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Not only can't I imagine building anything like that, I have a hard time even following what you've done. I didn't have the vision for it. What a build. Beautiful.

 I would be in heaven playing with that layout. I may someday be able to have helpers climb to assist up a simple grade on my RR. It is kind of simple just running around the walls. I have all the utilities in the middle and built a bathroom there which wasted my RR space. I would have preferred an extra powder room built upstairs for guests.

 Ah well, maybe the next house can have a better layout.  ....or I can live vicariously there with your postings!

Originally Posted by Keystoned Ed:

Thanks for the kind remarks guys. 

 

Chester: The Middle Division and Altoona yard are at a base elevation of 47".  The Pittsburgh Division climbs at 2.2% westbound out of Altoona to a height of 78" where after entering the Gallitzin tunnels the railroad crosses over the main aisle (77" clearance for tall folks) and fans out into the Pittsburgh Division 5 track staging loop which is suspended from the ceiling.  I built a 12" raised floor down the Horseshoe Curve aisle to get a better rail fan view of the trains. 

 

On the opposite side of the backdrops in the Horseshoe Curve aisle is a single track representation of the PRR's  Tyrone and Clearfield coal branch.   It also climbs up and over the main aisle and then down to the Osceola Mills yard serving area coal mines.  A 3.75% grade on the branch requires doubling the hill (as they did on the prototype).

 

Joe: the Centipedes are repowered early Overland units and will mostly serve in the Altoona snapper (helper) pool.  The coupler on the pilot is pinned open so that it can push without coupling.  That yields two advantages.  If the snapper stalls suddenly it won't string line cars ahead of it on a curve, and it also enables dropping off the snapper on the fly. To facilitate this PRR cabin cars typically had a pair of chains on the end platform (one to the uncoupling lever, the other to the brake lines) so the rear end crew could pull the pin while the train was moving. 

 

For those that may be interested, I've re-posted the track plan. To keep it somewhat legible the hidden staging trackage isn't shown.

 

Ed

Thanks for the info eh

How big is the layout room?

Last edited by chester7
Originally Posted by Bob Delbridge:
Originally Posted by Engineer-Joe:

Not only can't I imagine building anything like that, I have a hard time even following what you've done.....

Joe, If I hadn't had Ed showing me around I would have gotten lost and never gotten out of his basement   I'm still "Slack-Jawed" from seeing it earlier this year (2nd time!!!).

Well... 2 things come to mind. First, Congrats to U for being there.

and second, if it were me, seeing the climb up 3.75% grades with helpers, I wouldn't leave.

 So, he better never let me in!

Sorry for all the comments. I like a good build! It's exciting to see it to the finish.

I need to stare at the track plan some more and try to see it in the third dimension.

Beautiful! That's been our favorite vacation spot for many years. Wow, the amount of work that went into that.

 

The trees around the inside of the real Curve were cut back a few years ago, but have grown out again. There are a few big ones in the viewing area at the top, and if you've ever been up there in July and August, you'll wish there were more. It's locked up in winter now--not sure whether you can climb the old road from the parking lot--but we were there one February. To put it mildly, it gets a little chilly when the wind howls down the mountain and the snow is flying.

 

Of course, the other good viewing spots around the area are open all year.

I sincerely regret that I must be the one to point out an absolutely FATAL FLAW in this layout! Despite all the positive input from everyone, nobody has noticed WHAT I HAVE DETECTED WITH only a FEW short minutes of study! It's an absolute NO-BRAINER that it should be located in MY BASEMENT!!!!!!

 

ALL KIDDING aside, WONDERFUL STUFF, ED, and it couldn't be owned by a nicer fellow!

 

Simon

prrhorseshoecurve:  I'd add a May West N6b next to the gift shop but on researching the evolution the features in the area I found that they didn't display a cabin car at the site until after my 1952 era.  The cabin car, food shop, gift shop addition and K4s 1361 were significant feature changes that happened later in the 50's.  In my time frame the most noticeable new feature was a wrought iron fence to keep visitors a safe distance from the tracks.

