run underneath the third rail rather than above it.  So whenever there's a break in the third rail at grade crossings and complicated track-work, the rail curves upward slightly to provide a "catch path" for the train's power shoes/tabs to continue making contact underneath the electrified rail.  Some folks have commented that this slight upward curve may have made it easier for the electrified rail to start traveling upward through the SUV and into the front car of the train, as the SUV was pushed along the track -- rather than be pushed toward the ground had the rail been curved downward.  Sounds like a reasonable theory, but only expert analysis will tell the real story.

Definitely sounds like a "perfect storm" of very unfortunate conditions precipitated the tragedy.  And it will certainly be interesting to read about the final NTSB findings. 

David

After so many decades of successfully using underrunning third rail from the earliest days of New York Central electrification between the city and Harmon, I hope the powers that be don't suddenly take it upon themselves to question everything due to this one "perfect storm" accident.

Underrunning third rail has saved many lives over the years, since it is harder for workers or trespassers to make accidental contact with a misplaced foot. You have to work at it to reach the rail up under the protective wood covering. There are also fewer icing and other weather related problems with this system.

Jim

It is becoming more and more common to have full width cabs on subway trains and probably on the M7s too.

Compassion ?? How about some for the 5 men who were innocent victims. I agree with AMCDave.

I didn't hear anyone who offered compassion for the driver of the car who didn't offer it to the 5 men who died on that train. Denigrating the poor woman who was driving that car doesn't bring back the men who died, nor does it show any more compassion for the men and the loved ones they left behind. 

The facts as far as I have heard is that this was a tragic accident, one with fatal consequences, and one where it is hard to attribute blame. Looking at the circumstances of that night, it seems more like a combination of events that led to this, like a traffic accident on the highway that diverted cars off the highway, traffic possibly backed up to a rail crossing, a woman driving the car at night in an unfamiliar area, who may have thought she could get across the tracks, got stuck beneath the crossing gate,panicked IMO because both a train was coming and she also was freaked about damage to the car (irrational, but under pressure humans operate that way), and her panick led her to do the wrong thing, which people often do when panicked. Looking at the chain that led to this, I can only conclude that this was a tragic accident caused by a series of events outside people's control. It is very easy to sit back at my desk as I write this and say "why didn't the woman back up, to hell with the gate arms, to clear the track", it is very easy to question people's actions from a distance. She didn't try to run the crossing gate to save time (the traffic as described precludes that), she wasn't drunk apparently, she didn't seem to be someone prone to reckless behavior, it just sounds like she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, misjudged something, and the accident occurred, and I cannot sit here and blame her, I have seen people make mistakes like she did, I have seen all kinds of panic when I was on the scene of some horrific accidents, and I don't think she deserves what people are throwing at her.

I have seen cases where I think someone deserves disdain, the drunken jerk I mentioned in another post did not deserve any sympathy, he never showed one iota of recognition at what he had done, was drunk beyond being drunk and that was no accident; but this woman doesn't deserve that. If this was a wide open grade crossing where it was apparent she tried to run the crossing to make time, I would agree, but those aren't the facts. 

For many years my duties with the Federal Aviation Administration included investigating and analyzing aircraft accidents wherein air traffic control services were called into question. One thing I learned for certain is that in the final analysis things were seldom what they seemed to be during the inevitable media frenzy following the occurrence.

Everyone has sympathy for the five innocent victims.  They truly deserve our prayers.  

That really isn't the point here.

The point is that, from what we know so far, they were killed not by some gross negligence or "stupidity" as some omnipotent souls have claimed, but by an accident. 

And like the first responder posted, the goal is to prevent similar accidents like this from recurring. 

We may never know what would cause an experienced driver and a healthy, intelligent human to panic and freeze as the driver did.

We should,  however, be able to determine if something could have been done differently with the physical characteristics of the roadway crossing that may prevent the situation from occurring again.

There is a reason that the goal is grade separation for high speed rail operation... and this predates cell phones and modern driving distractions.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the New Haven railroad separated all the grade crossings between GCT and New Haven when it electrified its mainline starting 1907.  This is the only way to prevent this kind of accident.  Our governments should strongly consider doing this on heavy commuter train routes wherever they might be.  

