MTH WIRELESS DRAWBAR

Yes, it's an electrical ground. It's mostly important when you have a short wheelbase loco and thus additional connection to the tender assists with bridging switches. Also, important in 2 rail/ 3 rail switchable locos for similar reasons.

Often we get so focused on 3rd rail pickup- outer rail and wheels matter too.

BTW- Lionel does something similar on 0-8-0 Lionchief engines and tenders with the drawbar having an frame ground contact and tender truck only has wheel/axle pickup not 3rd rail.

FYI, be carful with these drawbars as they are easily broken and replacements are hard to find especially the shorter ones.

That's good to know but a floating ground is less than optimal. What I mean is it's not soldered to anything but relies on friction contact. Is the coil spring at the cab end another form of ground and why are some springs above the drawbar and others underneath? It appears to me the spring location has to do with drawbar clearing the swing of the rear truck under the cab.

Quite candidly, the spring is a cheap kludge.  If the ground was really deemed that important, it should have come through the connector.

Oh, wait!  It does come through the connector.  I never really did understand what they were trying to accomplish with that spring.   Of course, the whole 2-rail/3-rail kludge it one of the most troublesome parts of the MTH steam locomotives.

John on most premier 2R-3R ground does not come through.  The ground is repurposed for right side wheels for 2R operation.  So the only ground is the tender set up and that spring to provide engine ground.  Float yes, but so is wheels, axle to truck block.  Though certainly more reliable.

For those that only run 3R adding a jumper to the right side wheel pickup to engine chassis provides a solid wire ground that can be easily undone if you want to sell it or go to 2R operations.

It really helps to ground both sides of the outer rails too.  G

George, the spring is still a cheap and unreliable kludge.

The spring is a pain in the *** when hooking up engines. It's a poor solution. There's no telling what engines it's on. It's on Atlantics to Northerns. Why some have it and others don't is a mystery. I question the need for it when running 3 rail. I guess with electronics any momentary interruption in an electrical circuit is an issue.  Thanks for all you guys helping answer this question.

FWIW, one of my first fixes when I have issues with running due to track connections is to lose that idiotic 3-rail/2-rail switch and hard wire it.  Anyone that would be converting between 3-rail and 2-rail would have to have the shell off anyway, so why not have a connector to switch between them?  That would have been a reliable connection instead of using a 5 cent switch!

John,

I like the word “kludge”. Very descriptive.

Jerry

@Buicillac posted:

The spring is a pain in the *** when hooking up engines. It's a poor solution. There's no telling what engines it's on. It's on Atlantics to Northerns. Why some have it and others don't is a mystery. I question the need for it when running 3 rail. I guess with electronics any momentary interruption in an electrical circuit is an issue.  Thanks for all you guys helping answer this question.

I explained it.  2Rr-3R mostly.  If an engine is 3R only you have wire ground through tether.  I am sure there are some exceptions.  Don't like it, then remove it.  Not hard.  G

The PS3 drawbar was a whiff by MTH because you have electrical connections transferring a load. Oddly enough the PS2 python cable never bothered me. It's like my brain erases it and focuses on the other cool features that the engine has while it's running. By comparison, the original PS3 drawbars with the shiny surface, plastic clips and that ridiculous wire spring were an eyesore that was hard to ignore. All of mine have a piece of black shrink wrap that I formed around a small piece of wood with the same cross section as the draw bar. Then I cut it axially on one side, remove it and wrap it around the drawbar. Visually much better.

Can't please everyone all the time.  Sometimes it seems you can't please people ever.  How many post how folks wanted to get rid of the tether.  G

GGG, I'm one of the people who don't like the wireless drawbar.  Maybe a dumb question, but if you "remove it," how do you physically connect the loco and tender?   I have PS2 and PS3 examples of the same loco, and it looks like MTH changed the mold in the area under the cab.  So simple subsitution of prior-generation parts won't work.  Thanks.

I wonder if it would be possible to build a simple 6-pin wire harness with the proper female connectors to do exactly what the wireless drawbar does with a little less elegance. Then leave the PCB drawbar in for drawbar functions only.

