Disregard; I've made up my mind of this move.
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If you're really looking to do this, why not buy modern conventional boards, perhaps from Dallee? Why try to use a twenty year old board?
Or just use Williams reverse boards. They are pretty bulletproof, at least the pre Bachmann ones are. Another option for sounds are Lionel Trainsounds boards. Price is comparible to Williams and the sound can be much better. Just make sure its one of the newer boards like the ones from the starter set 0-8-0 or the Conventional Classics.
Pete
SJC, are you going to part with your PS2 board for the diesel engine?
Why not sell your PS2 locos and rebuy conventional ones? You'd likely come out ahead, no?
All - appreciate the input. I'm 100% serious on doing this project. As of now, I'm dropping the diesel off next weekend. The steam engine will soon follow. I've been wanting to make this move for a while as the diesel is really not functional in a DCS environment. Only lower voltage conventional will allow it to operate properly. I've posted about this several times and our forum techs have all pointed to the symptoms sounding like processor issues.
I was not aware that Dallee offered, not only the E unit but also sound. I'm going to have to investigate that a bit more. Regarding the Williams - I've had issues with Williams E units - primarily the heat they can generate. I've had a few issues with Reverse boards on Williams steam but no issues with diesel. I'm open to consideration on them. I want to investigate the Dallee option a bit more.
Mike: I've already offered the PS2 boards, which may have issues, to my Tech for parts or whatever he wants to do with them. If he opts that he doesn't want them, I'll probably put them on the Buy/Sell Forum
James - Selling these engines is way out of the question. Don't care if I come out ahead or not with selling and rebuying. Not a chance I'll sell these two, ever. They are very, very important to me for various reasons. I've got a few engines that fall into the same place.
Norton posted:Or just use Williams reverse boards. They are pretty bulletproof, at least the pre Bachmann ones are. Another option for sounds are Lionel Trainsounds boards. Price is comparible to Williams and the sound can be much better. Just make sure its one of the newer boards like the ones from the starter set 0-8-0 or the Conventional Classics.
Pete
I think trainsounds is not a good choice unless just the bell and whistle/horn version. The chuff and diesel ones with out battery back up are not good and the constant start up on direction change kills the experience. G
SJC, There should be no issue of DCRU interfering with sounds. I would recommend find once that have the light mod to them. This includes the 5V Reg and you can get directional lighting and marker power with that DCRU. It is what Williams used in the Brass engines. I have several if you need them.
My only comment is what I stated above to Pete. I would not use any sound board that has chuff and diesel sounds unless it is battery backup. (Old conventional RS). Without it the loss of sounds and startup sequence every time you change direction is bad.
Now, my other comment is why not upgrade to new PS-32 or used PS-2 3V. I assume these are older 5V engines. Price point would be close and you retain a command engine with all the features. G
G, what are you recommending for sounds in conventional? More features equate with higher prices. Trainsounds are better than True blast. Railsounds are better than Trainsounds.
As for Williams E units overheating, I am not sure how that can be the case. Power goes through relay contacts with near zero resistence, not wasted in semi conductors.
Pete
Thanks for the continued replies.
G - Why do say that sound without a battery back-up is bad? Personally, I could care less if the sound dies during direction changes. I'd like to know if there is some sort of proven issue without a battery back up. I know I've never heard of such a problem. Going to PS3 is a certainly an option but again, I don't want command control. I've got plenty of command engines for now and I just want simple. reliable operation.
Norton - I've got a Williams GP30 where the shell gets very warm after only a short time, right around the E unit. Same goes for a Williams J - the e unit and motor would get so hot you could cook on the shell of the engine. That is back at my dealer for diagnostics.
Some reverse units will slip into neutral at the slightest power interruption if they don't have a battery back up.
I'm not sure which one you're looking at.
Would that I had that problem! All I want to do is get my Dryfuss to go forward��.
Ah, the world of micro-miniature electronics, ain't it intreaging?
Marty Fitzhenry posted:If you have an MTH tech doing the work, why are you asking all these questions. If he is a true tech and not a wanabee he will know what to do. If he is a tech and you are asking for validation of what is going to be done, he should tell you where to park your trains.
Marty,
I'm a newbie to the hobby and I don't know you. Still, on the surface it seems like you're questioning the validity of another forum member's question. I see from your profile that you're a certified technician so you likely know more than many or most on OGR. That said, why would you state "why are you asking all these questions?" I'm not judging but it may strike some as condescending if not rude. Shouldn't anyone feel comfortable in asking an honest question on here?
James
James in VA posted:Marty Fitzhenry posted:If you have an MTH tech doing the work, why are you asking all these questions. If he is a true tech and not a wanabee he will know what to do. If he is a tech and you are asking for validation of what is going to be done, he should tell you where to park your trains.