 

Chester7:  the railroad occupies around 2100 sq ft of a 2700 sq ft basement.  A big advantage of single story living floor plans in our area is that for each square foot of space the family needs you can have a similar amount of space for a railroad and workshop.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Keystoned Ed:

prrhorseshoecurve:  I'd add a May West N6b next to the gift shop but on researching the evolution the features in the area I found that they didn't display a cabin car at the site until after my 1952 era.  The cabin car, food shop, gift shop addition and K4s 1361 were significant feature changes that happened later in the 50's.  In my time frame the most noticeable new feature was a wrought iron fence to keep visitors a safe distance from the tracks.

 

Chester7:  the railroad occupies around 2100 sq ft of a 2700 sq ft basement.  A big advantage of single story living floor plans in our area is that for each square foot of space the family needs you can have a similar amount of space for a railroad and workshop.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

Nice space   I thought my basement area for a layout was big at 900 sqft I really want to build something similar but not sure where to start eh do you have pics of the benchwork at the start of the build?

Last edited by chester7
Originally Posted by Keystoned Ed:

prrhorseshoecurve:  I'd add a May West N6b next to the gift shop but on researching the evolution the features in the area I found that they didn't display a cabin car at the site until after my 1952 era.  The cabin car, food shop, gift shop addition and K4s 1361 were significant feature changes that happened later in the 50's.  In my time frame the most noticeable new feature was a wrought iron fence to keep visitors a safe distance from the tracks.

 

Chester7:  the railroad occupies around 2100 sq ft of a 2700 sq ft basement.  A big advantage of single story living floor plans in our area is that for each square foot of space the family needs you can have a similar amount of space for a railroad and workshop.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

You are truly blessed Ed, you have enough space to really appreciate what O scale has to offer.   Unfortunately zoning and property/school taxes that will never go but in one direction (PLEASE no political responses anyone) precludes me from that dream.

 

Your railroad is certainly befitting of "The Standard Railroad of the World". 

Chad - This is my 4th O scale 2 rail layout (4th and hopefully last house).  The first was a very simple thrice around rising/falling oval in 18x12' room.  It had 48" minimum radius curves that locomotives (up to a USH 4-8-2) and full length passenger cars could negotiate.  It served me well as an un-sceniced test bed for newly acquired equipment ( and O scale track laying skills) until an anticipated job related house move came about.  With job progression came a series of houses with slightly larger basements and a more defined sense of what kind of layout operations I wanted.  Model railroading every Friday night for 30+ years with John Armstrong needless to say was a great influence.  Ten years ago I retired and sold the house in Fairfax,VA.   I was able to design and build a house with a "dream" basement in Williamsburg for far, far less. An added benefit was that a friend wanted to buy my old railroad, enabling me to start  fresh along with some seed money.  After move-in I used 3rd PlanIt software to design the railroad while I was building out the unfinished basement.  While one doesn't need software to design modest sized layouts, I recommend it for large or complex ones.   

 

There is no one right way to build model railroad benchwork - but since you asked I'll share how I did mine.  Over the years I've hosted a good number of layout visits and operating sessions and as a result my value preferences about layout configuration has evolved. As this will be my last railroad, considerations for portability/reuse did not influence my approach to building benchwork.  For a walk around railroad where you are going to have a good number of operators and spectators it is highly desirable to have comfortable aisles that "flow" with the right of way.  To that end I have very few sections of benchwork that are angular.  A attached are a few pictures of the benchwork in progress in the Horseshoe Curve area.    I use 1x4 open frame construction and risers supporting 3/4" plywood sub roadbed. I use 1/2" Homosote I cut into a roadbed profile under the track.  In yards I lay it as a sheet. Where the railroad is against the wall I lag bolt the horizontal 1x4 frame to the studs for strength and stability - it also saves on legs.  I am not a fan of L girder construction as it results in "thick" framing which reduces clearance under the layout.  When wiring or installing turnout motors the extra clearance is nice.   I avoided solid table top construction in all but areas for yards and towns.  This enabled me to contour the terrain both above and below the track. In areas where curfing a 1x4 side rail wouldn't accommodate the desired curve - I used 2 laminates of 3/8" bending plywood (sometimes called wiggle wood) for the aisle edge of the framing.  To do this I ripped the 4'8 sheet of bending plywood in the 8 foot direction to a height that matched a 1x4. 

