Don't get too excited. It's the same track as Lenz is making. It's European tie spacing with Code 148 rail. No switches either.

It's a logical move, after all they make 2 rail trains. I've already decided to add a 2-rail line to my eventual permanent layout, but it will never replace my 3 rail leanings.

Maybe we'll get usable railjoiners.

In the catalog it says it's code 128. I like MTH stuff but I will stick with Atlas and buid my own switches.

Glad to see MTH is giving it a whirl....It will be interesting to see the final product, but I am in the handlaying camp myself.

Too bad. I was actually hoping that it was something along the lines of a 2-rail version of Scaletrax. While the rail size is high at code 193 as opposed to code 148, MTH has the tooling for the ties and turnouts to get a sectional base started. Plus, larger curved sections would be a requirement.

We'll see how this shakes out down the road.

I am optimistic. If I understand correct, MTH makes 3/2 rail engines now. (Protosound 3)

Two rail will be a welcome addition, however I am staying with 3 rails. I don't pretend to know anything, however; you would think an adjustment to the machine to omit the center rail on scaletrax would work well.

That's a typo. It's 148 rail.

It's probably not compatible with any other manufacturer's track,

Wow. MTH giving a lot of love to the European crowd... They must be buying a lot.

 It will be interesting when they announce switches and their prices. Maybe this product will appeal more to new users. I'm interested. There's only a few pieces listed?

Google lenz track switches.  You will find a variety of track offerings, a pair of regular switches and also a double slip switch noted as "available now" for $186.

They also announced a Euro 2 rails starter set, probably the reason behind the 2 rails scaletrax....

I don't expect to see it before 2013-14, but great time ahead.

Yes, they are.  A good market with long-term potential, and in areas of the world where trains still are something important (and visible) to most people.

All I can say is the more the merrier! Amen... !

Good for you MTH! And keep em' coming. The easier it is too model 2 rail the more folks will join in on the fun. 

When finally released - what do you expect a PS3 aftermarket command control board will cost?

As a side note I have a set of 2 rail MTH Premier PRR F7's on order - they are still listed for Feb 2012 delivery on the MTH shipping schedule.  I hope they get the PRR unique details correct - especially the "passenger" style pilot the PRR standardized on for its EMD F and E units. Does anyone know if the 2 rail pilot be fixed to the body - or swing with the truck?  For several years I held out hoping for an AtlasO PRR F3 or F7 but just got tired of waiting.

Ed Rappe

Let's hope they do more with it than they have done with Scale Trax. 

Well, the ScaleTrax line was admittedly slow to catch on, but once a number of highly regarded hi-rail modelers started using it with great success (as evidenced in Rich Battista's videos and on this very forum, among other places) it began to take off.  It's a fairly comprehensive line already, and I imagine it will expand as acceptance of the line expands.

Hi Jim, thanks for that post!  That certainly looks like it.

To be honest I feel like the ties and tie spacing look almost identical to the 3 rail scaletrax line.  I will keep my hopes up! I feel that this might be the perfect combination to get people over to the 2R side and maybe even convince people in other scales who couldnt stand the 3R, to make the jump! 

It's as good looking as the Atlas line from those two photos posted above. Rod Miller is going to be a dealer for this track system according to his website. He is offering a deal worth reading about for those interested. Check it out

http://www.rodmiller.com/lenz_O_track.html

Bob

Das Lenz Spur 0 Gleissystem

http://www.digital-plus.de/spur0-gleissystem.php

There you have it! Everything you need to get into 2 rail 0. The floodgates are open wide.

Hi all,

Back in December my crew and I built O and HO display layouts for MTH that were shipped to Europe for the Nuremberg Toy Fair.  MTH had not yet received sample shots of the 2-rail track, so we built the O layout with Lenz track.

