Mr. Muffin's Southern Pacific 794 Custom Run. We need your help!

Yes, this would be a great model to have in the roundhouse for duty on our model railroads. Great idea. By the way, the pictures are beautiful. Happy Railroading Everyone

That’s awesome you have a personal tie to this locomotive.

Ordinarily I would jump at an SP model but I’m also on the picky side; I at least need a model that has a reasonable resemblence to the real locomotive and the USRA heavy mike couldn’t be further from an SP Mk class. The only thing that is right is the tender because it is modeled after an SP prototype. SP engines have a certain look and style that is all their own and gross imposters will not be making their way into my collection. Sucks because I want an SP Mk added to my roster and 3rd Rail is the only company to do them (late 90s) and they’re rather hard to find

@Ryan Selvius posted:

That’s awesome you have a personal tie to this locomotive.

Ordinarily I would jump at an SP model but I’m also on the picky side; I at least need a model that has a reasonable resemblence to the real locomotive and the USRA heavy mike couldn’t be further from an SP Mk class. The only thing that is right is the tender because it is modeled after an SP prototype. SP engines have a certain look and style that is all their own and gross imposters will not be making their way into my collection. Sucks because I want an SP Mk added to my roster and 3rd Rail is the only company to do them (late 90s) and they’re rather hard to find

I completely agree. I spoke with Steve at Mr. Muffin's and he mentioned that he needs a certain amount of preorders in order to discuss with Lionel on making changes to the current tooling. Below were my recommendations to Steve. We will see if we can get to 40 preorders, currently there are only 2. The last day for orders is 8/23.

Locomotive

• (Boiler Front/Front Area): Lionel is showing based on the SOO Line Mikado that the boiler front/front area can be altered. Removing the Dynamo and placing it further back on the locomotive is a great choice (next to the cab). 
• Headlight: Lionel SP 4-6-2 611: Headlight isn't SP but pretty darn close https://www.lionel.com/product...pacific-611-2131290/ Lionel SP 2-6-0 1760: Headlight is more prototypical but may be a little big for the boiler front. https://www.lionel.com/product...-2-6-0-1760-2331160/
• Marker Lights: I don't think Lionel will change the tooling to move them, so we might need to accept the placement.
• Dynamo: Removing the Dynamo and placing it further back on the locomotive is a great choice (next to the cab). Lionel is moving the Dynamo on the SOO Line Locomotive. If Lionel can do the same thing with your custom run that would be awesome.
• Bell Placement: The bells on the other USRA Mikados in this current run are at the front next to the smoke stack. The SOO Line Mikado bell placement is further back. This would be better for your custom run in my opinion.
• Southern Pacific Number Boards:Lionel has made a lot of SP steam locomotives in the past. We should be able to get those parts added to the boiler.
• Steam Domes: I don't think Lionel will make changes to the tooling on the steam domes, we may need to accept they will not be round like the prototype.
• Running Gear:   I 100% recommended white wall front trucks, driving gear, trailing truck, and tender trucks! That would look so sharp!

Vanderbilt Tender

• Lionel has the tooling to create the Vanderbilt tender that the 794 has. Lionel made a 2-8-0 SP 2521 with the same tender the 794 has. Making this change will propel your custom run and make SP fans so excited! https://www.lionel.com/product...-2-8-0-2521-6-82876/

I'm on the fence right now...

If they used the domes and boiler from the Harriman Consolidation it would be correct.

SP 794 and her sister's 786, 745, and 771 are all Harriman Mikes. That is why they are uniquely different than the USRA designs.

The Magma Railroad #7 at the Texas State Railroad is also based on a Harriman design.

If this locomotive doesn't make it to production, I'll be on the hunt for the 3rd Rail UP Mikado and repaint it to SP 794. When I saw the custom runs I jumped on the 794 immediately. However, this locomotive will need more support.

The other locomotive I'm on the hunt for is the Lionel Visionline GS1 either 4470 or 4471.

