Model Railroad Infrastructure

@Seth Thomas posted:

@wild mary

I'm so glad your layout will be accessible for you again. I hope there's restroom facilities on layout level as well. And oh, order your lift without one of those black belts.

Our lift is much simpler to exit since I cut out ours 😆

Enjoy Your new lift and your Western Maryland again!

Speaking of game changers, Cleveland Indians vs. The Guardians.... I don't think I'm as excited....

Thanks Seth.  Actually there's a full bath and a kitchen in the basement level.  When the house was built 70 plus years ago it was built as a two family dwelling.  When I retired 14 years ago I did a complete renovation and converted the house to a single family dwelling.

Anyway the Cleveland GARDIANS is going to take some getting use to.  I sure hope they leave the Cleveland Browns alone.

Wild Mary & Seth:

Your chair lift systems are more than mere infrastructure.

They are major ASSets to your RRs & homes !!!

😀 🚂 🤡

@Wild mary

I think the Browns are going to win more games this year, unless the players don’t vaccinate 😜

Yes, the chairlift will change your life at home. And your engines with get more exercise soon as well.  I recommend to buy a good surge protector for the chair electronics as well.

WM, I do believe we are related via the C&O flag.  I intend to branch out into the WM and Southern in the next few years…

I am having my Allegheny updated from ps1 to ps3 as we speak by a friend in PA. So I will need a ps3 WM to keep my C&O Allegheny company in the shed.
Have a great weekend Cuz😀

take care!

Seth and Wild Mary, we have decided we will have to sell this house before needing a chair lift.  I can’t see how they could install one in a split entry house.  We don’t like the house anyway, but my mother-in-law insisted we buy it from her.  It had Berger mother-in-law’s house.  Anyway, I think the chair lift is a great idea for those with a straight staircase.

@Mark Boyce

I have seen video of a chair lifts which makes 180 turns but not personally witnessed.  Wanted you to be aware
Just in case the sale of the M N L house doesn’t happen in time.

This afternoon I spent several hours working on lighting for several  used buildings I acquired for the layout over the years. It takes me a long time, but my CEO complains on how slow I am…
After issues with my M N L and my mother and my health since 2017 my scenics are happening.

I quit in time tonight to see in NBC the Team USA enter the Olympic Tokyo stadium 🇺🇸

Watching the 🇺🇸 Team Still sends goose pimples up my arms😀

I did a complete infrastructure modification to the basement. However, it was over a two year period.

180 degree chair lifts are a common option.  My neighbor had a stair lift with three 90 degree bends.  My doctor has a 180 degree stair lift.

@necrails posted:

Late spring i added black landscape fabric to the ceiling joists around the layout but not directly above since i have a valence hiding the joists there.  Outcome was a whole lot less dust and an overall cleaner look to the space.  I will be bumping up the layout lighting but the effect of a dark ceiling and a dark layout skirt makes the layout pop.  So much so i have some scenic work to do this winter.

Black ceilings and black skirting really DO make a layout “pop”! I’ve visited forum member Bob Bartizek’s layout in the Cincinnati area and he went a step further and laid black carpeting on the floor. When you walk down the steps and enter his basement layout room the effect is absolutely stunning! It’s like walking into a darkened theater with the stage brightly lit.

Curt

@Robert S. Butler posted:

BillYo414 - may I make a suggestion - don't paint the ceiling black - if your layout is of any size you will need all of the light reflecting surfaces you can get - I'd recommended either white or a very very pale blue.

That's one recommendation I would respectfully disagree with! In my last two homes, I had the ceilings painted flat black (gives kind of an industrial look to a basement ceiling with exposed wires, pipes, etc.). Everyone who has seen those ceilings comments on how the black makes the ceiling virtually "disappear" so attention is drawn to the layout. It really does work VERY effectively. I don't plan to ever move again, but if I were to, I would definitely go with the black ceiling again. Flat black Dryfall paint also helps to significantly reduce dust.