Joe

 If they do separate more crossings, each one is not only a step forward in traffic safety, but an opportunity for higher rail speeds. But that's a whole lot of earth based engineering too. I don't think we ready for that commitment all at once. Even if we were, until it happens, other things would help.

 The number one thing we can do now, would be a commitment to crossing safety, and education by the govt. & law enforcement. Similar to what has happened with school busses, seat belts, phones, reading,  t.v.'s, makeup, and alcohol, it would be a giant step.

 A stop sign, and/or a new law forbidding "tailgating" of closer than 25ft-100ft ft when crossing tracks. They seem to be doing well with the busses. So how about a 1/8 mile RR Safety Zones? 

 The overhead R/Y/G stoplights, in addition to, the lighted crossing signals we have, may help some places. But I cant help to think it would only have more people "step on it" as it changes, hitting the gates, or worse.

 Many rural hwy, high traffic crossings have the big crossing flashers over them already in addition to the traditional stoplights. I like the large overhead flashers a lot in traffic. On "blind' two lane roads, a "RR X-ing ahead", about 3-5 semi lengths back, and a set of extra lights is another favorite to see.

The New York Times has an article today highlighting another dangerous crossing in the NY Metro area (NJ).  Watching the video, it's easy to see how someone could get trapped between the gate and the track. The gates come down too close to when the train passes.
I'd like to understand why they don't realign the road so it crosses the tracks at closer to a 90 degree angle and fix the timing of the gates.

As Joe Barker said above and what I said here earlier The New Haven Line, The Hudson Line, and the Lower Harlem Line that today is the Metro-North Railroad had removed all the road rail grade crossing when the railroads installed either overhead electric wires or 3rd rail well over 100 years ago. It's now become a crime that this was not done on the upper Harlem Line when 3rd rail was installed in over 30 years ago. I have forwarded this information to the Federal Railroad Administration. I certainly hope they will act of this and fast track this project. With 40 grade crossings and a population of over one million people in Westchester and Putnam Counties another tragedy is bound to happen again. Several have already happened here in the past 30 plus years.

Family of lady now suing the railroad...

http://www.ctpost.com/local/ar...38.php#photo-7925229

My daughter called me just this morning. She was sitting in traffic at a stop light. There is a rail crossing, a busy track, right at the light. I will admit that the set up is not ideal. But it's been this way for more than 60 years so most folks should know. 

She called me because the car in front of her stopped right on the tracks. And a CSX coal drag came through. Cross traffic prevented the driver from pulling forward, When the train signals come on.....cross traffic gets a constant green light. The stuck driver could back up....but gates were down so they would have had to go through them.  So they driver just pulled forward almost causing a big accident......all because a lack of knowledge AND respect for a rail crossing. My daughter called as she was so surprised in seeing this unfold. Growing up in a train house has some benefits.  

The only conclusion that we can arrive at is that an unfortunate driving decision was made and that the driver alone caused the death of her and her passengers. It is a tragic accident but we must question the kind of kind of judgment used to stop a car on railroad tracks in the middle of a grade crossing without waiting for an opening on the other side before moving across.

Prayers and sympathy for the family but the fault was the drivers alone and she must bear the entire responsiblity for the consequences of her action.

Originally posted by standard Gauge:

Family of lady now suing the railroad...
http://www.ctpost.com/local/ar...38.php#photo-7925229

Probably looking for a Payout of no fault settlement $$.

"New York State Department of Transportation in 2009 allocated $130,000 for additional warning lights and signs at the crossing, but the improvements were not implemented."

very unfortunate situation 

Only fools would stop their car on railroad tracks for any reason. The train always has the right of way. Some of these folks are the same people that make U-turns on freeways/interstates in emergency vehicle access points and will block traffic in other lanes because they do not want to miss their turn. After seeing the way some people drive it amazes me how anybody could say its the railroad crossings fault

"It was due to a confluence of circumstances existing at the crossing, which failed to meet standards of railroad crossing signage throughout this country and prevented Mrs. Brody from having the knowledge necessary to protect herself."

Really? Really? Give me a break.