 

When building the benchwork I covered the floor in the immediate area with red rosin (builder's) paper and drew the benchwork directly on the paper full scale.  One by four cross members were drawn in on nominal 16-18" centers avoiding locations under turnout points. Each framing member was numbered on the paper (on the cut board).  With few "straight" aisles my  frame cross members often do not meet the side rails at 90 degrees.  However angles and lengths of the cross members are taken directly from the paper, and the cuts made on a chop saw.  I assembled 8 to 12' sections of benchwork on the floor (on the paper) using glue and drywall screws.  Completed sections were tied to the adjacent one with 1x4 lap plates.  C clamps comes in handy at this stage.  For legs I use a good grade of 2x4's fastened to the cross members with 1/4 - 20 bolts.  The Legs were inset 6" from the aisle to minimize the risk of people kicking them.  Before permanently fastening the legs to the frame I made sure the framing was dead level (a 4' level helps) as it becomes the reference for later setting sub roadbed heights on long grades. Once the framing was up cut the 3/4" plywood for the sub-roadbed.  The sub-roadbed was supported by a variety of risers depending on the height of the track above the frame.  For risers I often used scrap lumber found in dumpsters at construction sites (with prior permission).  The benchwork provides a strong and stable structure that I later had to climb on while laying track and building scenery.  

 

My last tip no matter what style of benchwork you build - take the time and use a good grade of materials to do it right as it will serve as the basis for everything that will follow. 

 

Ed

Attachments

Images (8)
  • IMG_1148
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  • layout March 2009 049
  • layout March 2009 035
  • layout March 2009 023
  • layout March 2009 011
  • layout March 2009 004
  • IMG_0908
Last edited by Keystoned Ed
Originally Posted by Keystoned Ed:

Chad - This is my 4th O scale 2 rail layout (4th and hopefully last house).  The first was a very simple thrice around rising/falling oval in 18x12' room.  It had 48" minimum radius curves that locomotives (up to a USH 4-8-2) and full length passenger cars could negotiate.  It served me well as an un-sceniced test bed for newly acquired equipment ( and O scale track laying skills) until an anticipated job related house move came about.  With job progression came a series of houses with slightly larger basements and a more defined sense of what kind of layout operations I wanted.  Model railroading every Friday night for 30+ years with John Armstrong needless to say was a great influence.  Ten years ago I retired and sold the house in Fairfax,VA.   I was able to design and build a house with a "dream" basement in Williamsburg for far, far less. An added benefit was that a friend wanted to buy my old railroad, enabling me to start  fresh along with some seed money.  After move-in I used 3rd PlanIt software to design the railroad while I was building out the unfinished basement.  While one doesn't need software to design modest sized layouts, I recommend it for large or complex ones.   

 

There is no one right way to build model railroad benchwork - but since you asked I'll share how I did mine.  Over the years I've hosted a good number of layout visits and operating sessions and as a result my value preferences about layout configuration has evolved. As this will be my last railroad, considerations for portability/reuse did not influence my approach to building benchwork.  For a walk around railroad where you are going to have a good number of operators and spectators it is highly desirable to have comfortable aisles that "flow" with the right of way.  To that end I have very few sections of benchwork that are angular.  A attached are a few pictures of the benchwork in progress in the Horseshoe Curve area.    I use 1x4 open frame construction and risers supporting 3/4" plywood sub roadbed. I use 1/2" Homosote I cut into a roadbed profile under the track.  In yards I lay it as a sheet. Where the railroad is against the wall I lag bolt the horizontal 1x4 frame to the studs for strength and stability - it also saves on legs.  I am not a fan of L girder construction as it results in "thick" framing which reduces clearance under the layout.  When wiring or installing turnout motors the extra clearance is nice.   I avoided solid table top construction in all but areas for yards and towns.  This enabled me to contour the terrain both above and below the track. In areas where curfing a 1x4 side rail wouldn't accommodate the desired curve - I used 2 laminates of 3/8" bending plywood (sometimes called wiggle wood) for the aisle edge of the framing.  To do this I ripped the 4'8 sheet of bending plywood in the 8 foot direction to a height that matched a 1x4. 

