Mike Wolf's (fuzzy) vision of the model railroad hobby

The DCS system remote can operate TMCC/Legacy engines in command mode is because of the fact that Lionel published the TMCC command codes, and in turn issue those commands via the serial port adapter on the Lionel (and Legacy) command bases with a special serial adapter cable interfacing between the DCS TIU and the TMCC/Legacy command base.

 

The reason Lionel's system can't run DCS engines in command mode is the same reason why DCS can't issue Legacy-specific commands:  because MTH didn't publish their command codes.  That is what gives MTH it's competitive advantage, and most likely a big factor in Jerry Calabrese thinking Lionel's publishing their own codes was a mistake, and why Legacy-specific commands are now proprietary, like DCS.

all I know is this hobby would be in sad shape without mth .I wouldn't be in it.we still be buying postwar remakes with sound without mike entering the o gauge hobby

Thanks John, so basically it was a matter of one company (Lionel) publishing codes, and the other taking advantage of that, but not making theirs available despite that.

wow....I don't know what to make of that. What was Lionel's intent in doing so?

Was it an attempt at establishing a standard? 

I sometimes wonder if it would have been better for both MTH and Lionel to just have gone the DCC route like HO and N did.

I think Lionel's original intent was for TMCC to become a standardized form of command control for o gauge, like DCC is now in the other scales.  But while opening up TMCC was a bonus for the 3rd party licensees and hobbyists in general, the downside is that as the OEM you do lose a degree of competitive advantage.  Mike Wolf probably saw that, and Jerry Calabrese certainly feels that way also.

 

Lionel did investigate the feasibility of adopting DCC to O gauge before they released TMCC.  There were legitimate reasons DCC was passed over.  The biggest reasons were that the electronics for DCC decoders at the time simply couldn't handle the higher amperage our O gauge trains tend to need.  The other, and just as critical reason, is that with DCC out of the box, the flexibility really isn't there to be able to control all vintages of trains, from prewar to today, and also be able to run them all on the same track at the same time.  DCS & TMCC can do all these things out of the box.  DCC, until relatively recently, couldn't operate both DC and DCC engines simultaneously.

Oh, I dunno.  I was at my local Menards today (it's a big, two story store) and didn't see a single Lionel set or any other train related item.  'Tis not the season...  Once they start clearing out the Halloween stuff, it'll start showing up, but it's not year-round.

 

Rusty

I highly recommend that you do.  Menards is a cut above many other big box stores of their type.  In the regions where they have a presence, they are known for the quality of their merchandise and the service they provide.

 

By the way, they are placing ads with us, as well.

I don't know about "sad shape," but you can darn well bet that it wouldn't be the hobby we have enjoyed over those many years since the mid 1990s.

I agree with Allan.  Mike and MTH have done very much to make the hobby so enjoyable!

Rusty, that in a nutshell explains all good businessmen. I bet if you could ask Josh Cowens competitors what they thought of Lionels business tactics most of them would probably bad mouth him since he basically took over the train market and created a system that worked in his favor. Mike is no different, no better and no worse than any other successful businessman , he rolls with the punches, follows trends, takes shots across the bow of his competitors, drops products that don't sell well, ramps up production of things that do and moves into markets he feels that are untapped.

Isn't this what the American businessman has always done?

 

Jerry

Using actual time-period correct resources (Back issues of OSR,OGR,CTT, all manufacturer's catalogs, and a few items I own from the time.), it appears that Williams and R.O.W. and Weaver were moving more to scale items that we know today than were MTH or Lionel.

 

I think if I was going to give credit to any manufacturer(s) for the detailed scale environment models that we on the forum prefer today, it would be Williams, Weaver, and R.O.W.. Lionel for TMCC. Mr. Wolf was involved, but I think the above mentioned manufacturer's were first, using the above mentioned resources. MTH fine-tuned it, no doubt, and his early JLC-type advertising helped.

 

 

mike wolf worked for Williams in the 70's and he worked for weaver.