Allan - that's interesting.  The few layouts I've seen with black ceilings were almost impossible to see in their entirety.  Just curious - do you have lots of overhead lighting in addition to a black ceiling or is it really a situation of a black ceiling with little or no overhead lighting?

My New Jersey wife would call Arnold and have him sue me for divorce if I spray painted the basement ceiling black.

I will be finishing it out next years, and I think she wants real gold leaf tiles, with a copy of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel painted on them.

(Oh well, at least God and the angels will be looking down on my layout.)

Mannyrock

I currently use LED bulbs for my traditional recessed ceiling lights in the basement which are fairly bright, gliw cool and should last a very long time. I have already has them for 2 years.

Before the LEDs, I had very bright 200 watt incandescent lights. They sure brightened the layout, which was good for taking photos and videos of the trains.

The previous owner of our house, a draftsman, added an L-shaped  home office at the rear; it was added-on with two levels for the floor and a sliding patio door to the patio.  I claimed it as a train room and compensated for the two different levels of the floor with SKIL adjustable-height sawhorses so that the platforms would be at the same height.

I removed the sliding patio doors and hired a contractor to install a wall with an entry door; $1800. It worked great -- until the first rain storm. The concrete entry pad at the base of the new wall sloped "the wrong way;" i.e.; TOWARD the train room, not AWAY from it. So every rain storm brings with it some rain leakage under the base of the wall. Not "flooding" by definition, but enough to create a thin puddle on the floor at that wall -- a water nuisance.

My next infrastructure project -- fix that leakage.  I haven't yet figured out how to do it, but I hope a Water Damage Expert can offer suggestions without removing the wall, starting over, and draining my bank account.  When I see TV commercials for FLEXSEAL, it starts my wondering if that cheap fix would work.

Future infrastructure project -- when the existing florescent celling fixture above the north leg of the layout dies, I'll replace it with a longer-lasting LED fixture(s).  Problem is -- the perimeter aisle space around the layout is LIMITED (done intentionally so I could install layout platforms five feet wide in that narrow room in order to accommodate O42 minimum curves and switches and perimeter sidings). I can't get a stepladder in position for that project. I presume a scaffold will be required to straddle the layout as a work platform.

Never-ever infrastructure project -- because my layout platforms are maxed-out with O42 curvatures, I can't run some of my prized Rock Island trains that require O72 minimum curves. I used ANYRAIL software to make PC sketches of a ceiling route in my L-shaped train room, but getting all-around access to the ceiling prohibits realization of that dream.

Building a layout requires the "Five Cs" -- Creativity, Craftsmanship, Carpentry, Circuitry, and Clairvoyance (to foresee future problems and fix them up front). Obviously, I flunked the "Fifth C."

Mike Mottler   LCCA 12394

I did quite a bit before tracks where layed, but I have a much better house thats cheaper to own.  

Mike there’s another “C”; cash.
Based upon expensive experience, be on the lookout for mold. Mold will feast on the wood and boxes. I would also suggest putting a dehumidifier in there now.

Here's an infrastructure project that was accomplished about 20 years ago when the Train Room was occupied by my youngest son.  We have a small telescope and he liked looking at the night sky so I painted the ceiling in his bedroom a very deep blue and added stars individually using glow-in-the-dark paint.  You can see both the big and little dipper, part of the Milky Way, and the full moon in the photo below.  When he moved out a few years ago, we fixed up the room with new carpet and painted the walls in sky blue.  I couldn't bring myself to paint the ceiling.  Now that it's a Train Room I'm really glad I left it alone!  The afternoon sun is hitting the room right now so the image is kinda washed out.  It looks better in person. 

John

Jay Francis:

Your cautionary note about mold is timely; some of that is already manifest in my train room. I installed a modest-size AC window unit in the train room for cooling and dehumidifying, but it only runs when I'm in the room with hobby friends and visitors. I'll shop for a stand-along dehumidifier and let it run 24/7!

With thanks for that tip ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

I also highly recommend a good dehumidifier. IMO, in addition to eliminating or minimizing mold, model trains and accessories all run better the drier the train room is.