Marty,
I'm a newbie to the hobby and I don't know you. Still, on the surface it seems like you're questioning the validity of another forum member's question. I see from your profile that you're a certified technician so you likely know more than many or most on OGR. That said, why would you state "why are you asking all these questions?" I'm not judging but it may strike some as condescending if not rude. Shouldn't anyone feel comfortable in asking an honest question on here?
James
Sure struck me as pretty rude. My intention was not only to ask about the QSI board but other options that I may not be aware of. My tech is an outstanding guy - no "wannabee" but is not one to sell me things. He offers a few suggestions and lets me decide. I like that. You couldn't ask for a better guy.
I've made up my mind as to what I'm going to do with the engine and what I'll be putting in it, both the diesel and others. All of my command control engines, except maybe one will have this done over the years as the boards/electronics fail. First electronic/board type failure, boards come out no matter how simple the repair may be. I know doing this to fully functional PS2/DCS engines this may be shocking to some pro-DCS/Command Control folks but I've had my fun with command control and "high tech" trains.
The PS32 conversion kits are out now and they function very well. The super capacitor eliminates the battery. With this, your engines will increase in value.
SJC posted:James in VA posted:All of my command control engines, except maybe one will have this done over the years as the boards/electronics fail. First electronic/board type failure, boards come out no matter how simple the repair may be. I know doing this to fully functional PS2/DCS engines this may be shocking to some pro-DCS/Command Control folks but I've had my fun with command control and "high tech" trains.
SJC, it sounds to me like you are saying that it is just a matter of time before the boards fail and that they definitely will fail over the years. What if they don't fail? When you say you've had your "fun" with command control and "high tech" trains are you being sarcastic? Do you mean to say that you're fed up with command control "high tech" trains? If yes that's okay. I am not saying any of this in an offensive manner. I'm just trying to understand and I'm curious as to what happened that brought you to this mindset.
SJC posted:Thanks for the continued replies.
G - Why do say that sound without a battery back-up is bad? Personally, I could care less if the sound dies during direction changes. I'd like to know if there is some sort of proven issue without a battery back up. I know I've never heard of such a problem. Going to PS3 is a certainly an option but again, I don't want command control. I've got plenty of command engines for now and I just want simple. reliable operation.
Norton - I've got a Williams GP30 where the shell gets very warm after only a short time, right around the E unit. Same goes for a Williams J - the e unit and motor would get so hot you could cook on the shell of the engine. That is back at my dealer for diagnostics.
I think sound is subject and Lionel has released many variations on conventional sounds. Starting with the earliest CONVENTIONAL Railsounds which was RS4.0 based, used modular boards and had battery backup. Some of the latest Trainsounds in a RTR DIesel set for example are very poor sounding and constantly do a diesel Restart sequence every time they momentarily loose power. Direction change, cross a switch, uncoupler track, dirty track, etc...
My point is: If I am going conventional (I have upgraded plenty of my own Lionel conventional engines without sounds to electronic reverse units and sounds) I use a Lionel Conventional RailSounds with Battery backup. Or chose one that only has bell and whistle. So there is no chuff or diesel ramp up and startup sounds. If there is a switch to turn that off and go to a "Signal Sounds" like set up that would work too. But many of the newer Train Sound boards do not have that.
Go to a Hobby Shop and listen to one of the Latest Lionel RTR Train Sound engines. You will understand what I am saying. Probably another reason Lionel shifted to LC.
Also, some of the newer True Blast sound pretty darn good and have enhanced whistle/horn sounds, plus bell. The board uses the same audio amp as RS 4.0. Obviously the electronic program matters too. G
Hudson J1e posted:SJC posted:James in VA posted:All of my command control engines, except maybe one will have this done over the years as the boards/electronics fail. First electronic/board type failure, boards come out no matter how simple the repair may be. I know doing this to fully functional PS2/DCS engines this may be shocking to some pro-DCS/Command Control folks but I've had my fun with command control and "high tech" trains.
SJC, it sounds to me like you are saying that it is just a matter of time before the boards fail and that they definitely will fail over the years. What if they don't fail? When you say you've had your "fun" with command control and "high tech" trains are you being sarcastic? Do you mean to say that you're fed up with command control "high tech" trains? If yes that's okay. I am not saying any of this in an offensive manner. I'm just trying to understand and I'm curious as to what happened that brought you to this mindset.
