My dream/nightmare layout... July Update 7/31/19 Big Boy month!

That layout is gonna be confusing for me to figure out, it is getting there keep it up.

I never remember the layout of the layout. I must really tick Elliot off because he tells me every time and every time I only half pay attention. Its not that I dont care its that I cant help it. My brain doesnt function on that level of logistical detail

I leave a trail of breadcrumbs to find my way out. Doesn't always work, they seem to disappear.

Elliot likes bread

How can it be that difficult..it only represents the major elements of half of Michigan.

EHEM, Minnesota

Looks like some of it is sticking anyway.

As long as Elliot has it figured out and doesn't forget anything, I think we should be ok.

Thanks for your support guys!! Sorry it took me so long to respond today, was busy with other stuff and kind of wiped out from the last two days working on the layout.

The logistics of the layout aren't really as difficult as you might imagine. Matt and Jon like to tease, because they have "lived" it. It is really very linear. If I could have found a room 600' long and 7' wide, I could have built the same layout.

I suppose it is a little confusing for those of you who haven't visited, just seeing the random photos of where the work is taking place. It seems disjointed. This video might help a little as it follows the mainline over its length. I see that it is almost a year old. Spence has been urging me to shoot a new one. I think he's right!

As it is, I have taken all that length and wrapped it around the north and south walls and three peninsulas. At one point the mainline splits into three different routes, just like in the real world. Then they all come back together and continue on as double track.

As for being organized, that is more of a recent development. Now that construction has reached all areas of the layout, it has become a necessity. I've created a punch list with all the projects, and divided the layout into sections. This allows me to keep track of everything, and bring all construction along to the same levels.

That video shows just how massive that layout is. If you put me in the middle of it I'm not sure if I could find my way out.

This is totally amazing, i can't believe the amount of work and man hours i see in your video and pictures. I commend you, tip my hat to you, and applaud you

                            AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,

Alex

Elliot,

The video really puts the magnitude of your layout in the proper perspective so it can be appreciated. Not trying to imitate my namesake, above, but it is the appropriate word to describe your project: Simply . . .

A M A Z I N G !!

Thank you so much for posting the video!

Alex

Alexander Müller

That video is truly mind boggling!  You're going to wear out a lot of locomotives just trying to complete a trip around that monster!

I have to go with the 'Amazing' and 'Mind Boggling' descriptions already used above. That definitely is a 'Dream Layout'. I thought you had to have at least a 10,000+ sq. ft. basement when I first saw it. I remember seeing some pictures of your basement before you started the layout and it looked large, but not near as large as I had imagined from the layout. That was an amazing discovery too. The peninsulas must be what makes it SO much larger looking. Although you have probably written about it many times and shown pictures too, I didn't really realize until watching your video walking tour a couple of times that you had a second helix. For some reason I was still thinking there was only one? I will use getting old as an excuse for that one.

Anyway, I appreciated the walking tour and if you do find time to update it that would be even better. I know all the boxes are gone and a lot has been added since the one above was made. I bet an updated one will really show some major differences when the two are compared. I also liked the video you did from the train that ran the layout. Another one of those would be neat too, but the walking one would be the easiest way to tell the most about the entire layout. I like the train tours, but it's hard to tell where you are sometimes with those.

The floors dont squeak on my dream layout

That may have been his shoes...

It was his shoes, walking across the floor making it squeak

Once again, sorry it's taken so long to get back to the forum. I volunteered to be the layout tour coordinator for the local NMRA division, and spent most of my afternoon and evening on the phone dealing with that.

It is like herding cats, trying to find three layouts in the same general area on the same day. I thought I had it, then I lost it, now I have hope I can get it back with a new combination.

Thanks to both Alex M's and John. I hope you guys didn't miss the actual August update back on page 14.

I will do my best to get a new video here in September and take you on a real tour with audio. I just need to get things cleaned up again before I can shoot it. I re-watched that old video before I posted it, and I can't believe how different it is today.

rtr12 - The room is 1900 square feet, but the layout is 2200 square feet because of all the levels. If spread out here is more than enough to cover the aisles.

This is a crude drawing of the room showing the aisle space in white and the layout in blue.

 Do you mean a photo like this one? It was taken from the position marked A above.

Matt and Jon, I'll deal with you clowns later.

UHOH Jon, we're in trouble now. Its all fun and games til Elliot gets his feelings hurt

Yes, exactly and the before and after pictures are great too. What a transformation. The blue & white drawing really shows the plan well, very good overall picture of how it is laid out. I was thinking it was about like that, but that diagram really puts it all together. It really is a LOT bigger looking with all the peninsulas. That was a maximum use of all the space you had available. And the second level added even more to it. Thanks for the clarification.