Mike, you need something that is constant and in line with Arnold’s comments. Get a dehumidifier to which you can attach a hose to run to a drain so you don’t have to dump it all the time. Also give some consideration to a mini-split; which will provide heat and AC. When you set the unit on dry it really helps with the humidity.

A dehumidifier is a huge part of the answer.   Buy a good one for about $250 to $350, that has the hose drain attachment.  Plug it in, set it to 40, attach that hose to the unit, and run the hose down into a drainpipe in your basement. 

If you need help doing this, then by all means hire a plumber.

Keep the unit running on "Constant."

In just two weeks, you will be amazed at how dry your basement is, and how much of the mold/mildew smell is totally gone.  Suddenly, instead of the basement being a dank and smelly place, it will be great down there, and after a couple of more weeks it will smell somewhat like "new construction."

Also, anything you paint down there will be totally dry in matter of just a few hours.  Bare metal seems to stops rusting, and your trains will run much much better.

These types of dehumidifiers only last 3 to 5 years and then they burn out.  But, you just buy a new one and hook it up to the drain hose.

If you have a mold problem, you have to start by killing the humidity that is causing the mold. Then, if you have any large places with existing mold, you can proceed to treat those.  (A mixture of half water and half bleach, applied with a large natural bristle brush, totally kills mold in my experience, but you have to wear adequate protective gear and make sure you have plenty of ventilation when you do it.)

Mannyrock

@Wild Mary the attached is I feel a good article announcing the Guardian name for the baseball team

Well I cannot paste the link to the article.

There is a bridge located near the Cleveland stadium with stone sculptures located in each end of the bridge approaches.  These sculptures have been called the “guardians”for the city’s population for many years.

So this is the reason for the new name  selected for the team.

it was a very good article that I located by a Google search.

I know you were concerned as to the selection just as I , so now we know…

have a good day!

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Allan - that's interesting.  The few layouts I've seen with black ceilings were almost impossible to see in their entirety.  Just curious - do you have lots of overhead lighting in addition to a black ceiling or is it really a situation of a black ceiling with little or no overhead lighting?

I have overhead LED fluorescent-type fixtures in the basement, including the layout area, at the present time, and they provide adequate overall lighting. However, I will be adding track lighting with dimmer capability once I am satisfied with the configuration of the layout. I also had track lighting in my previous basement train room and was quite satisfied with it. Could have taken it with me, I suppose, but left it for my family members who bought that house from us.

Two things: (a) Brought in a plumber this May to replace the sump-pump before it became an emergency. Cost $600 and (b) checked my generator for if and when a hurricane heads our way. With Sandy, we lost power for four days but my generator kept the basement dry. Thinking of upgrading the generator to new technology, where the generator runs on natural gas and is permanently connected to the electricity, to go on automatically. With Sandy, I had to get gas to fuel the generator and many gas stations lost power (not all), creating a possible issue with a working generator and no gas. Mark

Ok, got it. Thanks Allan.

@barrister.2u posted:

Two things: (a) Brought in a plumber this May to replace the sump-pump before it became an emergency. Cost $600 and (b) checked my generator for if and when a hurricane heads our way. With Sandy, we lost power for four days but my generator kept the basement dry. Thinking of upgrading the generator to new technology, where the generator runs on natural gas and is permanently connected to the electricity, to go on automatically. With Sandy, I had to get gas to fuel the generator and many gas stations lost power (not all), creating a possible issue with a working generator and no gas. Mark

I was out for a week after Sandy. I have a 8Kw gasoline generator that kept us going through the ordeal. Fortunately I was able to get gas from my employer's pumps.

Planning on upgrading to a 14KW Generac soon. Natural gas fuel and automatic transfer. This will cover the whole house including a 4 ton CAC.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

I was out for a week after Sandy. I have a 8Kw gasoline generator that kept us going through the ordeal. Fortunately I was able to get gas from my employer's pumps.

Planning on upgrading to a 14KW Generac soon. Natural gas fuel and automatic transfer. This will cover the whole house including a 4 ton CAC.