Like the European 0 scale models, the Lenz and MTH 2-rail ScaleTrax are built to 1:45 scale rather than 1:48.  The tie spacing and the ties themselves are larger than Atlas track.  The rail is code 148, which in the larger scale represents lighter weight European rail.  The ties measure 2.295" L X 0.233" W, which scales to 8'7" L X 10.5" W at 1:45.  The tie spacing measures 0.310" or a scale 14".  That works out to about 2600 ties per mile.  In the UK prototype mainlines are usually built with 2640 ties per mile.  Continental European standards vary by country, but are similar.  The height of the ties, however, measures only 0.165".  This dimension is the same as Atlas 2-rail track.  Atlas, Lenz, and MTH track are a nearly perfect match for height and rail dimensions and are easy to mate if one chooses.

Lenz makes sectional curves in 36", 40.5", 65", and 69.5" radius.  All of their turnouts, including the double slip and curved turnouts, are #5's.  MTH is offering sectional curves in 36" and 22" radius.  I asked Mike Wolf about the unusually tight 22" radius curves.  He said their intention is to include them in 2-rail boxed starter sets with track and transformer.  I don't know about in Europe, but in the US I can't recall anyone ever offering 2-rail O starter sets with track and transformer.  At least not since WWII.  Obviously, any such sets will have to include relatively small prototype engines and rolling stock to handle the tight curves.

Originally posted by Keystone Ed...

 

 I hope they get the PRR unique details correct - especially the "passenger" style pilot the PRR standardized on for its EMD F and E units.  Does anyone know if the 2 rail pilot be fixed to the body - or swing with the truck?

That shouldn't be a problem Ed.  My brother, Ted, bought a set of GN F7's in 2-rail.  They came with the correct passenger pilot for the Empire Builder, so they do have the correct tool.  All the items cataloged to date as 2-rail have come with fixed pilots and Kadee mounting pads.  Only the bottom two rungs of the engineers ladder are still mounted on the truck.  All the F-units now have scale wheelbase trucks.

Mr Hikel, you have led a sheltered life.  Here's a short list of 2 rail 0 starter sets with track and transformer for the North American market that come to mind [ additions / corredtions welcomed ]:

1. The Kusan K series sets, circa 1958:  These were the 'all plastic' sets with the Alco cab;  Pittman motor, traction tires, DC, operating on 22" radius track.  And from the same company that pioneered 2-3 rail compatible locomotives, how could you forget....

2.  The 'old Atlas' sets, the ones with the F9

3.  The AHM sets, the ones with the C-liner or the 4 wh Plymouth

4.  Didn't ETS at one time offer 2 rail sets in the US with a transformer ?  They certainly did/do in Europe.

Currently in Europe the Lenz start set is offered with or without a 'transformer' [ eg, DCC base station ].  Historically Rivarossi and Lima offered sets with track and, in lieu of transformers, a battery pack.  As these mfgs mentioned the possibility of outdoor usage, that may have been the logical choice.  [ It's not clear to me if Pola-Maxi sets ever had a power source.]

The Atlas, AHM, and Lima sets came with 24" R curves;  Rivarossi, 32".  I think Pola sets started with the Riv. curves, and then switched to the 24" [ which they were also making for AHM anyway ].

With the exception of the Lenz sets [ and the ETS if my memory has failed me ], all of the above could be seen at past Yorks.

Best regards, SZ

Edited to add:

   I also think it's a little misleading at best to say that the Lenz curved turnouts are #5's;  might it not be better to say that their geometry is designed to work with, inter alia, the #5's ?  Since the inner radius of the Lenz curved turnout is [ only, unfortunately ] 41", that would be equivalent to about a #4.5;  I think a #5 is about 52" equivalent radius.

   I have one of the Lenz slips, and the workmanship / engineering are pretty darn good.  Unfortunately I don't have it on the layout yet [ I thought it might work in a throat area I was rebuilding, but that was set up for #6's or larger, and it just 'didn't fit in'.  Perhaps whenever I get to building the "parcel post annex"....]

Rod sent a link to this chart:

Don't see a lot of application for the curve track IMO, but the  #5 turnouts and slip switch tight curved turnouts will work out in many freight track configurations.