Elliot, the scope of your mega lay-out is matched by your diligent and informative posts of the progress you are making on it.  The 38 "likes" and 43,000+ views are a testament of the many, many forum members who regularly enjoy your posts and video.  THANK YOU!!!  And to Matt and Jon, also--what an incredible support group you have on this extraordinary undertaking

That diagram really helped me also in understanding what's going on. Thanks Elliot.

Thank you Carl.

rtr12 and Spence, one slight discrepancy with that diagram is there is no aisle or access space along the top and two side walls. The layout is built on them. The bottom wall is where the bookshelves are. They're 12" deep and the tracks run on top. There is a full aisle there with Hiawatha and the Ford Plant on the other side.

Sorry I didn't share that sooner. It does make it a little easier to understand.

It kind of reminds me of my time back at Mall of America. People were always saying how they were lost there. I would always say, "It's just a big square doughnut with 3 1/2 floors." Unfortunately, that doughnut took a bite out of me.

Elliot

Been following along and this is just massive!!!! Maybe its somewhere in the thread but Just how big is the room?  I hope the OGR staff is watching because this Warrants some serious coverage.

Also

Steve

Welcome aboard Steve!

The room is 1900 square feet. The main section is about 38' x 46', then there is the piece where the workbench is, that's 11' x 15'. With all 3 levels the layout is something like 2200 square feet. That's 300 more than the actual floor.

There's something like 3000' of GarGraves track (20 cases) and just over 300 switches. There are 124 Tortoises on the mainline switches, 5 DZ1000's in the hump yard ladder, and the rest are manual.

As for the OGR staff, Alan Arnold has been around a couple times, so they are aware, but Rich and Alan Miller have been totally quiet. I'm sure they require a more finished looking product to consider for publication.

September was a pretty quiet month on the railroad. Matt and Jon came over once. Joe was busy moving and Patrick was busy at work. Joe is on for next Wednesday, Patrick less certain.

Working alone things move a lot slower, but there are some jobs I just like to do myself. I picked up where I left off last month on the north turnout relay panel.

I reworked the relay power supply / C/MRI first node panel, removing some unnecessary components.

I got the feeders from the hump section down through the upper deck plywood, not quite as easy as it would seem.

These next six photos are a simple progression of the south turnout relay panel, from 9/5 through 9/23.

These next two were taken the same day before and after.

Completed...

Hung and populated.

The reworked panel is hung.

Matt and Jon were over on the same Sunday afternoon. Matt continued working on manual throws.

Jon hung 40 more feet of fascia.

The upper deck fascia is now about 80% complete.

I filled and sanded the new section.

Then I painted the new part and repainted a bunch of the older parts where Matt had finished working.

I did a bunch of roadbed profile carving. I'm nearly done with aisle one...

And have a good start on aisle 2.

This is the north panel again. I got tired of sitting on the floor, so I brought it over to the table. Much more comfortable.

I haven't really worked on the layout the last few days. Been busy organizing the local NMRA division fall layout tour. That was a real challenge. I turned in the information for publication earlier this evening. I'm going to sleep well tonight. Back to work on the layout tomorrow.

In spite of a slow start, October was a pretty good month on the Twin Cities Central. I had a number of visitors, including Chugman's son Jim. In addition to visiting my layout, we went over to the Twin Cities Model Railroad Museum. It was probably my last visit before they close at the end of February.


Joe came over twice and continued working on wiring.This was the month that it all paid off.

With the relay panel installed, it was time to test the relays themselves.
 

This is the relay power supply. I reworked the 110V so I had a switched circuit that I could plug this into. Once that was done I fired it up and started poking at it with my meter. Instead of having +24VDC, I had -24VDC. Seems that this panel was originally connected to the opposite phase of electricity. Simple solution, swap the blue and green wires on the rectifier inputs.

With that resolved, it was finally time to test the relays. One just kept popping the fuse. Upon closer inspection, I discovered that the diode was backward. Flipped it around and everything was perfect.

I started installing the fascia on the lower deck.

There's 32' up to this point.

I had to remount the Dayton's Bluff control panel so it could be removed later without interfering with the fascia.

Eventually I got the fascia all the way around to the far end of Pig's Eye.

This shot shows Joe's handywork. All the track wires are connected and neatly tied up.

I added backdrop support brackets. The track along the wall will be hidden behind it.

This bundle of wires may not look like much, but it represents three days of work, and 13 power districts. They have traveled from the far side of the room, and are headed for the power supplies down below.

This still needs to be tidied up a bit, but all the connections are made, and the track is live.

And on that happy note, I had Joe take the throttle for the big payoff. It was time to run a train around the entire upper deck!

