My 1940’s Military War Train

Pneumatic tired loads, some examples I did 

courtesy: NMRA, FRA library and my own collection 

Courtesy: Railroad Prototype Encyclopedia 

Good photos help, and the internet is pretty good sometimes. 

flat cars are rather rare in o scale, at least decent scale versions. I have a fair amount of brass flat cars most of them in use already. I was not real picky and picked up several cars that are nearly as old as the era I’m modeling. In this case this old UP 53’ car was perfect for some Jeeps and a GMC troop carrier. I followed closely the photos and the standards guides to come up with my tie downs. I cabled, chained up some of the cars and some I have to finish  

Tamyia 1/48 is without doubt the best in my opinion  

1/48 scale Jeeps are small, I’m used to seeing 1/43 and I think some of the so called 1/43 Jeeps are more like 1/40.. these Bandai kits are superb 

I thought about redoing the deck on this car, maybe some other time. I want to enjoy the car at the train show. Getter done! 

Mr Color from Gunze military colors are just fantastic, the Tamyia color is a little too glossy. Humbrel is excellent too especially on tarps  

authentic that’s Tamyia 

my temporary work space my kids table while I babysit. I have 2 kids both under 5. Not a lot of alone time in the workshop. It’s work from a box and play dad. 

Isn’t o scale fabulous! 

Hobby Boss, these are Nice models, bought some of these at Hobby Lobby, with the venerable 40% off coupon it’s a deal and 1/48! 

test fitting customized Solido 1/50 die cast troop carriers

etched parts everywhere, fun! 

cabled and chocked ready to roll 

prototype reference 

FT’s pressed into War Time service hustle troops and officers with artillery on the High Plains

Some of the kits I used 

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Pneumatic tired loads, some examples I did 

 

courtesy: NMRA, FRA library and my own collection 

 

Courtesy: Railroad Prototype Encyclopedia 

Good photos help, and the internet is pretty good sometimes.

This image brought back some research in the past.  The research found that Jeeps were shipped in crates.  The mounted tire/rims were removed stowed on seats.  The top was completely folded down, neat stackable crates.

Thought about trying to replicate this. Would make a great load.

Just did a search and found several images.

Ron

Variety it would seem was the norm. Likely based on availability and resources etc etc etc. 

I am planning on this style of Jeep load, I just need 14 1/48 Jeeps to stack and strap and tie town. 

This project can be a Pandora’s box, limitless in terms of research. The amount of variables boggles the mind. I drew the line at a certain budget and availability of 1/48 equipment and time needed to finish the models. I’ve been at this one for 3 years now. Don’t ask how rare decent flat cars are in 1/48. With the right resources a solid 45 car train of Sherman tanks would have been real nice, if I could find the locomotive that could pull it and or run it. Right now 40 cars is my absolute practical limit and I wanted some variety.

But seriously, is there a right or wrong way to model this train? Sure you can get goofy with stuff like a 1990’s M1 on a 1940’s flat car...pulled by WWII era steam. I didn’t want that. 

I did a WWII war train in N scale pretty accurately as far as size and equipment, Sherman tanks, 40 of them.. the models are cast resin with little or no detail compared to my 1/48 miniatures. Far more achievable, the advantages of smaller scales  

 I called this post “MY 1940’s military war train”. I can’t possibly do it all 100% correct. I need a bigger wallet for one.  It would be neat if someone has and maybe it’s been done like the circus trains; I wish they would share it. 

That’s awesome.  You are one heck of a modeler and artist.  Keep going!

Hey William, thanks  ...and the rest for the nice comments glad you enjoy it

Eric, for jeeps and other light trucks the cheapest I have found is on E bay.  The Menards flat car with Jeeps has two jeeps and runs from $22.00 to $30.00.  The jeeps are pretty decent and you can sell the flat car on E bay to re coop some of your money.  The jeeps appear to be scale and are reasonably detailed.  I have enclosed a picture for your reference.  This makes the jeeps cost $11.00 to $15.00 each plus tax and shipping

For flat cars the Lionel is the best 50 foot car.  It takes some time to two rail the car and fill in the ends gaps included for the 3 rail coupler clearance.  For 40 foot cars the red caboose is the best unless you want a straight side 40 foot car in which case the Berkshire valley kit is the best but yo will have to build the kit.  I have built some 50 foot straight side cars from Berkshire Valley Kits but I have to mill of the fish belly sides.  The Berkshire Valley Kits are getting hard to get.  For both cars I ling to replace the decks with real 2 X 6 boards that have been distressed and weathered.

Thank you Charles for the great advice 

goofing around with some dramatic light tonight and a Key Cab Forward and some other toys 

Awesome military WWII train modeling, I am working on mine, not ready for prime time yet. Mark

Erik,

Your modeling and photography skills always amaze me! Great work!

Erik,

your work is superb. I love looking at the things you construct.

Erik thanks for sharing with all of us. We admire and appreciate your marvelous work.

hi Erik, love it with all off those tanks and other militairy stuf

maybe this is interesting? Atlantis is making some old 1/48 kits again

https://www.atlantis-models.co...ntistoyandhobby.aspx

here you can find more 1/48 militairy stuf

 https://www.wespemodels.com/mi...ry_models_scale_1_48

Cor

Erik C Lindgren posted:

 Don’t ask how rare decent flat cars are in 1/48.

