MTH PROTO-SOUND 1.0 ENGINE WON'T RESET, I NEED HELP PLEASE!

I don't have any actual advice for your specific problem, just some general tips about Proto 1:

Did you replace the Ni-Cd battery yet? If not, it may be too late. But for you it sounds like you have a chance if you do it now.  A chance that is, to keep things from getting worse than they are now. Many recommend a YLB (Your Last Battery) from Hennings Trains.

In my experience, when I stored my two Proto 1 locomotives for an entire year at a time, between Christmas running sessions, the Ni-Cd battery slowly drained out and went bad, shorting out the electronics, causing seemingly random strange behaviors that kept getting worse as time went on, until I learned more about the Ni-Cd issue. But by then it was too late for me and both locomotives would no longer run reliably at all. I had to rip out the entire Proto 1 electronics and install ERR Cruise Commander, which doesn't need a battery.

Hopefully someone else will reply with better news.

Three clanks?

Maybe need to descramble the board. You need a reset chip for that. There maybe different ways to get your engine running. I am sure others that are more knowing will chime in here.

Tom

@Sagar W posted:

I don't have any actual advice for your specific problem, just some general tips about Proto 1:

Did you replace the Ni-Cd battery yet? If not, it may be too late. But for you it sounds like you have a chance if you do it now.  A chance that is, to keep things from getting worse than they are now. Many recommend a YLB (Your Last Battery) from Hennings Trains.

In my experience, when I stored my two Proto 1 locomotives for an entire year at a time, between Christmas running sessions, the Ni-Cd battery slowly drained out and went bad, shorting out the electronics, causing seemingly random strange behaviors that kept getting worse as time went on, until I learned more about the Ni-Cd issue. But by then it was too late for me and both locomotives would no longer run reliably at all. I had to rip out the entire Proto 1 electronics and install ERR Cruise Commander, which doesn't need a battery.

Hopefully someone else will reply with better news.

Thank you for your reply.   This is happening on 2 identical engines.  The MTH 20-2189-1 Amtrak Genesis PS 1.0.  The sounds on #46 don't sputter in forward though.  The Energizer NIMH 8.4 volt batteries are up to charge.  These are the ones I have in them.

Could it be my Z4000? 

Which loco are we talkin about, whats the model number?

@Penn-Pacific posted:

Which loco are we talkin about, whats the model number?

The MTH 20-2189-1 Amtrak Genesis PS 1.0.

@Krieglok posted:

Three clanks?

Maybe need to descramble the board. You need a reset chip for that. There maybe different ways to get your engine running. I am sure others that are more knowing will chime in here.

Tom

Descrambling is a key step. Is the issue with the sounds only? Will the engine run without sound? What is the condition of the speaker? It is common for the plating on the speaker to flake and cause an internal short.

You need this.

You're all too far in front and skipping several important steps as a result.

1.) It could be "stuck" in 'reset' because of the kind of transformer being used.  Before getting fancy with anything new please try an old-fashioned one, i.e. one with no electronics in it.  The voltage on the output of the transformer must go down to zero when you position the throttle at fully closed.

2.) It could be stuck in 'reset' because you're not applying your power with the specific sequence required by PS-1's, which is:.  Apply full power.  Wait for battery to charge (hours if you haven't used it in six months or more), or BCR, if installed instead, to charge (5 minutes max).  Bring the throttle down to half then hit the direction button.  It should start moving.  Be aware that there is apparently a different approach for the very earliest PS-1's, involving the opposite motions with the throttle.

3.) It could be stuck in 'neutral' because it's been previously locked in neutral.  Your attempt to do a 'factory reset' should have cleared this if this was the problem.

4.) If after all this, you get 3 clanks every time you power it up then you can assume that it might be scrambled.

Follow this link for more detail, embedded within a previous poster's related question on Protosound 1:

   Rock island set MT-2127LP | Merlin

This one has very specific detail on the process that works for me:

   Protosounds stuff using a TPC-300, 6-14189, powered by a PH-180, and controlled by a CAB-2 | Mellow Hudson Mike

This link cites the alternative approach, which for whatever reason is quite different, that was published back in the day, apparently by MTH.  It does not work on my Proto 1's, which are all later vintage:

   PS1 Cautionary Note | mort1345

Good luck, and let us know how things turn out.

Mike

His three clanks correspond with the three clinks for reset 18. It wouldn’t move if they were the three clanks of death.

Get back to basics, and remove some variables from your troubleshooting.

Hook your Z4000 up to a short piece of test track and eliminate any variables that your layout or wiring could be causing.  Test both handles.

Your Z4000 is specifically designed to work with PS1 engines, but the problem could still lie there.  Using an old postwar transformer would be good to test against.

Instead of using the built in Z4000 program features, run the throttle manually in reset mode to get your 3 clanks & clinks.

When using a Z4000, it is not necessary to immediately ramp the power up to 18 volts and then idle down, this procedure may be needed on transformers that use modified sine wave output (like the ZW-C or ZW-L) as the PS1 board may get confused when starting at low voltage and not leave the reset mode. The TIU has a specific PS1 start up that behaves this way because the TIU variable outputs use modified sine waves.

A PS1 engine will not leave reset mode and go into forward unless the voltage is under 10 volts, this also prevents a rocket style take off.

Directly from the manual:

When the engine first enters RESET, the microprocessor initiates a system check to determine if the
system, transformer and engine are operating correctly. This takes
approximately 2.2 seconds during which you will hear the engine’s
compressor sounds begin. In order for ProtoSounds® to properly initiate
the system check, do not advance the transformer throttle past 10 volts
when you first enter RESET, wait for the compressor sounds to begin and
then slowly turn the transformer throttle to the off position and then back
on again to enter the forward phase. Interrupting the power too quickly
may cause the system to re-enter RESET (signaled by two dings of the
bell). Should this happen, wait longer before interrupting the power to
enter the Forward phase

H you need to follow the steps many have said if all check's out but still not function correctly I've seen the program sound prom IC fail and would need to be replaced specific ic for your specific engine MTH sells them but you have to give them you item engine item number so they can program the ic for you specific the prom cost $30.00 plus shipping! Alan see your sound chip below and fine your specific engine!

like part number AE4500152 big boy ps1 steam engine, you never said what engine you have!

Alan

The OP stated this same behavior is happening on two engines. The likely hood of two engines with the same failure at the same time on the same layout is low but not impossible. A test bench is the best way to remove the unknown variables of transformer, layout, track, wiring, etc. I think the common denominator is something with more to do with the environment vs. the engines themselves.

I too have seen IC failures but they are few and far between. If you want to test the IC, simply swap an IC from a working engine and check the operation. I've repaired lots of PS1 engines and only once needed a new IC, in that situation it was totally dead, not working even in the slightest.

What is the actual problem?  Did you do the reset via programming button on the Z-4000 or manually by raising and lowering voltage?  Once in reset state you press select button twice following instructions to get garbled and clear ding on first press.  Second press reset other features.  Then you take out of program mode and raise throttle voltage to get enigne moving.  On shut down it will lock in the reset if battery is good.  G