Do not believe this  chart is new.  Seem to remember coming across this page years ago.  tt

The left, right and double slip switches are currently in production as well as most of the sectional track pieces.  The Three way and curved turnouts (65/40.5" rad) are still in the planning stages.   The sectional curves are 36 and 40.5 radius.

Hi all,

 

1. The Kusan K series sets, circa 1958:  These were the 'all plastic' sets with the Alco cab;  Pittman motor, traction tires, DC, operating on 22" radius track.  And from the same company that pioneered 2-3 rail compatible locomotives, how could you forget....

2.  The 'old Atlas' sets, the ones with the F9

3.  The AHM sets, the ones with the C-liner or the 4 wh Plymouth

4.  Didn't ETS at one time offer 2 rail sets in the US with a transformer ?  They certainly did/do in Europe.

Thanks Steinzeit, good to know.  The Kusan, old Atlas, and AHM sets are before my time and I don't recall seeing any complete sets at York or O Scale West in the years I have attended.  Nor do I recall any 2-rail box sets at the ETS booth at York.  They may well have imported some to their dealers.  They have set up some of their 2-rail tram equipment at York, but I don't recall seeing any box sets.

My main point is that there has been a dirth of 2-rail O scale starter sets.  For those of us already immersed in the hobby that can seem like trivial concern.  It's highly unlikely that anyone on this forum would be attracted to purchase a set because of the track and transformer.  However, for those looking at model railroading for the first time, the lack of an "all in one box" path of entry is a real obstacle.  A hobby shop has a much easier time selling these folks a 3-rail O or HO set.  Having a major manufacturer offering complete starter sets should be a good thing for the future of 2-rail O scale.

I also think it's a little misleading at best to say that the Lenz curved turnouts are #5's;  might it not be better to say that their geometry is designed to work with, inter alia, the #5's ?  Since the inner radius of the Lenz curved turnout is [ only, unfortunately ] 41", that would be equivalent to about a #4.5;  I think a #5 is about 52" equivalent radius.

It's not at all misleading.  Switch numbers are not determined by the internal radius.  They are determined by the departure angle of the diverging route.  The diverging route of a #5 switch diverges by 1 inch for every 5 inches of distance down the track.  That equates to an angle of 11.31˚.  All of the Lenz turnouts are built with a departure angle of 11.25˚; a fraction larger than #5.  While the NMRA's RP12.1 may advise a 52 inch radius for the curved potion of a #5, it is only a recommend practice, not a standard.  I certainly agree that wider radius is better, but that doesn't change the defining characteristic of a #5 turnout.

Hi,

 in the Lenz track system there are two more curves:

- R10, 1649,39 mm (65" of radius), for sure in production

- R11, 1763 mm (69.5" of radius, parallel to R10), I think only planned.

If I may offer my unlettered ramblings,

Setup:

On real railways most of us are aware that frogs are usually on a short section of tangent to ease frog picking by the flange.  However on some relatively tight curves I have seen frogs fabricated with a curvature especially with subways and trolleys.

In the model world, working with OP on curved switches Tim was able to use Lou's frog castings for the large radius curved turnouts but on the 50" / 60" radius curved custom switches the straight frogs just could not be made to fit so Tim rolled rail to assemble the frog.  The same way the Fast tracks videos demonstrate curved frog construction.

If you look at the turnout chart of OP & BK industries you will see non curved turnouts listed with their diverging ratio number.  With the curved turnouts you will see them listed as to radii of curvature.

When measuring any turnout with a constant curvature leaving the points  such as the typical three rail traditional "switch tracks" they are not listed as #___.  Rather they are listed, as we are accustomed with 0 scale curved turnouts, by their diverging radius.

When attempting to apply numeric designation to any turnout with one or both diverging tracks curved we can wind up tripping on our shoestrings.

I do not believe it accomplishes anything to apply a numeric frog angle ratio to curved switches in model railroading.

