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I purchased a used Bi-Polar #20-5607-1. In conventional mode, I have no sound. The engine runs and smokes though. At first the class and marker lamps did not work, but I was finally able to get them working by re-setting to the default, or at least that was what I was trying to do, when they all of a sudden came on. An authroized repair station suggested I do not replace the battery, as he has yet to see a battery go dead. He suggests getting the engine onto a DCS layout, which I can do in the future. Now the questions. I opened up the unit, and had a devil of a time, ended up pulling off the complete middle section (boiler compartment in real life). I could then get at the rest of the screws to pull ther two sections of the body. Was this center section suppose to just pull off?? Also I noted the pantagraphs do not unscrew from the top; apparently you have to loosed the nut inside the body. Is this the right way to approach all of this?  I also noted that when the engine went through a curve, the one end of the body stayed off kilter, instead of re-aligning itself. And I noted screws missing for the truck frame sides, which I will have to buy from MTH. Hope you people can shed some light on all this; it also loooks like a nightmare trying to re assemble and plugging into the middle section all at the same time.

 

Thanks for helping me.

 

 

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A few points, from a Bi-Polar owner who has taken them apart several times.

 

1. In a PS/2 engine, the battery is irrelevant to whether or not the sound comes on. If the  unit runs, the sound should work. That said, your LHS is dead wrong about the battery. They go bad over time, either through memory effect or chemical deterioration. Usually even a degraded battery will be enough to keep a PS/2 locomotive operating, unlike a PS/1 unit which is much more dependent on a good battery. In fact, the battery in one of my Bi-Polars went bad a year or two ago; I replaced it with a BCR so I wouldn't have to open the thing up again.

 

2. Starting with the obvious, have you checked to make sure the volume control is turned all the way up? The volume control only functions in conventional mode (in DCS mode, the volume pot is out of the circuit and the handheld unit controls volume).

 

3. Another thing to check is the connection to the speaker, and the condition of the speaker itself. Early PS/2 speakers go bad with some regularity. You can usually spot a bum speaker by the fact that plating is flaking off the metal parts. Normally a bad speaker just sounds awful, but it could be completely blown. The good news is that speakers are cheap, easy to replace, and the replacements are reliable and sound better than the originals did when they were new.

 

4. Putting the unit on a DCS layout is a good idea. You can do a complete reset and see if the sound comes on. The fact that the lights came on after a non-DCS reset suggests that something is out of whack and a reset under DCS might help.   Of course, to do that you have to get the thing back together, which as you've discovered, isn't all that easy.

 

5. I feel your pain with taking the thing apart. The segments can be detached without tools, if I remember correctly. You have to fiddle around with the pivot points, get the segments semi-apart, then unplug the wires connecting the ends to the middle. You are correct about the pans having to be attached from the inside. It's a pain, because it's possible to loosen them from the outside and then you have to take the thing apart to get them tight again. Be sure the nuts are nice and snug before reassembling the center segment.

 

6. The body not centering properly coming out of a curve may be caused by wires bunched up inside somewhere blocking the motion. I've found this to be pretty common on all kinds of diesel and electric locomotives. 

 

7. You don't actually have to get the truck screws from MTH. I forget what size they are (probably M3), but if you have a big Ace Hardware or a decent hobby shop nearby, you should be able to take one of the screws in and match the threads. In the long run, a thread gauge is an excellent investment. Mine are called "Screw Check'r" and "Metric Screw Check'r." You'll probably have to cut off whatever screws you buy, but it's quicker than waiting for the parts to arrive from MTH. 

 

8. Reconnecting the three segments is an obnoxious job. The trouble is in getting the plugs connected and the segments aligned at the same time. I usually use a large angle-head tweezers to handle the plugs. Other than that, I can't offer a lot of advice; I've done it entirely too many times, but the secret is in what the Germans call "Fingerspitzgefuhl," which one acquires through experience. 

 

9. Did you get the instruction manual with the secondhand unit? If not, you should be able to download it from the MTH site. I seem to recall that it has some useful advice on disassembly and reassembly. 

 

Good luck. 

I have the all black PS 2 version from 2007(20-5608-1); I'd like to hear more re: opening(taking it apart) and reassembling this 3 piece model. Of special interest, to me, separating the 3 body segments and reassembling... how is that "actually done?