Yes, I've become a little fed up with command control trains. I've got a handful of newer PS3 engines (actually they are early generation PS3 engines) with a good chunk being older (approx. 8-10 years) PS2 3 volt engines. A few of these older engines are having board issues. Why I don't know but I've had them do strange things. I should note that these aren't really new issues but they are limiting me in operating my engines, especially in a club environment so I'm ready to make the change. The diesel I've mentioned has long had an issue where it will either go totally dark and silent with no control in DCS and keep running or totally stop and be unresponsive. I've seen similar behavior in another MTH PS2 Hudson steam engine including other issues such as it starting to chuff and puff while running shutdown sounds with power cut, etc. Every tech I've spoken with and has examined the engines determined there are issues with the processor and possibly other boards. I've opted that I'd rather be running trains than paying and waiting for repairs. I've had this plan for a while now actually. I've purchased several new PS3 engines within the past 1-2 years. I've found the quality of the newer MTH PS3 products to be lacking. I've had several issues with engines regarding electronics, and overall build quality. That is not to say all of my engines are like this but several newer ones are. I just don't think the quality is as good as it was a few years ago. I'm selling two of my "good ones" on the For Sale forum - I'd like more basic stuff and these were kind of impulse buys that I'd rather see go to someone else.
I certainly enjoy command control and the features - I have the MTH app on my iPhone for club running, among others. I have DCS (although don't use it at home), had TMCC, etc, etc. We also see frequent posts here on the forum related to board issues/failure. I'd say it is pretty common. I'm looking to get away from that. I still want basic sound but basic is what I want.
If an engine doesn't fail, I'll keep it as is, for now. In my area, we've also lost several service stations and techs. We just have 3 MTH techs within a reasonable (1.5 Hour drive). With that, I want something where I could swap out a board (couple of plugs, etc) and go. However if/when the time comes for electronic repairs, except for maybe one locomotive, all will likely go to conventional. I deal with a good bit of headaches at work, I don't want to come home in the evening and get another one trying to get my trains to work!
I'm very aware that low-tech doesn't equal problem free...I've got a Lionel RTR 4-4-2 engine. I had it rebuilt last year with a new whistle, smoke unit, etc. Overall, in 12+ years I've never had one failure with it. In addition, if for example something needs to be done to it, I can easily do it myself unlike the command control products on the market today. I recently purchased a Williams/Bachmann GP30. I had some minor teething issues out of the box but once it was broken in and wires untangled from around the flywheels, it is happily chugging along (really nice engine I should add!)
GGG posted:SJC posted:Thanks for the continued replies.
G - Why do say that sound without a battery back-up is bad? Personally, I could care less if the sound dies during direction changes. I'd like to know if there is some sort of proven issue without a battery back up. I know I've never heard of such a problem. Going to PS3 is a certainly an option but again, I don't want command control. I've got plenty of command engines for now and I just want simple. reliable operation.
Norton - I've got a Williams GP30 where the shell gets very warm after only a short time, right around the E unit. Same goes for a Williams J - the e unit and motor would get so hot you could cook on the shell of the engine. That is back at my dealer for diagnostics.
I think sound is subject and Lionel has released many variations on conventional sounds. Starting with the earliest CONVENTIONAL Railsounds which was RS4.0 based, used modular boards and had battery backup. Some of the latest Trainsounds in a RTR DIesel set for example are very poor sounding and constantly do a diesel Restart sequence every time they momentarily loose power. Direction change, cross a switch, uncoupler track, dirty track, etc...
My point is: If I am going conventional (I have upgraded plenty of my own Lionel conventional engines without sounds to electronic reverse units and sounds) I use a Lionel Conventional RailSounds with Battery backup. Or chose one that only has bell and whistle. So there is no chuff or diesel ramp up and startup sounds. If there is a switch to turn that off and go to a "Signal Sounds" like set up that would work too. But many of the newer Train Sound boards do not have that.
Go to a Hobby Shop and listen to one of the Latest Lionel RTR Train Sound engines. You will understand what I am saying. Probably another reason Lionel shifted to LC.
Also, some of the newer True Blast sound pretty darn good and have enhanced whistle/horn sounds, plus bell. The board uses the same audio amp as RS 4.0. Obviously the electronic program matters too. G
Good to know, thanks.
I have heard several of the new LC RTR sets - they sound very, very nice even for a beginner product.
I recently purchased a Williams/Bachmann GP30 with the new "True Blast Plus" sound system - very impressive. Sounds much, much better than my MTH engines with the same diesel prime mover, horn, bell sounds. I've opted to use this sound board on my diesel. I hope Bachmann makes the TB+ steam board available in the future.
I showed the GP30 to a friend - the GP30 had directional, LED lighting, LED markers, sound with prime mover, horn, bell, extra safety chain details, safety tread on steps and walks, add on handrails, etc, etc. Once he saw it and heard it, he would not believe it was a Williams engine. Only until I showed the Bachmann/Williams stamp in the bottom did he believe it.
I'm also quite happy with a Bell and Whistle although if I can get a chuff or diesel roar I'll take that as well.
