Motor interchangeability 226E 675

Chassis are all the same, 224, 225, 226, 675, and early 2025 with Baldwin discs. Only thing that may be different per individual application is location of e-unit lever....hope that helps..........Pat

harmonyards posted:

Chassis are all the same, 224, 225, 226, 675, and early 2025 with Baldwin discs. Only thing that may be different per individual application is location of e-unit lever....hope that helps..........Pat

Pat  Thanks for the info

Al

The 224, 225, and 226 do not have smoke, the 675 and 2025 do. I would think this difference will make a significant difference in some details. 

David Johnston posted:

The 224, 225, and 226 do not have smoke, the 675 and 2025 do. I would think this difference will make a significant difference in some details. 

Smoke in 675, and 2025 are divorced smoke units, not even bolted to their respective chassis.....can you explain the differences you mention?.......Pat

harmonyards posted:

David Johnston posted:

The 224, 225, and 226 do not have smoke, the 675 and 2025 do. I would think this difference will make a significant difference in some details. 

Smoke in 675, and 2025 are divorced smoke units, not even bolted to their respective chassis.....can you explain the differences you mention?.......Pat

Right, the stacks were moved in the castings to accommodate smoke in the 2026, 675/2025, & 2046 respectively.

harmonyards posted:

Chassis are all the same, 224, 225, 226, 675, and early 2025 with Baldwin discs. Only thing that may be different per individual application is location of e-unit lever...

Shhh!  Don't let @DennisWaldron hear you, or he might tell you what the differences actually are!

I have Bob Hannon's book but it doesn't cover the prewar motors, so no help there.  Some of the prewar steamers have fully enclosed brush holders, but the 224, 225/226 motors for sale on a popular auction site don't show this.  I might guess that the wire gauge and possibly the resistance is different among these three.  I don't have much "throttle time" on the 224 and 226E, but to my recollection they perform similarly to an early Postwar 675, which is to say high-spirited, fast, and kind of clumsy for switching.  Smooth and quiet once underway, but overall I find post-1950 steams tamer and easier to control.

Following this thread because I would like to know for myself!

Ted S posted:

harmonyards posted:

Chassis are all the same, 224, 225, 226, 675, and early 2025 with Baldwin discs. Only thing that may be different per individual application is location of e-unit lever...

Shhh!  Don't let @DennisWaldron hear you, or he might tell you what the differences actually are!

I have Bob Hannon's book but it doesn't cover the prewar motors, so no help there.  Some of the prewar steamers have fully enclosed brush holders, but the 224, 225/226 motors for sale on a popular auction site don't show this.  I might guess that the wire gauge and possibly the resistance is different among these three.  I don't have much "throttle time" on the 224 and 226E, but to my recollection they perform similarly to an early Postwar 675, which is to say high-spirited, fast, and kind of clumsy for switching.  Smooth and quiet once underway, but overall I find post-1950 steams tamer and easier to control.

Following this thread because I would like to know for myself!

Ted, the OP just wants to know if the motors are interchangeable.....that’s all he asked.....the answer is yes they are....I’m sure there are differences in wire size color, windings and whatever...but the man can take a motor out of a 675 and bolt it straight in a 225 or 226....only thing that might hold him up is e- unit lever position.....the motor mounting points are the same........Pat

Oh and for point of reference fellas, 675’s boiler casting is derived from 225’s prewar tooling....so they are kissing cousins for sure!.........Pat

The only real similarities between the motors for the 224, 224E, 225, 25E, 226, 226E, 675, and early 2025 with Baldwin discs is the motor frame itself. The windings of the fields differ between the prewar and postwar versions. Likewise, the armatures between prewar motors and postwar are different as well and cannot be interchanged. The brush plate of the 224/224E is different than the one used on the 225, 225E, 226 and 226E which will prevent a 224/224E motor from fitting into a 225/226 shell. The brush tubes hit the inside of the shell causing the motor to be canted to one side. E-Units differ between the motors as well. The prewar 224, 224E, 225, 25E, 226, 226E motors use a 226E-35 E-Unit, while the late 224E, 675 and 2025 use a 100-25 E-Unit. The lever is longer on the 226E-35.

Rob mentioned that the stacks were moved int he 2026, 675/2025, & 2046 for smoke units, but that really makes no difference here as the shells between these engines is different. Likewise, Pat mentioned that the 675 shell (and presumably the 2025) was derived from the prewar 225. Not really. Lionel's perspective, and more importantly from a mold makers perspective, is that to slice and dice an existing mold to create something else would be far more time consuming and expensive than sinking an entirely new mold.

Dennis

DennisWaldron posted:

The only real similarities between the motors for the 224, 224E, 225, 25E, 226, 226E, 675, and early 2025 with Baldwin discs is the motor frame itself. The windings of the fields differ between the prewar and postwar versions. Likewise, the armatures between prewar motors and postwar are different as well and cannot be interchanged. The brush plate of the 224/224E is different than the one used on the 225, 225E, 226 and 226E which will prevent a 224/224E motor from fitting into a 225/226 shell. The brush tubes hit the inside of the shell causing the motor to be canted to one side. E-Units differ between the motors as well. The prewar 224, 224E, 225, 25E, 226, 226E motors use a 226E-35 E-Unit, while the late 224E, 675 and 2025 use a 100-25 E-Unit. The lever is longer on the 226E-35.

Rob mentioned that the stacks were moved int he 2026, 675/2025, & 2046 for smoke units, but that really makes no difference here as the shells between these engines is different. Likewise, Pat mentioned that the 675 shell (and presumably the 2025) was derived from the prewar 225. Not really. Lionel's perspective, and more importantly from a mold makers perspective, is that to slice and dice an existing mold to create something else would be far more time consuming and expensive than sinking an entirely new mold.

Dennis

Thanks for the info, I was wrong about total interchangeability. So if the OP just so happened to get a 224/224E motor, could a brush plate swap and e-unit swap put him back in business? And getting back to the OP’s original question, save for the e units, can he bolt in a 675/2025 early motor into his 225/226 and again, be back in business?......thanks again for clearing this up....very informative.........Pat

-----So if the OP just so happened to get a 224/224E motor, could a brush plate swap and e-unit swap put him back in business?

Yes!

And getting back to the OP’s original question, save for the e units, can he bolt in a 675/2025 early motor into his 225/226 and again, be back in business?

Yes, but he just needs to check the brush plate as some early 675 motors have 289E brush plates.

the 675 type motors are great. I've put them and the spoked drivered cousin in several different shells.