Whether, it's Lionel, MTH, Weaver, or Williams by Bachmann or anyone else building trains it has proven that competition has been good for the industry, the products continue to improve and that gives us the choice what we want to buy. Just like track and accessories for our railroads continue to keep coming out with new products for us to choose from. Thanks to all the companies that sponsor our forum and continue to bring out those great products for our hobby, Thank you! Wouldn't it be boring if you only had one company you had to buy everything from? We want the choice and thanks to all the wonderful companies that make all the main products and accessories for our hobby we have that option. I don't support just one manufacturer and I bet a majority or others don't buy just one brand no matter what they say. Too many choices out there.  FYI,  As to the so-called "Big Box" stores Wegmans Food Markets have brought their unsold Lionel sets from last year back out to the shelves from the back room storage at last year price of $199.95, I saw it the other day, I would have thought they would had discounted them down like they did last year unless they're not going to sell new sets this year or maybe they're hoping no one realizes they are last year's sets and hoping to sell them off before new ones come in. It might only be mid-August but in the minds of "Big Box Stores" Christmas is coming!

 

 

Keep in mind however that young Mike Wolfe was working for Jerry Williams back when Williams brought out their first 'scale' brass Hudson. Then a brass Pacific if I remember correctly so Mike had exposure to and possibly some input into these scale designs.

When Mike began doing contract work for Lionel with the then new 'Lionel Classics' tinplate models, he also helped produce the scale Reading T-1 with Korean Mfgr Samhongsa who Williams had been using.

Mike's first engines under the MTH label were indeed scale models (the Dash 8s) and he very quickly produced the amazing die cast Challengers. For the first several years, ALL of MTH production was scale, he didn't make the Rail King line until later. Mike was very much involved in the scale movement in 3 rail trains from early on...

 

Some people in HO refer to Bob Grubba as the devil much as this guy does Mike Wolf.

 

Personally, I have had great luck with both men's businesses.

Mike Wolf never worked for Weaver.  Mike teamed up with Bob Weaver to allow Weaver to put Protosounds (PS-1) into a handful of weaver locomotives.  Weaver did well with this.

I still believe that model trains showcased on a simple but nice-sized layout are a great attention-getter in big box stores/department stores during the CHristmas selling season.

Just having a train or two going around attracts crowds of all ages and can kick in the "nostalgia factor" for older parents and certainly grandparents.

The store needs to have the boxed sets which are running on the store layout in stock and on sale right on the spot, of course, and lower priced sets should be the only ones stocked.

I think that recent attempts by Wal-Mart and others to stock Lionel trains at Christmas failed because actual trains running on  layouts were missing from the equation. MOTION is what is needed here.

Mike Wolf also was key in the design of the Weaver logo they use today:

 

If I remember my history correctly something moving under a Christmas tree was the start of Lionel????

My son works in retail for a major drug store chain with stores coast to coast. He tells me how the manage/budget floor and shelf space to the fraction of a inch. And it changes for time of year, vendor and location. I don't see the big box stores giving up floor space to a display layout....not to mention the personnel (time money) to watch, run, maintain and trouble shoot the layout. A layout draws a crowd for sure....but doubt Big Box feels it's worth it....not even close.

It was the Electric Express motorized gondola.

EE was intended to be an animated display for store windows, carrying featured products around the window. His first sale to a retailer produced a demand for the display rather than the products displayed within, and Josh picked up on that. The rest is history.

---PCJ

No offense...but I always hated both those logos!

However, I do own  MTH Bar Stool, it rocks!

Despite its funkadelic colors and logos!

I would bet a beer that the buyer of Christmas toys at Menards has some involvement with electric trains away from work. It seems that whoever the buyer is has taken time to have rolling stock manufactured in China by a company other than Lionel. Plus that person has added the very detailed buildings now to the Christmas offerings.

You're sure right about that, my friend!    

 

I'm not sure where or how a lot of these folks come up with some of this stuff, but my guess is the myths and misinformation is most often the result of reading something erroneous on the Internet, accepting it as fact, and then perpetuating the B.S.

I was wondering whatever happened to Neil. Neil has always had a deep personal thing for Mike. His MO was always adding a "smilie face" to his posts as that was some sort of legal out, he was a hoot! I miss him! He also thought Bob Grubba was some sort of God! LOL.

 

LOL, not the same Neil that bashes this forum, its administrators, and some posters on another forum and states that he would never submit to the rules of the OGR Forum.

Yeah, that's the Neil I'm referring to...my most worthy opponent in the world of toy train give-and-take.  Discussions are always lively when the good Dr. Neil is aboard!

Getting back on topic for a moment:

 

I remember seeing some MTH starter sets at Sears, must be some 10-12 years ago now.

