Rock island set MT-2127LP

Merlin,

This locomotive is quite old, from 1996 to be precise.  It has Protosound electronics, which will work with most (some?) standard transformers, in what is known as "conventional" mode, i.e. just like an old-fashioned loco from back in the 1950's.  However, because Protosound is known to be finicky, especially from 1996 or thereabouts, you have to be careful about how you start it up.

Unlike a standard diesel from the 50's this one does not go Neutral-Forward-Neutral-Reverse-Neutral-Forward and so on as you cycle the throttle handle on the transformer up and down.  Instead it responds this way: Reset-Forward-Neutral-Reverse-Neutral-Forward, etc.

Reset is very important.  When you first push throttle lever up after sitting for more than about two minutes you need to go above 10 volts AC and leave it there for a minute or two (10 or more if it hasn't been run in many years).  When you bring it back down come down to 8 volts and stay there for a minute.  Only after doing all this will cycling the throttle handle make it go through Forward-Neutral-Reverse-Neutral etc. just like any other conventional loco.

One more warning: If the sounds quit immediately after you drop the throttle to zero (after the 10 minutes) stop immediately and don't go any farther.  You need a new battery inside.  If you don't put one in you can scramble the software in the electronics badly -- not fatal, but a serious pain in the butt to reprogram.

Good Luck.

Mike

Yes, that was the first thing I did is replace the battery. All the sounds and lights are good. It confuses me with the transformer stuff. Trying to read the book it states that it can be in the lock position and must unlock it using different cycles on the transformer. Am I getting that right? Scratching my head!

OK.  Here's the procedure for unlocking, assuming it's currently locked in Neutral:

Make sure that the engine is not in "Reset" when you attempt this.  That is: First put it in "Reset" (power it up to above 10 volts), and then cycle the throttle handle ("Off" and then back "On" to about 8 volts), then follow the above procedure.

If the above doesn't do it you may have to do a Master Reset.  We can walk you through that procedure if it becomes necessary.

Mike

Which transformer are you using? I have the 20-2152 which has the identical manual on the MTH site.  It runs fine on my KW. It definitely doesn’t like the newer Lionel chopped sine wave transformers. The manual says it’s compatible with the RS-1 but there was a thread a few months back involving a member from Australia having difficulty running a PS1 engine with an RS-1. When he changed transformers the problem went away.

I looked in the book for my transformer capabilities but the Lionel cw80 was not in the book. Is the cw80 under a different transformer name?

The first thing I did when I purchased this was replace the battery. It had some little red dry battery in it that I never seen before.

I think that ‘red’ battery is a BCR, which would be good.  The CW80 is not a recommended transformer for those MTH early sets.  Get a different transformer.

CW-80 is a chopped sine wave transformer. It was introduced after MTH came out with PS1. They are not compatible. Lionel put out a good YouTube video on the CW-80 and how it works.

There are a lot of CW-80 haters on this forum although I never had any problems with mine. I only use it to power accessories these days.

Merlin,

Here's a copy of the 'list of recommended transformers' from 1996.  You'll notice that the CW-80 is not on it, primarily because it was introduced after 1996.  As has been pointed out it may not work so well with PS1 locos, based on the experience of many forumites.

In spite of this there are a number of transformers that will work, and that are also not on this list because they are too new as well.

My suggestion however is that you start with one of them that is because you'll have the best luck with it:

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Merlin,

Here's a copy of the 'list of recommended transformers' from 1996.  You'll notice that the CW-80 is not on it, primarily because it was introduced after 1996.  As has been pointed out it may not work so well with PS1 locos, based on the experience of many forumites.

In spite of this there are a number of transformers that will work, and that are also not on this list because they are too new as well.

My suggestion however is that you start with one of them that is because you'll have the best luck with it:

Mike

The CW-80 didn’t exist in 1996, so how could it even be considered for this list?

Several people here have offered enough information, but let’s consolidate the information.

First of all, the battery. If you have a BCR (what you described as a little red battery), use that. Go online and learn what it is and how to properly charge it up before each use (it’s a simple 60-second routine). A BCR (Battery Component Replacement) is not a battery. It’s a capacitor circuit that replaces the battery.

Also, if you tried to install a new MTH battery, you do realize it has to be charged first, right? Follow MTH instructions.

Second, compatible transformers. Certain original Protosounds locomotives made in 1986 and 1997 will not work with chopped wave output transformers. The CW-80, which came out after 2001, is such a transformer. However, if you read the MTH instructions and follow them, you will know if this the problem. If you followed the steps as described (setting the voltage to less than 10 volts when powering up, then pushing the direction button to take it out of reset and move it forward and then increasing the voltage), the locomotive should work. But after following those steps and you still get the two clanks, it is likely the transformer/loco combination that’s the problem. (Again, this is assuming you have the BCR or battery properly charged beforehand.)

Third, electronic failure. If you are hearing three clanks, it means the chip has been scrambled by a low battery state. It’s correctible, but it’s apparent this is something you aren’t going to be able to fix yourself (since this is all beyond your hobby experience at this point). So find a repair shop or source who handles MTH. They’ll know what to do.

@Jim R. posted:

The CW-80 didn’t exist in 1996, so how could it even be considered for this list?

Jim,

I thought that I was quite clear:

Sorry for any confusion.

Mike

Sorry, Mike, you made it clear, but that list was outdated so long ago it causes confusion.

Thanks for the replies I really appreciate it In very fine detail. I called my buddy up and I’m gonna bring the train over to his house. He has the older transformers that will work with this train. The MTH Battery was fully charged when I installed it. The directions clearly state to change the red dry battery after 5 years. That was the first thing I did when I received the train. The good news is all the sounds are clear and crisp and stays on after I cut power for a few seconds so I know the battery is working fine. I will reply in this thread if the different transformer works or not. I hope by following the directions I can get it out of Neutral. Thanks for all responses. You guys are the best!