Motor of the Week - Week 4 - Please help identify!

Easy peasy.  Pre/postwar 1666.

221 (1947)

Lou N

Just as a note, there are construction differences between pre ant postwar 1666's.

Lionel 224. Although the one i worked on had rollers. 

Personally, I don't know. But I do know if you try to run it before you lube it, there's a high likelihood that it will make a bit of a screeching noise, liked seriously galled bearings. If you do that and it does that, Just put one drop of oil on the armature shaft on the brush plate side, and watch (or listen) how it disappears. Don't know what's in that brush plate, but it needs to stay (very) lightly lubed - or figure out how to put a bearing (eyelet?) in there. 

Also worth noting is that one of the brushes is grounded, unlike like many of it's newer cousins where one leg of the field is grounded. Make sure that piece o' wire soldered to the brush remains under the screw head for a good ground.

And now.....back on topic. 

I have never seen a Lionel grounded brush motor done in that fashion. I suspect that is a field modification.

C W Burfle posted:

I have never seen a Lionel grounded brush motor done in that fashion. I suspect that is a field modification.

I thought that looked odd also, but there is MUCH I do not know about Lionel and the way they did things. My favorite is the little washer with an edge clipped off that is used to ground a brush - very subtle, easy to miss when reassembling 

Brothers, we have not identified the motor, nor have we consensus on the engine(s) it powers. Note the 027 bottom plate.

What say ye?

No one has correctly identified it yet. I dropped a hint.

I would have guessed that was a prewar 1666E-25 motor, post 1938, except that it has the grounded brush. It would run that way and there are prewar locos made that way, but I do not think 1666E was ever made that way.   So I give up. 

David has it correct. It is a prewar 1666E. With the e-unit included, it is a 1666E-25 motor unit. The give-away is the center driver has the twin cutouts for the 2 pin eccentric crank. The postwar 1666 is a totally different loco from it's prewar cousin, The 2 only shared a scant few parts. There was enough differences it should have had a new catalog number, something like 1667. The postwar 1666 (and 221), the center driver has a cast-in stud for the eccentric crank. Someone removed the E-unit and wired it for forward operation only, that is why the grounded brush, that is not factory. The only motors that had the grounded brush by a lock washer is the molded Bakelite plastic brushplate 'OM' series of motors in small 4 wheel locos.

Wow, I never realized they were that different.  Do they also extend to the electrical characteristics?  I know many prewar transformers went up to 24V; perhaps the prewar motors were less sensitive to voltage changes?  In your experience Chuck, which of the two has better slow speed performance?

Ted, Electrically they were about the same. both the 1666's, many came in set with transformers that the max voltage is 13-14 volts, which gave the locos plenty of pep. The best slow speed performance would be with the original set transformer. They are 027 loco's with high gearing, not much in the slow speed department.

Someone removed the E-unit and wired it for forward operation only, that is why the grounded brush, that is not factory. The only motors that had the grounded brush by a lock washer is the molded Bakelite plastic brushplate 'OM' series of motors in small 4 wheel locos.

Either that motor assembly has electrical problems, or the person who added the brush ground made a mistake. One wire from the field should be grounded. The brushes should be wired in series with the field.

My first train set was the nyc with the blue passenger cars and the gray 221 engine. It was purchased on July 1946 and it had a center wheel  with the two pin eccentric  crank. I found the difference when I bought a replacement motor at swap meet. It was a 221 and it had the cast-in stud wheel . had to swap-out the center wheels. Vic.

Well, Brothers, there were several experts who contributed to the identification of this week's motor. So, for identifying the 1666, we award a Certificate of Awesomeness to Ted S.

David Johnston identified the motor as a 1666E-25.  We award a Certificate of Awesomeness with Oak Leaf Cluster to David, since this is David's second CofA.

To Chuck Sartor, who generously withheld naming the motor to give others the chance to identify it, we award a Certificate of Awesomeness with Oak Leaf Cluster, since this is Chuck's second CofA.

Congratulations, gentlemen!