Bob

Are you guys sure you don’t live down here in Florida with me? Too funny!  I thought we were the only ones regularly dealing with storms and generators.

If I get a serious flood in my basement, I have the perfect solution: a raft.  LOL.

Seriously, the generator, sump pump and dehumidifier are wise choices. I have 2 out of 3 (no generator).

@Richie C. posted:

Now this could really solve your infrastructure issues ....

That’s the late Tom Groff from the Choo Choo Barn in Strasburg PA. That’s how he reached the items that needing work.

@romiller49 posted:

That’s the late Tom Groff from the Choo Choo Barn in Strasburg PA. That’s how he reached the items that needing work.

Love that picture and the Choo Choo Barn. Maybe Tom Groff could have done the balance beam. LOL

He was a very talented and brilliant model railroader IMO.

Living in a very wooded development, we went with the whole house Generac unit. During a power disruption it automatically switches on and then off. It’s programmed to run a ten minute test once a week and then annual service. It’s very comforting to have that back up. Plus, in an outage I will be able to run trains.

I would call this infrastructure.  I was fortunate enough to convince my wife we didn't need a basement bathroom and converted it into a hobby workshop for structure building.  Still working on finalizing it but I'm happy with the features I designed in to provide many hours of model building for an eventual layout.
This room is designed to keep the mess in here and keep the future layout room (relatively) clean.

Answer: We are experiencing tropical rain storms, where slow-moving systems stall out and drop several inches of water, causing flooded basements. For example, a suburban Philly woman drowned in her basement, which was not in a flood plain, because it filled rapidly with water. She was unable to get out. This was in Abington, PA outside of Philly. Mark

@Arnold D. Cribari

how about incorporating the white stack into the layout scenes.

Use two of Mike g’s yellow towering cranes, one on each end of your pipes.

Thus, Making them lifting the stack to another part of the layout scene in tandem.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I also highly recommend a good dehumidifier. IMO, in addition to eliminating or minimizing mold, model trains and accessories all run better the drier the train room is.

Arnold; your comment is both a “yes and no” kind of thing. SOME accessories run better the drier the room but, I discovered my 464 sawmill worked better with some moisture in the air. Keep the room too dry and the “lumber” didn’t want to eject from the sawmill.

Curt

We added a 28 x 12 addition to the house that is all mine. We also refinished the 12 x 20 room that is next the addition.

I love my wife. The big room is all mine. The smaller room is "shared" but is mostly mine.

Frank

Way to go Frank. If you come up with a sensational design that needs, “ just a few more feet” perhaps you can plead your case. Also, give consideration to additional outlets, in the floor too, along with lighting. This is an exciting opportunity. Enjoy the process.

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

Way to go Frank. If you come up with a sensational design that needs, “ just a few more feet” perhaps you can plead your case. Also, give consideration to additional outlets, in the floor too, along with lighting. This is an exciting opportunity. Enjoy the process.

Not to worry about outlets. I talked with the builder about what the county building code wanted and I got plenty.

Picked up a GE 50 pint dehumidifier at my local big box store on Saturday and seems to be working great. I can already feel the basement getting drier. It has a "smart function" where it automatically shuts off when the room reaches the humidity level you set it at - mine is 45%.

Also, for those interested in getting one for their train room, it appears that the DOE has recently issued new standards for dehumidifiers so that a new 35 pint one is now equivalent to the old 50 pint ones and a new 50 pint one is now equivalent to an old 70 pint one.

Frank, my thought wasn’t with regards to the building codes but with having enough to accommodate your layout needs. Such as, of course, the control panel, possible plug and play vehicles or even just for construction and maintenance needs under the layout. In my planning I didn’t want to have to run extension cords.

I got rid of all the junk I let relatives store in my basement, put up shelving against one wall and under the stairs for storage space, and purchased a 70 pint dehumidifier.  Still a crappy basement but at least it's now a clean basement which no longer smells like a basement.  Amazing how a dehumidifier can make it seem like any other room in the house. 

I'd love to be able to do what Joe did with his basement but my wallet isn't as big as his!

-Greg