 

Perhaps it's Mike's experience with Sears that soured him on big box sales.  However we perceive his logic, fuzzy or otherwise, I don't think MTH is going to dissappear anytime soon.

 

Rusty

Well Mike is no slouch to the business obviously as MTH us very successful.

The toy train market has changed radically over the years, and those who do not practice flexibility will soon be gone. Mike knows all too well today's market. High quality is in demand, and reasonable prices are as we'll. Until the labor scene in the US changes, manufacturers will go over seas to reduce those costs, period.

In old days moms and grandmothers night trains for the kids. They already had in mind to get a train for Bobby. They knew they could go to Gimbles, Corvetts, Sears, or Wanamakers and go to the toy department and buy the one they thought they could afford or that Bobby would like.

Those days are gone, and the model outdated. Today unless someone who is already into the hobby introduces a youngster to trains, they are not likely to get into the hobby or know it exists. That is exactly what Mike is talking about. If that kid from the 50's named Bobby does not introduce his son to the hobby, the son is not likely to get into it.

It's that dad who knows about the hobby who knows where to buy them too, and that venue us no longer Sears or Wanamakers, but it's a local hobby shop or on line retailer.

The reference to big box stores can only refer to larger retailers of the day such as Sears, Wananakers, Macy's etc as opposed to the small hobby shop. They technically are large retailers not big box, I consider big box to be Costco, BJs, or Hone Depot, not large retailers like Sears.

Gandy

I was just gonna comment about how, after reading most of this thread, I couldn't tell

who was on first, or even where the ballpark was...and Allan has just stated that the

thread is full of bad information...I certainly saw contradictory statements.  I would

wonder if there is verified history in publication, but be concerned it was tweeked for

a marketing advantage, or, as above, full of hearsay.  So....how much of what I thought I knew is wrong?  It got pretty basic when there were conflicting statements

about who Mike Wolf was married to....   

Yanking the topic back to something a little more informative...

 

Recently I read an article in TCA Quarterly (yeah, I know something not related to who dun something ) that cited the reason for the drop off in a number of hobbies (trains and stamp collecting for example) and hobbyists.

 

That reason? television.  The article discusses how TV has transformed many young boys (and girls) from tinkerers, experimenters, and do-ers into receptors of information [my paraphrasing].  Over the last 40-50 years, TV and the more passive related experiences - computers, gaming, social media have taken a lot of exploration out of our children (and us). 

 

George

Bill, I think at one time Mr. Menard was listed as a T.C.A. Member. So,perhaps the interest comes from a few pay grades above the buyer.

Brad

Anybody remember how Lionel's "pop-up" stores was supposed to be the answer?

 

Rusty

>>>Recently I read an article in TCA Quarterly (yeah, I know something not related to who dun something ) that cited the reason for the drop off in a number of hobbies (trains and stamp collecting for example) and hobbyists.

 

That reason? television.<<

 

 

Joe,

TV took the starch out of a lot of things in our society.  And the TCA article cited some data and a study to back up its statement.  Do you have any?

 

George

You are correct.  The head guy is a train person.  Small world, huh?

>>>Joe,

TV took the starch out of a lot of things in our society.  And the TCA article cited some data and a study to back up its statement.  Do you have any?<<

 

 

How DARE you say anything negative about the savior of model railroading?!?!?!?!

Correct on both counts. 

 

TV did, indeed, have an impact on the time and money devoted to leisure activities, including hobby activities like model railroading.

 

The TCA article was properly researched and supported by verifiable data.

There are no "saviors" in this hobby, but there are individuals who have had a profound impact on its direction.

And today, it's probably i-whatevers sucking the money and liesure time.  (opinion)

Rusty

Before the days of competition from MTH, Weaver, Atlas, etc., I recall some very bleak visits to York.

 

Table after table of postwar sets in boxes in the multi-thousand dollar price range, excellent postwar pieces at a similar price point, other postwar in terrible condition for top prices, and a limited number of new Lionel (MPC) offerings of dubious quality, all of which resulted in my leaving the fairgrounds practically empty-handed.

 

There will always be the detractors who refuse to admit it, but the hobby would not be where it is today with the abundance of offerings in all price ranges if MTH and the others had not come on the scene.

 

We might not all agree on tactics and philosophy, but what we have today would never have happened without competition.

 

Jim