There are still some TMCC signal issues to deal with, but all things considered, not bad. When all of the wiring is done, I'll begin the debugging process.

Finally, there's this. It is called ATCS monitor, and it allows you to see where the the real trains are. There is coverage over much of North America. What you are seeing here is the entire Twin Cities area under BNSF control, essentially my entire layout. Eventually, I'll create my own exact schematic using JMRI, but it should be fairly similar.

November should bring more wiring and fascia, and hopefully a lot more.

Mind boggling and awesome! Very enjoyable to read an see updates.

It is really nice to see this coming together. Congratulations on the progress made. know that you are pleased with the lack of major problems on the test run.

Bill

YEOW

Eliot

Elliot,

Congrats on the first run!  What you have created is absolutely fantastic.  The ATCS monitor is way cool.  

Elliot,

    Great stuff simply fantastic layout! Congrats on all your fine work.

PCRR/Dave

Awesome, Elliot!  Always a treat to see your progress.

Art

Elliot, I've really enjoyed following the updates on your construction saga.  On the video, I noticed some "hands above" sections.  Is this because you have not yet installed your ground plane wires or are there other TMCC signal issues?

Fantastic as always. Two questions: I noticed the antenna was not fully extended on the Cab-1. Would this have made any difference in signal issues?

Second: do you have any experience with a Cab 1-L on the layout? I have noticed on my basement layout, admittedly one nano-percent in size compared to yours,  that the Cab 1-L seems a more reliable controller than my cab 1's.

Fantastic job Eliot!  You folks have sure done a beautiful job wiring!  Neatness counts in troubleshooting.

Are you home???Im on my way over right now.Nick

Nick, It would be worth a trip from the Cleveland area to the Twin Cities to see Elliot's layout!  Come to think of it, It would be worth it from Western Pennsylvania as well. I'll stop by and pick you up.

Wow!  Amazing job Elliot. At one point you said you have the training behind the backdrop. Is there access to that track? Murphy always causes a problem where you can't reach it.  Great progress. 

Thank you all for the wonderful support you have given me on this project railroad. We are fast approaching the three year anniversary of this topic, and frankly, I don't think I could have done it without you. I'll keep working on this thing, and you keep enjoying the "ride".

Peter - I have a couple of theories as to what is causing that one section to have bad TMCC signal. The room is laced with potential earth ground sources which may be damping the track signal. In this particular case, I'll be looking at the track lighting which runs almost directly above the affected area, as the culprit. By code, the lighting track must be grounded for safety. The other possibility is is the duct work hidden up inside the soffit. I was thinking of grounding it as a test. Right now I'm leaning toward the lighting, since the train ran perfectly directly under the duct work.  One other thing to note is that this was just one engine in the test. Some engines run perfectly while others are a nightmare over the same section of track. I have been contending with these issues since I first put power to the layout some 12 years ago. I will get to the bottom of this. It is definitely on my to do list for 2016.

Bill - Typically I don't bother to extend the antenna on my cab-1's. The communication between the remote and the base just isn't the issue that the track signal is, that in spite of the size of the room. Keep in mind, the base is located near the dead center of the space. Sorry, no cab-1L's, thus no info.

Kerrigan - Please don't get the impression that I'm pouring money into labor on this layout. Joe, who is second only to myself in the amount of wiring done, has been offered money, but chooses not to take any. He enjoys the challenge and learning new skills for about 5 hours a week. The change of pace from his daily routine and a good dinner seems to be enough to keep him coming back. As long as we are on the cost subject, I might as well talk briefly about the materials. The bulk of them were purchased more than 20 years ago for the layout at Mall of America. Almost half of the track, a third of the switches and 98% of the electrical supplies and wire, came from that project. The lumber has been acquired over an even longer period, more than 40 years. The spending is probably 90% done, just gotta mop up.

Mark - You're so right neatness does count, especially when wiring something this large. A few months ago I made up a spreadsheet list of the power districts on the layout. That list was balanced out in such a way as to minimize the number of transitions between supplies (of which there are 6). I printed the list, and took it under the layout when added the 13 new districts. In the process, I shuffled the existing wires around to match the list. Everything fell into place perfectly. Now I just need to attach the list to the panel for documentation, and I should never have to worry about it again.

Pat - I try very hard not to build track I can't access. I never said it would be easy to get to some of it though. In this particular case, the plan has always been to have a 7" wide strip over the entire length, which was removable. I'm still pondering the best method of securing it, while making it less than a major PITA to access. Use velcro maybe or magnets. Honestly, I don't expect much to go wrong back there, with just a single long straight track. I also plan to have video cameras on each end to keep an eye on it.