 

I just looked at the manual that came with the model, and it doesn't provide any detailed information. I haven't needed to take mine apart yet, but that day will eventually come.

 

Do you need 2 pairs of angle-head tweezers/pliers; where do you purchase them?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Rick

 

 

Rick,

Do you need 2 pairs of angle-head tweezers/pliers

The only special tool you need is one needle-nosed pliers that has a bent tip. That's what I use to re-insert the very short tethers between the three units. Then, connect the units using their pin and slot connectors. Last, push the curtains back into place with a pliers or, better, a tweezer.

 

The units themselves are connected only by the tethers and a pin-and-slot arrangement. To separate them completely is almost as easy as just lifting up on the two outer units without suppporting the middle unit.

 

I learned this the very first time I attempted to put the engine on the track. That's also when I learned how to use the bent-nose pliers to put the tethers back in.

Really like the loco but it is a bear to take apart and put back together. Thanks for all the info. One other thing you have to be careful of is chipping the top corners of the units when you assemble them. By the way I switched out the original pantographs to MTH scale ones. Sorry to say they are no longer available as parts. They look and work better than the oversized Lionel type that came with the electric. Don

bipoler

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Didn't know that about the pantographs not being scale. I have three of these in storage for years and had I known I would have ordered the scale pantographs when they were available.  Still good to know!

 

Originally Posted by scale rail:

Really like the loco but it is a bear to take apart and put back together. Thanks for all the info. One other thing you have to be careful of is chipping the top corners of the units when you assemble them. By the way I switched out the original pantographs to MTH scale ones. Sorry to say they are no longer available as parts. They look and work better than the oversized Lionel type that came with the electric. Don

bipoler

Originally Posted by Southwest Hiawatha:

A few points, from a Bi-Polar owner who has taken them apart several times.

 

1. In a PS/2 engine, the battery is irrelevant to whether or not the sound comes on. If the  unit runs, the sound should work. That said, your LHS is dead wrong about the battery. They go bad over time, either through memory effect or chemical deterioration. Usually even a degraded battery will be enough to keep a PS/2 locomotive operating, unlike a PS/1 unit which is much more dependent on a good battery. In fact, the battery in one of my Bi-Polars went bad a year or two ago; I replaced it with a BCR so I wouldn't have to open the thing up again.

 

2. Starting with the obvious, have you checked to make sure the volume control is turned all the way up? The volume control only functions in conventional mode (in DCS mode, the volume pot is out of the circuit and the handheld unit controls volume).

 

3. Another thing to check is the connection to the speaker, and the condition of the speaker itself. Early PS/2 speakers go bad with some regularity. You can usually spot a bum speaker by the fact that plating is flaking off the metal parts. Normally a bad speaker just sounds awful, but it could be completely blown. The good news is that speakers are cheap, easy to replace, and the replacements are reliable and sound better than the originals did when they were new.

 

4. Putting the unit on a DCS layout is a good idea. You can do a complete reset and see if the sound comes on. The fact that the lights came on after a non-DCS reset suggests that something is out of whack and a reset under DCS might help.   Of course, to do that you have to get the thing back together, which as you've discovered, isn't all that easy.

 

5. I feel your pain with taking the thing apart. The segments can be detached without tools, if I remember correctly. You have to fiddle around with the pivot points, get the segments semi-apart, then unplug the wires connecting the ends to the middle. You are correct about the pans having to be attached from the inside. It's a pain, because it's possible to loosen them from the outside and then you have to take the thing apart to get them tight again. Be sure the nuts are nice and snug before reassembling the center segment.

 

6. The body not centering properly coming out of a curve may be caused by wires bunched up inside somewhere blocking the motion. I've found this to be pretty common on all kinds of diesel and electric locomotives. 

 

7. You don't actually have to get the truck screws from MTH. I forget what size they are (probably M3), but if you have a big Ace Hardware or a decent hobby shop nearby, you should be able to take one of the screws in and match the threads. In the long run, a thread gauge is an excellent investment. Mine are called "Screw Check'r" and "Metric Screw Check'r." You'll probably have to cut off whatever screws you buy, but it's quicker than waiting for the parts to arrive from MTH. 

