MTH Challenger RK-1108

Try using 30-1188-1.

Hello Chuck.  Thank you for your reply.

I saw the 2-page "frequently requested parts list" but no diagram.  Being unfamiliar with MTH, I don't know if the two models are the same mechanically.  Is it just that the 1188 model has PS1 from the factory but all else is the same?

Is there a diagram for that model lurking about somewhere?

Specifically, I'm looking for diagrams for the trucks/motors.

The MTH parts site seems incomplete, unless I'm overlooking something.

Cheers!

Darrin

Yes, that is the only documentation available for the railking challenger. The parts are the same as on yours. No exploded diagrams for the engine or motors.

Ok, thank you Chuck.  I'll just have to guess if the description matches the parts I need.

What specific parts are you looking for?

Stewart Wilson in England has been looking for motor parts for his early MTH challenger. He was told by MTH many items needed are not available any longer. Good luck.

Replacement motors are available from MTH. I'm sure most other parts are as well.

I'm looking for worm wheels, pickup rollers, and a smoke unit.

The smoke unit is not on the parts list for the 1188 (I have an 1108 so no proto-anything).

The worm wheel is not listed.  I call it a worm wheel but maybe MTH calls it something else.  This is the brass (bronze?) gear that presses on to the main drive axle and engages with the worm on the motor shaft.  I assume I can replace one of these much like a Lionel postwar Berk or Turbine.  Please enlighten me if that's a poor assumption...

If the pickup rollers are the same as for the 1188, it appears the entire pickup assembly is: BD-0000013.

I'd also consider a couple of motors with worms for spares if reasonably priced. RS-385PH (RD545824) with brass flywheels.

Cheers!

D

It's OK Chuck, I appreciate your reply and your sympathy.  Fortunately, I'm not in for that much so it will make a nice doorstop.

I was always told that MTH products are great when they are running and a nightmare from the darkest depths of **** when they need parts/service - the opposite of Lionel postwar motive power.  I guess I had to experience MTH firsthand before I could form an opinion.

Now I have.

Thank you again for your insight.

Best,

Darrin

I fear that it will not be too many years after manufacture, that most newer locomotives will be in the same boat parts wise. The days of large parts stocks and interchangeability between many models is quickly becoming, or has become a thing of the past, at least on mid-range and higher equipment.

Doug

Drive blocks are $75 and require turn in.  It is not hard to press the gear off, but it would be a unique size most likely.  You can always pull it and see if you can have one manufactured.  G

Turn in?  You mean like a core?  As in I would have to send the bad drive block in before I could get a new one?  Why?

Seems unlikely I could get a worm wheel manufactured anywhere for $75.  And if a new drive block has new bearings on all axles, I may as well go that route.

I was considering talking to NWSL to see what options they have available for getting it repowered with better motors and lower gearing so I can have more realistic low speeds.

Thanks for your input, G.

-Darrin

Certainly sad.  I started learning about mechanical and electrical basics by repairing Lionel locomotives side-by-side with my dad when I was 8.  It was the foundation for a successful career as an engineer later on.

Yes, A core.  I have ordered and replaced block for folks before.  MTH gears hold up very well, if worn normally the motor was not attached correctly, vice too many miles wore it out. 

Correction on the price also.  I recently did a Big Boy and the block was $50. G

Well, cost-wise, it's sounding better all the time...  if I only had a part number!  I've been doing some more research and perhaps "Midge" at MTH can help me next week.

RE: wear

The worm wheel, on the front truck only, is dished out in the center.  There appears to have been plenty of lube present and the screws holding the motor to the mount and the mount to the drive block all seem correct and engaged properly.  The shaft on the motor runs true, as does the axle/worm wheel combination.  It does have a lot of miles on it, as the roller pickups are notched.  I noticed it when attempting the slow starts, the front truck would "pop" - indicating an issue somewhere in the drive train.  The worm is not meshing completely with the worm wheel at slow speed.

There is some end play in the armature shaft but I don't know if that would cause it.  If MTH can help and the prices are reasonable, I may just have them match a new drive block/motor combination.

Soooo, why do they require a core exchange?  Do they rebuild them?

Thanks!

D

Ah, the Good Old Days, when you could get parts...yeah, for a poor selection of products

using the same (typically inaccurate) running gear over and over and over...

If we want a huge selection of accurate models (and we do), part of the "price" of that

is a parts selection that, of necessity, will be less universal than those for that same

AC, open-frame, 3-axle power unit that was found in every...and so on. I'll take

the difficulties of better product selection (and more accurate products) any day over

an endless supply of little variety. 

Now, I sympathize with those needing parts - I love to bash things and I really, really

hope that MTH finally gets its Parts act together ("copy Lionel; copy Lionel; copy Lionel";

chant until achieved). But the Good Old Days are now. (I'm 66 years old.)

I have one of those locos; originally whistle only.  I upgraded it to PS2.  It has, and always has had, one smoke unit feeding the two stacks.  It has had one MTH smoke unit; never had 2 Seuthes.  I did have to rewire the smoke unit to change the heaters from parallel to series or vice versa (I forget which). 

MTH has since reissued the RK Challenger several times.  It is hard to believe that they would have made major changes to the gear system, so it might be worth talking to Midge &/or  at MTH to see what she has to say.

Given the price of a new Challenger, some reasearch on parts is justified.

Thanks for chiming in RJR-

I found some info in some other posts about how to contact Midge at MTH so I'll give her a shout this week and try to get the story straight from her.

This particular locomotive was bashed from the UP version to an NP Z8.  The deceased gentleman who owned her did a really nice custom job on the pilot and the boiler front with the Westinghouse compound pumps, changing the bell, deleting one smoke stack, and many other details.  The paint is not quite right yet (he wasn't able to finish it, sadly) and so If I can rescue her with replacement mechanical parts, I'll probably finish her the way his notes and sketches indicate.

I was wondering if the newer MTH Challengers were mechanically the same but with perhaps different boilers and added electronics.  Seems like the driveline should be the same but, again, I have no prior experience with how MTH designs and produces things.

How difficult was it to upgrade to PS2 (besides rewiring the smoke unit)?  Like yours, this one has only the whistle and electronic e-unit.

Cheers!

D

It was one of the easier upgrades I've done.  Biggest issues were the smoke unit rewire and I had toenlarge, with a moto tool, the opening for the tethersocket.  Be sure insulate the components on the socket so they can't contact the frame.

Ok. Thanks.