Below is a picture of a Railking 2-8-0 PS3 engine that needed a new drive block due to the previous one being treated like a Push Toy and grinding the gearbox box almost smooth.  I transplanted all of the electronics into an old Loco-Sound parts engine and had to re-use the old 10-pin tether as the used block didn't have the proper cutouts to accommodate the wireless drawbar, but the old wireless drawbar does tow the consist.

This is what confuses me about folks who don't like it because of esthetics.  I get it if you do not like it because of how you have to connect it.

You can always go drawbar, since you have a bolt into engine spot.  Then use a screw/nut combo on the tender side to make a pin.

As far as adding tether, you won't have a pcb spot on the engine, so you would have to use a female connector like the tender harness of the 3V that used a detachable exterior tether.  Wire it up, since only 6 wires needed.  That will be horrible looking esthetics.

The draw bar doesn't put the electrical contact under stress of pulling.  The connection points handle that.  The issue with swivel stress on the wire is legitimate, but if you ensure you have strain relief it is fine.

Putting engine on side and connecting tether until it snaps in place is best method in my opinion.

If you don't like this drawbar I guess you can't stand the Lionel IR version with the big block connections either.  G

@GGG posted:

If you don't like this drawbar I guess you can't stand the Lionel IR version with the big block connections either.  G

Well, the Lionel IR at least is easy to connect, some of the MTH drawbars are a Royal PITA to get on.  I also lay the engine/tender on the side for the really troublesome ones, but that requires something under them to avoid damaging the paint.

Besides, I don't find the IR drawbar all that objectionable.

I've not had an issue with the MTH wireless drawbar, beyond it disconnecting at speed once in awhile. That's easily solved with one of those little collars (which should really come with each locomotive) MTH sells.

However the design isn't idiot proof like a good design should be, hence why some people will have issues and others won't.

@Scott J posted:

The PS3 drawbar was a whiff by MTH because you have electrical connections transferring a load. Oddly enough the PS2 python cable never bothered me. It's like my brain erases it and focuses on the other cool features that the engine has while it's running. By comparison, the original PS3 drawbars with the shiny surface, plastic clips and that ridiculous wire spring were an eyesore that was hard to ignore. All of mine have a piece of black shrink wrap that I formed around a small piece of wood with the same cross section as the draw bar. Then I cut it axially on one side, remove it and wrap it around the drawbar. Visually much better.

I've done the same thing Scott . Works very well.

For the ps3 wireless drawbar I also use shrink tubing to secure the engine side conection and I use one of MTH's square Delrin block to secure the tender side of the drawbar.   The tender and engine can be seperated by disconnecting the tender side.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, the Lionel IR at least is easy to connect, some of the MTH drawbars are a Royal PITA to get on.  I also lay the engine/tender on the side for the really troublesome ones, but that requires something under them to avoid damaging the paint.

Besides, I don't find the IR drawbar all that objectionable.

That ones not bad, but some are much large block and centered face to face which really looks bad in my opinion. G

@GGG posted:

That ones not bad, but some are much large block and centered face to face which really looks bad in my opinion. G

The large block was the TMCC drawbar, I agree that one didn't look as good as the Legacy models.  I guess Lionel agreed as they changed to a much smaller sensor block for the Legacy models.

@GGG posted:

Can't please everyone all the time.  Sometimes it seems you can't please people ever.  How many post how folks wanted to get rid of the tether.  G

G, you are 100% correct. Speaking for myself, the last thing I should be complaining about is the MTH WDB. I wouldn't be in the hobby if it weren't for MTH and DCS and I'm extremely grateful that they are still delivering products. The MTH Imperial line delivers superior visual and feature quality and runs on my O36 curve Atlas layout. My MTH engines (steam and diesel) outnumber my Lionel engines by about 5 to 1 for good reason. In fact I'll probably sell most of my Lionel Legacy diesels so I can buy more MTH! Sorry, but I do prefer Lionel's rolling stock.