 

8. Reconnecting the three segments is an obnoxious job. The trouble is in getting the plugs connected and the segments aligned at the same time. I usually use a large angle-head tweezers to handle the plugs. Other than that, I can't offer a lot of advice; I've done it entirely too many times, but the secret is in what the Germans call "Fingerspitzgefuhl," which one acquires through experience. 

 

9. Did you get the instruction manual with the secondhand unit? If not, you should be able to download it from the MTH site. I seem to recall that it has some useful advice on disassembly and reassembly. 

 

Good luck. 

THANKS A BUNCH!! I was hoping someone like yourself would furnish an in depth procedure and comments!!

 

Jeff

Originally Posted by scale rail:

Really like the loco but it is a bear to take apart and put back together. Thanks for all the info. One other thing you have to be careful of is chipping the top corners of the units when you assemble them. By the way I switched out the original pantographs to MTH scale ones. Sorry to say they are no longer available as parts. They look and work better than the oversized Lionel type that came with the electric. Don

 

 

 

Ahhhh, now I know how my used engine with chipped corners actually happened!! The seller didn't go into any of this. I see you have catenary. Are you pulling power from it? How did you build yours??

 

Jeff

 

bipoler

 

I guess I need a further description of your "tethers". Are you talking about those "Peg" looking pieces that the middle section somehow sit down onto them? Also, mu init has screws on the ends of the two bodies. Thus, I had to remove the middle section, so I could get at these two screws on the ends of the two bodies. Those curtains look like a real problem, so using tweezers should give me a hand with the difficult procedure. Thanks!
 
Jeff
 
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:

Rick,

Do you need 2 pairs of angle-head tweezers/pliers

The only special tool you need is one needle-nosed pliers that has a bent tip. That's what I use to re-insert the very short tethers between the three units. Then, connect the units using their pin and slot connectors. Last, push the curtains back into place with a pliers or, better, a tweezer.

 

The units themselves are connected only by the tethers and a pin-and-slot arrangement. To separate them completely is almost as easy as just lifting up on the two outer units without suppporting the middle unit.

 

I learned this the very first time I attempted to put the engine on the track. That's also when I learned how to use the bent-nose pliers to put the tethers back in.

 

Originally Posted by Jeff B. Haertlein:
Originally Posted by Southwest Hiawatha:

A few points, from a Bi-Polar owner who has taken them apart several times.

 

1. In a PS/2 engine, the battery is irrelevant to whether or not the sound comes on. If the  unit runs, the sound should work. That said, your LHS is dead wrong about the battery. They go bad over time, either through memory effect or chemical deterioration. Usually even a degraded battery will be enough to keep a PS/2 locomotive operating, unlike a PS/1 unit which is much more dependent on a good battery. In fact, the battery in one of my Bi-Polars went bad a year or two ago; I replaced it with a BCR so I wouldn't have to open the thing up again.

 

2. Starting with the obvious, have you checked to make sure the volume control is turned all the way up? The volume control only functions in conventional mode (in DCS mode, the volume pot is out of the circuit and the handheld unit controls volume).

 

3. Another thing to check is the connection to the speaker, and the condition of the speaker itself. Early PS/2 speakers go bad with some regularity. You can usually spot a bum speaker by the fact that plating is flaking off the metal parts. Normally a bad speaker just sounds awful, but it could be completely blown. The good news is that speakers are cheap, easy to replace, and the replacements are reliable and sound better than the originals did when they were new.

 

4. Putting the unit on a DCS layout is a good idea. You can do a complete reset and see if the sound comes on. The fact that the lights came on after a non-DCS reset suggests that something is out of whack and a reset under DCS might help.   Of course, to do that you have to get the thing back together, which as you've discovered, isn't all that easy.

 

5. I feel your pain with taking the thing apart. The segments can be detached without tools, if I remember correctly. You have to fiddle around with the pivot points, get the segments semi-apart, then unplug the wires connecting the ends to the middle. You are correct about the pans having to be attached from the inside. It's a pain, because it's possible to loosen them from the outside and then you have to take the thing apart to get them tight again. Be sure the nuts are nice and snug before reassembling the center segment.