Erik as if it's not hard enough to tell model from real in your photos now you go and throw photos of real into the mix. Thank goodness for the progress shots and the occasional auto in the background.  All kidding aside that's some of your typical great modelling. 

moonlicht posted:

hi Erik, love it with all off those tanks and other militairy stuf

maybe this is interesting? Atlantis is making some old 1/48 kits again

https://www.atlantis-models.co...ntistoyandhobby.aspx

here you can find more 1/48 militairy stuf

 https://www.wespemodels.com/mi...ry_models_scale_1_48

 

Cor

fantastic Moonlicht! Thanks 

Thanks guys for the VERY kind words. 

One of my favorite loads are the Long Tom guns. I used several different sources including Aurora 1/48 and white metal ASM 1/45 both from the UK. 

some different ways I’ve found how they loaded 

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Some of the kits I used 

Erik, beautiful pictures and modeling.  I just have one thing to point out.  The above model is not correct for WWII as the HVSS suspension pictured did not get added until mid 1944 at the earliest.  It was never used during the war.

The VVSS suspension was the one on all Sherman tanks and their variants during the war.

TexasSP posted:

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Some of the kits I used 

Erik, beautiful pictures and modeling.  I just have one thing to point out.  The above model is not correct for WWII as the HVSS suspension pictured did not get added until mid 1944 at the earliest.  It was never used during the war.

The VVSS suspension was the one on all Sherman tanks and their variants during the war.

Texas, this linked site has pictures of the HVSS equipped Sherman’s advancing through German towns towards the end of WW2. There weren’t many HVSS equipped Sherman tanks at the time in combat, but according to this site, which is an excellent resource on Sherman tank history, they definitely were used during the war.  See more here - http://the.shadock.free.fr/she..._105mm/m4_105mm.html

 Here is one of the pictures depicting an M4A3(105)HVSS (very close to the model Eric used, just a different gun) advancing through the town of Altenhundem, Germany "as the noose tightens on trapped Nazis in the Ruhr Pocket” in WW2. The men and tanks are identified as with the 99th Infantry Division, and we would observe that the 786th Tank Battalion was attached to the 99th at that time. -  http://the.shadock.free.fr/she...105mm/m4_105mm23.jpg

Here is a picture of a train of flatbeds in France full of them with HVSS suspensions, just like Eric included in his project - 

Here is a picture of the exact model Eric used (E8 variant) with the same gun, deployed in the battle of Bastogne - http://the.shadock.free.fr/she...a376w/m4a376w_60.jpg

More  information on this Sherman m4a3E8 HVSS variant  here (Note towards the bottom of the link it mentions that over 1000 Of this variant, the exact model Eric used, were in the European theatre as of VE Day)  - http://the.shadock.free.fr/she...4a376w/m4a3_76w.html

Never say, never! 

——————-

Eric, love your work and keep sharing pics with us. It’s definite inspiring me to complete a few more of my WW2 flatbed  projects.

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Thanks guys for the VERY kind words. 

Not only do you model perfectly you have the best attitude... not like some of grumpy old men! 

Stuff looks AWESOME!  Inspiring me to start building kits again with the onset of the dark months of winter.

Superb modeling, Erik! Really first rate!

That info on the tank devolpment was awsome.

Thanks

Mikey

To be clear, I wouldn't take that page as gospel.  HVSS Sherman's did arrive in Europe, but based on books I read on this and a tank historian I know they did not participate in battle.  There is a lot of conflicting and inaccurate info on this across the internet, so forgive my skepticism.

I was commenting mainly as Erik's statement was in representing the years around 1941 etc.  For his time period, they are not accurate historically.

The HVSS Sherman's were used all over Europe by multiple allied countries post war, in Israel, and went to Korea.

None of this was to take away from Erik's fine modeling and photographs which are all first rate.

TexasSP posted:

To be clear, I wouldn't take that page as gospel.  HVSS Sherman's did arrive in Europe, but based on books I read on this and a tank historian I know they did not participate in battle.  There is a lot of conflicting and inaccurate info on this across the internet, so forgive my skepticism.

I was commenting mainly as Erik's statement was in representing the years around 1941 etc.  For his time period, they are not accurate historically.

The HVSS Sherman's were used all over Europe by multiple allied countries post war, in Israel, and went to Korea.

None of this was to take away from Erik's fine modeling and photographs which are all first rate.

Texas, I don’t want to hijack or distract from Eric’s awesome thread. What you’ve written and my response speaks for itself.  Others can read and  judge accordingly. However, since you’ve cast a negative aspersion on one of the top websites for Sherman tank history, I think I need to point a few things out.  The site I referenced was created by three noted historians specializing in this subject (http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html).  For example Pierre-Olivier Buan is considered and referred to as a “world renowned Sherman tank expert” by a number of publications and is acknowledged by Michael Green in his seminal work, “American Tanks & AFVs of World War II.” One of the other publishers of the site is Baltimore historian Joe DeMarco, famous for his expertise on this subject as well.  The website includes photos of actual declassified US military documents, including requisition reports, after action reports and other in theater summaries,  as well as actual photos to support all of its statements and assertions (some of which I’ve linked above). It is very well supported and researched, as would be expected for the historians that created it.  Anyone wishing to learn more about the Sherman tank, it’s development, it’s variations, and it’s use would be well served relying on it, Texas’ skepticism notwithstanding. 