For the sake of a discussion, if a frog angle of curved turnouts is desired to be ascertained.  IMO. the area used to designate the ratio would need to be kept within a predetermined short set distance. Other wise as the curve continues the ratio would further demonstrate why numeric classification is not used for curved turnouts.

What screws everything up is the gray area of when is a turnout is of  a very wide radius with a close difference curvature such as a 225" / 229" curved turnout as used in a single cross over on a model RR.  Also bear in mind this single crossover turnout assembly in 0 scale is shipped in a container almost five feet long. 

Something helpful to bear in mind.  All the turnouts we folks use for our big mainline RRs, the #8s and #10s, they are actually sharper than many real life traction lines. 

Many mainline turnouts (#22, #24, #26)  would not even fit on the footprint of the average real life house lot many live on. 

Jim, if the information I heard is true (2-sources) the 3-way and curved turnouts from Lenz will be here this summer.The Lenz turnouts are not cheap but next to Atlas they are of better quality....

Dennis 

BTW, It is not important but for a time Atlas O and Weaver Models around 10 years ago offered 2 rail O Scale train sets but I am not sure they included track.  The original Atlas O scale line in the early 70's also offered 2 rail boxed sets with track and an HO size transformer.

AHM/Rivarossi also offered O scale sets with track and HO size transformers around 1969/1970.  I remember purchasing 2 sets in Woolworth's after **** at half price in Boston.  AHM advertised these in RMC about that time so someone can look it up if interested. I resold these items years ago.

Finally in 1949 General Models marketed 2 complete O Gauge kit outfits with track, loco and cars.  Quite a bit of assembly was needed though.

J2M

Stienzeit,

I suppose we will have to wait until the curved switches are produced to know for certain that they will be #5's.  However, Lenz's literature describes them as having an 11.25˚ frog angle and an interior radius of 40.5 inches.  Assuming they curve all components of the turnout, as is done with other commercial curved switches, the outer radius will need to be just over 72 inches to be a true #5 curved.  Lenz hasn't cataloged any sectional curves that large, but they have cataloged their R11 curve at 69.5 inch radius.  If they use that for their outer curve it would be closer to a #5.5, but would still round to a #5.

Curved switches are a bit of an odd duck when it comes to switch numbering.  The frog and departure angles are determined by the difference in radii of the two curves.  It is mathematically possible to build a #20 curved turnout with impossibly tight curves.  You'll note that in RP12 the NMRA gives example dimensions for #4, 5, and 6 turnouts all built with an internal radii of 83 inches.  Obviously they are not implying that a curved switch with different dimensions couldn't or shouldn't be built.  Again, it's an RP, not a standard.  They simply offer them as examples of a curved turnout that would meet the numbering system.  It's up to the modeler to know the radius requirements of his equipment when considering such a switch.

Mr Hikel:

  1.  I've not seen anything in Lenz literature [ of the electric version ] that gives the frog angle, just the "angle of departure" [ as you use the term ].  Where specifically has Lenz quoted the frog angle ?

 2.  Yes, the frog and departure angles -- you admit they will differ for a curved turnout -- are determined by the combination of the two radii.  I said that a few days ago.  

 3.  The dimension of 83" [ the dimension in Row 6 of 12.1 ] is only the radius of the switch points [ blade ] and diverging stock rail opposite themselves.  Beyond the pivot points, the figures in Row 11 apply, and for #'s 4, 5, and 6 turnouts, those radii dimensions are 30", 52", and 83".

[ I'm not sure if you understand that RP.x is using the phrase "curved turnout" in a different sense than we have used it in this discussion ?  See para 4 of RP12 itself ]

To reiterate my original point:  To call a turnout with a diverging radius of 40.5" a Number 5 is quite misleading, because a modeller who knows the radius requirements of his equipment, and knows they will go through a conventional #5 [ = 52" curve ], may be in for a disappointment.  This would apply even if the Lenz curved turnouts had a #5 frog; the frog angle itself is moot, as is the "angle of departure". 

Steinzeit