Ricky’s point is well taken. No one I am aware of has done a diecast Harriman Mikado, only USRA and PRR Mikes. Differences are apparent a mile off. A brass hybrid would draw much more interest. A few of us are putting two rail brass shells on three rail chassis’. That would be the ticket.

As for the hunt, there is one now on the auction site that shall not be named.

Pete

Here is my 3rd Rail SP MK-5. This is why I'm partly on the fence.

I found it last year plus a UP tender to modify into an SP tender. 3rd rail's is Pacific Lines loco.

They were going to make a T&NO version with drawings from 786 but changed it to a MK-6 instead.

The UP Harriman MK-5 is a bit bulkier than the SP version. My dad has one of those. I can get you some photos of her if you want.

I'd love to find a 4470 or 4471 as well to go with my 708.

Not quite an exact match either, but I have the 3rd Rail Mk-6 and it is much closer than what Lionel would offer.  Not to throw cold water on the grate!

Interesting the 3rd Rail UP Mikado engine is closer to the SP MK5 as far as dome arrangement. Stevenson offers a 12,000 gallon tender kit that could likely be modified to a 9000 gallon. Fun project for an SP Fan.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Ricky’s point is well taken. No one I am aware of has done a diecast Harriman Mikado, only USRA and PRR Mikes. Differences are apparent a mile off. A brass hybrid would draw much more interest. A few of us are putting two rail brass shells on three rail chassis’. That would be the ticket.

As for the hunt, there is one now on the auction site that shall not be named.

Pete

When Lionel comes out with a Brass Hybrid I usually get it. However, I didn't get the GS1 and its a mistake I've been kicking myself about since. I wonder what the next Brass Hybrid will be. Some people think it will be the NW 475. With all the success of the Strasburg 90 it seems like a good choice.

If I'm being honest, the brass hybrids feel more like Vision Line locomotives than the actual Vision locomotives these days.

Yes, I do get interested in these exciting, over-the-top features like a dozen smoke units packed inside so every nook and cranny leaks steam like the real thing or wheels that actually slip where they'll throw their tires off like the real thing, but an accurately detailed model of a locomotive that's never been done before sounds far more exciting by enlarge, especially when they have new, specific sounds to go with them like 90 did. That's what the brass hybrid series feels like right now, and they're usually at a less expensive price tag than the Vision models.

While I'm not a Southwestern railroad person, I have a lot of friends down that way that would absolutely love a model of 794, but they say they would much rather it be along the lines of a more accurate brass hybrid in similar vain to Lionel's Santa Fe 3200 model from 2017.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Not quite an exact match either, but I have the 3rd Rail Mk-6 and it is much closer than what Lionel would offer.  Not to throw cold water on the grate!

This is an absolute beauty! Did you hear the news about 3rd rail potentially not producing any more brass steam locomotives after the C&O Allegheny?

@will2926 posted:

This is an absolute beauty! Did you hear the news about 3rd rail potentially not producing any more brass steam locomotives after the C&O Allegheny?

Oh, I’d say Jonathan is aware

Here's another shot of my 3rd Rail SP MK-5.

@Ryan Selvius posted:

Oh, I’d say Jonathan is aware

Hahah I bet! 3rd rail locomotives are out there. For me I have the SP 5021, SP MT4, SP Mogul, ATSF 2925, and Laidoffsick's ATSF 5021. I NEED MORE hahah

I, too, would jump on a new SP steamer, but Lionel's insistence on the wired placement of the marker lights is a deal killer for me.  They did it correctly way back when, so it can be done.  Here is the Atlantic from at least 10 years ago.

The Atlantic, originally done in 2001, was a model of an SP specific prototype, the A-6 post modernization. The boiler and related detail parts make for a fairly accurate model so that is why the class lamps and headlight are correct for an SP steamer. The unfortunate thing is they put it on a Pennsy E-6 chassis so the valve gear, cylinders, and pilot are completely wrong.

But I know what you mean about Lionel keeping class lights on the front instead of the sides where SP liked to mount them. When you know it doesn’t look right, its hard not to notice.