I've not seen anything in Lenz literature [ of the electric version ] that gives the frog angle, just the "angle of departure" [ as you use the term ]. Where specifically has Lenz quoted the frog angle ?
Here you go....http://www.digital-plus.de/spur0-gleissystem.php
Who sells this track?
I've not seen anything in Lenz literature [ of the electric version ] that gives the frog angle, just the "angle of departure" [ as you use the term ]. Where specifically has Lenz quoted the frog angle ?
Here you go....http://www.digital-plus.de/spur0-gleissystem.php
Nope, that's the overall degree of curvature for the curved turnout, or "angle of departure" as you've used the term -- not the frog angle [ it is of course the frog angle where they would coincide, such as the turnouts with a straight leg, the slip, usw ]. Note that curved track sections themselves also have a degree listed; specifically, the R10. Did you also look at the 'track geometry' page ?
As you have said [ at the top of this page ], we'll have to wait and see if the Lenz curved turnout has a #5 frog angle. And as I have said, though in different words, "Who cares? It's not a #5 turnout -- and shouldn't be termed one".
SZ
Bluegill: this is an on-line shop who sell Lenz products: http://www.modellbahnshop-lipp...-gb-p-0/gattung.html . I don't know if they have some limitation to sell in USA.
About the switch and the frog angle: I don't understand if you are talking of the curved switch only or generally of the Lenz's switches. But I have taken two photos of one switch, if can help you. The scale is in millimeter.
Bye
Originally posted by Steinzeit,
Nope, that's the overall degree of curvature for the curved turnout
No, it's not. The figure of 11.25˚ clearly does NOT indicate the total degrees of curvature in the switch.
Did you also look at the 'track geometry' page ?
I did. Unfortunately you seem to be quite mistaken about what is shown.
If you download the Lenz catalog from this site you will see on page 37 that the total degrees of curvature on the inner radius is 30˚. If you then look at page 38 they demonstrate using two full length sections of R2 curves (#45022) at 22.5˚ each, two short sections of R2 curves (#45023) at 7.5˚ each, and a single RH curved switch to create a full 90˚ R2 curve.
In fact, it is impossible to build a curved turnout in O scale with an inner radius of 40.5 inches in only 11.25˚ of curvature. The two routes cannot fully diverge in that short a distance.
It is much more logical to to assume that the figure of 11.25˚ does apply to the frog angle. If that is in fact what Lenz eventually produces, with an inner 40.5 inch radius 30˚ curve and an outer 69.5 inch radius, it will be a #5 curved turnout.
Mr Hikel:
Sure. And since we know that at the heel of the curved turnout we have 30 degrees to go before we are at 90 deg [ "horizontal" on the diagram ], and the R10 section [ the one just before the straight ] is 11.25 degrees of that, that means the wider leg of the turnout is 18.75 degrees. Since the inner leg is 30 degrees, that means the angle of departure [ your term ] = 30 - 18.75 = 11.25. BUT this is the angle at the ends of the turnout, not the frog itself, as the tracks continue to curve beyond the frog.
Maybe we should put this conversation in abeyance until you've had a chance to actually measure the frog angle. [ I'd buy one if I could use it, but the inner radius is too sharp -- unlike a "real #5"]. But as I've said, whatever the frog angle is is moot, and that is the crux of my argument; there is more to a number 5 turnout than just the frog angle.
But thank you very much for posting the website [ "this site" in the above msg ] of Euro Rail Hobbies in BC, which I was going to do anyway. Bluegill, that is the only place I've found in North America that seems to carry the line, which is a shame. Perhaps there are dealers I don't know about; we certainly need them in the US, preferably full line.
Best rgds, SZ
Edited to add: But since writing this message I think I have learned why you, Mr Hikel, are claiming the frog angle alone defines the turnout: Apparently this is or may be standard marketing practice in HO, and curved turnouts with much sharper radii than the corresponding conventional turnout are marketed by frog number -- Walthers, for example -- though the radii is often also specified, thank heavens. Since you have an HO background, is my assumption correct ?
Re Dave Hikel; I have followed your custom track work on other pages and want to recognize your extremely fine craftsmanship. Thank you for what you bring to the hobby and the detailed individual help you have provided.
Re NMRA numbered turnouts and curves: If I am following this discussion correctly....It is my impression that the substitute replacement radius that NMRA gives for numbered turnouts of conventional design is at best a theoretical soft fit. Especially if someone would think that a numbered angled switch can be simply cut into a curve. In reality it is definately a fudge fit at best.
I'm not sure that it would be fair just by determining a frog's angle to then translate that into a "numbered" switch.
Yes all frogs have an angle, but having an angle and converting that to a numbered ratio may provide a less than a clear understanding in the comparative market place.
In any event it is great to have folks thinking in more detail about their trackwork.
Dave how about a refresher posting of some of your custom switches and track work? tt
Originally Posted by Steinzeit:
>Bluegill, that is the only place I've found in North America that seems to carry the line, which is a shame. Perhaps there are dealers I don't know about; we certainly need them in the US, preferably full line.
I lost track of what we're talking about. Someone just posted this site and I read through it briefly.
http://www.lbfoster.com/Rail/r...F_Rail-Trackwork.pdf
Cool to see how big these things are in real life.
Who sells this track?
I posted this info on page one, but since it went unnoticed.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