According to this book which references Joe DeMarco as a source. HVSS Sherman's did not arrive prior to April 1945 and there is no pictorial evidence of them fighting prior to the end of the war.  Searches find much that corroborates this same thing. 

https://books.google.com/books...0DeMarco&f=false

TexasSP posted:

According to this book which references Joe DeMarco as a source. HVSS Sherman's did not arrive prior to April 1945 and there is no pictorial evidence of them fighting prior to the end of the war.  Searches find much that corroborates this same thing. 

https://books.google.com/books...0DeMarco&f=false

You’re moving the goalposts, Texas and I think you may be confusing the term “fighting” with being “used during the war”.  Even the link you posted doesn’t support your statement that they didn’t arrive prior to “April1945.”  Read  it again starting at the paragraph “second generation suspension improvements”.  There are multiple variants with HVSS suspension, the earliest arriving in 1944.  According to your own link, the m4a3 76s, which are the one eric modeled, arrived in December 1944 (see top of page 90).  You have the pictures from Buan and Demarcos website that I linked as well,  which clearly shows them being used in the European theater during WW2 prior to VE Day on May 8, 1945.  I initially responded to your statement that  the Sherman’s with the HVSS suspension were “never used during the war”.  That is false. I Don’t believe there are no after action reports of them engaged in any tank to tank combat, but as you can easily see documented on Buan and Demarco’s website, with photos, they were used in the manner I described during the time frames referenced in the links I posted prior to May 8, 1945.  You clarified your “never used” during the war statement after I commented to mean, words to the effect of, never used “around 1941”, which is correct and no one has ever claimed otherwise. Again, I don’t want to hijack Eric’s thread and people can read for themselves what we’ve written and posted.  

Erik. My apologies for this distraction. I asked for these posts to be removed. You do fantastic work. Thanks for sharing!

There was a HVSS Sherman in the battle of Cologne Cathedral on March 7 1945,there is video of the battle on YouTube.

Mikey

Erik....your modeling is the best of the best!!  I think you should submit a build article for the magazine.  Remember...we need 2-rail scale articles!!!

Erik C Lindgren posted:

One of my favorite loads are the Long Tom guns. I used several different sources including Aurora 1/48 and white metal ASM 1/45 both from the UK. 

Great modeling and photography Erik! (Love the peak at Porsche's "Peoples Car" test prototypes in the background:-)

Great modeling and thanks for sharing it with us.

I also like the discussions about the military equipment. It's relevant. 

Since the mods don't want to remove the original posts and because of the post above, I will offer this one last thing and I will bow out.  I have family members who are PhD historians and through this I interact with other PhD historians.  These with a variety of specialties including WWII history.  As such and by their influence my standard is based off of their standards.  Any historian will tell you that it is correct to question them, their sources, and ask for additional sources, they had to do this to argue whatever their doctoral thesis were.  This seems to be upsetting to strap hanger.

Final note, the YT video of the battle of cologne shows both a Pershing and Sherman.  Only one quick view is available of the Sherman and it appears to have VVSS suspension, but it's hard to tell for sure.  However, the date of that battle conflicts with dates HVSS equipped Sherman are shown to have first arrived in Europe.

Anyway, everyone is free to do their own research and form their own opinions/beliefs on the matter.  None of this can take away from Erik's superb modeling and photography skills.

Texas, that’s hilarious! You’re too funny! Glad to see you were just “questioning sources” not posting wrong info.  Don’t worry. I’m not upset and no hard feelings.

However, as for that youtube video of the battle of Cologne referenced by Mikey, dated March 7, 1945, your own link reflects that the HVSS equipped M4A3 Sherman variant (otherwise known as the “easy 8” , and the HVSS model Eric used) was received into Northern Europe in December 1944, well before the battle (the M4A1 HVSS equipped Sherman variant arrived in April 1945). As such, the date of the battle of Cologne does not conflict with the date HVSS equipped Sherman’s were shown to have arrived in Europe like you wrote. Yeah, you went and stepped in it again. So it’s quite feasible that Mikey is right. I just can’t tell from looking at the video with my poor computer screen resolution if that is an HVSS equipped Sherman. If you go to page 90 of the link that you posted and read the first sentence at the very top of the page all the  way down to the end of the paragraph, you’ll see confirmation of what I have written.  Here is the link you provided for easy reference, so you should have no problem “questioning” this source as your numerous PhD friends taught you, just pay careful attention to the model variant numbers and what it says about when they were delivered to Europe -  https://books.google.com/books...0DeMarco&f=false

Hey, maybe we can get one of your PhD historian friends/relatives to help you out with this? Too funny!