 

6. The body not centering properly coming out of a curve may be caused by wires bunched up inside somewhere blocking the motion. I've found this to be pretty common on all kinds of diesel and electric locomotives. 

 

7. You don't actually have to get the truck screws from MTH. I forget what size they are (probably M3), but if you have a big Ace Hardware or a decent hobby shop nearby, you should be able to take one of the screws in and match the threads. In the long run, a thread gauge is an excellent investment. Mine are called "Screw Check'r" and "Metric Screw Check'r." You'll probably have to cut off whatever screws you buy, but it's quicker than waiting for the parts to arrive from MTH. 

 

8. Reconnecting the three segments is an obnoxious job. The trouble is in getting the plugs connected and the segments aligned at the same time. I usually use a large angle-head tweezers to handle the plugs. Other than that, I can't offer a lot of advice; I've done it entirely too many times, but the secret is in what the Germans call "Fingerspitzgefuhl," which one acquires through experience. 

 

9. Did you get the instruction manual with the secondhand unit? If not, you should be able to download it from the MTH site. I seem to recall that it has some useful advice on disassembly and reassembly. 

 

Good luck. 

THANKS A BUNCH!! I was hoping someone like yourself would furnish an in depth procedure and comments!!

 

Jeff

Before I head to work today, another question on the subject. When I pulled the steam boiler section, where the tethers are, the frame came up too, thus I have two sections of the body. Was this supposed to happen, or was the frame supposeed to stay attached on the "pegs" of the other frames? I am hoping to get back to the project this week on my days off, if I get the chance. Thanks!!

 

Jeff

Each of the three segments is one piece and remains as a unit when the segments are separated. So, the way yours came apart is the way it is supposed to. 

 

Before I head to work today, another question on the subject. When I pulled the steam boiler section, where the tethers are, the frame came up too, thus I have two sections of the body. Was this supposed to happen, or was the frame supposeed to stay attached on the "pegs" of the other frames? I am hoping to get back to the project this week on my days off, if I get the chance. Thanks!!

 

Jeff

Originally Posted by Southwest Hiawatha:

Each of the three segments is one piece and remains as a unit when the segments are separated. So, the way yours came apart is the way it is supposed to. 

 

Before I head to work today, another question on the subject. When I pulled the steam boiler section, where the tethers are, the frame came up too, thus I have two sections of the body. Was this supposed to happen, or was the frame supposeed to stay attached on the "pegs" of the other frames? I am hoping to get back to the project this week on my days off, if I get the chance. Thanks!!

 

Jeff

Hello to Southwest Hiawatha. I got the engine put back together today, and all your help was a BIG help!! I still have one problem, and that is the one section (body) still wants to stay a tad out of alignment, in other words, it does not swing back 100% after a curve. One thought was wiring, but I don't know for sure, or what I did or didn't do, but it still stays out a little bit, and makes for an Odd look!  Thanks.

 

Jeff

Originally Posted by Jeff B. Haertlein:
 

Hello to Southwest Hiawatha. I got the engine put back together today, and all your help was a BIG help!! I still have one problem, and that is the one section (body) still wants to stay a tad out of alignment, in other words, it does not swing back 100% after a curve. One thought was wiring, but I don't know for sure, or what I did or didn't do, but it still stays out a little bit, and makes for an Odd look!  Thanks.

 

Jeff

 

Hard to say without seeing it, but it could well be a wire stuck under something and interfering with the movement of the segments.  This is one of those things that "play it by ear" or "fingerspitzgefuhl" is usually the way to handle it. The first thing I would do is just fiddle with it to see how it feels - where and how strong the resistance is to coming into line properly. There could be some problem with the wire bundle where it comes through the opening between segments. You also could have a wire stuck somewhere. It's really hard to give advice from a distance, but I think your fist thought that it's a wire is the likeliest. You may have to pull it partially apart again and reroute some wires. 

The 2007 run of Bi-Polars had the improved pans. The first two runs, in 2000 and 2003, had the original type without the extra loops. 
 
Originally Posted by Jeff B. Haertlein:
These are the same pans that are on my Bi Polar #20-5607.
 
Originally Posted by scale rail:

Paul, the Milwaukee scale pantographs fit right on the same holes as the old ones. Milwaukee had unique Pans. I used the same ones that were on my MTH Little Joes. Don

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