 

When building the benchwork I covered the floor in the immediate area with red rosin (builder's) paper and drew the benchwork directly on the paper full scale.  One by four cross members were drawn in on nominal 16-18" centers avoiding locations under turnout points. Each framing member was numbered on the paper (on the cut board).  With few "straight" aisles my  frame cross members often do not meet the side rails at 90 degrees.  However angles and lengths of the cross members are taken directly from the paper, and the cuts made on a chop saw.  I assembled 8 to 12' sections of benchwork on the floor (on the paper) using glue and drywall screws.  Completed sections were tied to the adjacent one with 1x4 lap plates.  C clamps comes in handy at this stage.  For legs I use a good grade of 2x4's fastened to the cross members with 1/4 - 20 bolts.  The Legs were inset 6" from the aisle to minimize the risk of people kicking them.  Before permanently fastening the legs to the frame I made sure the framing was dead level (a 4' level helps) as it becomes the reference for later setting sub roadbed heights on long grades. Once the framing was up cut the 3/4" plywood for the sub-roadbed.  The sub-roadbed was supported by a variety of risers depending on the height of the track above the frame.  For risers I often used scrap lumber found in dumpsters at construction sites (with prior permission).  The benchwork provides a strong and stable structure that I later had to climb on while laying track and building scenery.  

 

My last tip no matter what style of benchwork you build - take the time and use a good grade of materials to do it right as it will serve as the basis for everything that will follow. 

 

Ed

That is awesome Ed   Thats how im thinking about building my bench work just not sure of how to run the track yet. I kinda know what I want but not sure how to get the track there Building the bench work wont be a problem once I get a plan I have all kinds of tools eh. This will be a modern RR with One of the major things I want is a open pit coal mine witha flood loading area I have all the mining shovels haul trucks and dozers and such. Dont want much city stuff but more of a rual setting Grain mill , ethonol plant/loading facility, Lumber yard, John Deere Dealer, in & out staging yard , locomotive shop, this is just some idears eh. I just dont know how to draw the track out so it flows eh I have been gathering all kinds of Ross turnouts and track I all so have a case of Gargraves flex track so far.  I have pretty much have all the rolling stock and Locomotives I need but you know how that goes i bet eh  

Last edited by chester7

I've held back posting an overview of the railroad as scenery in several areas along the route is basic.  The ballast  is down and the terrain is covered with at least some ground cover.  In most areas it looks pretty good when watching the trains in action, but IMO is not photo worthy.   As I "finish"  an area I'll share views on the OGR forum.  Now if Eric came to Williamsburg for a layout visit we'd ask him to shoot one of his fantastic video's.  Eventually I'll collaborate with Paul Dolkos on a follow up MR article.

 

Thanks again for the positive feedback

 

Ed

Last edited by Keystoned Ed

I had photos saved of his elevated yard up at the ceiling. You can see it in the background hanging on threaded rod. It was hard to imagine what it would end up looking like. It took some guts to go ahead with that major climb of the RR.

 Of course the computer gremlins took over and I lost all my saved stuff. I miss the pics of his RR, more than most of any other pictures that I lost. The ideas stuck with me.

 Looking at how he did it, inspires more building at my house. I went ahead and built my engine yard and expanded the car yard, after seeing his layout being built. I think we can learn from each other and it is fantastic, that he shares this.

Joe- I've re-posted a few pics of the 5 track Pittsburgh Division overhead staging loop.  At least that scene doesn't need trees to finish it!  I used overhead staging in the layout featured in the March 2000 MR article.  It worked very well (monitored by occupancy detectors and video cameras) and reused the approach in the current railroad.  Another O scale SPF in our community that I've  model railroaded for years with has an even larger one on his railroad .  The loop's plywood base was cut with a router on a radius arm while on the basement floor.  With the help of friends after test fitting it was  erected in sections. The Homasote roadbed was routed to clear the lap plates betwqeen the sections.  Not rocket science - just requires some additional planning and care in cross leveling the sections using the nuts on the threaded rods.

 

Jim - If you want to see the railroad while you're down in Williamsburg email me a week or so before and we'll try to find a mutually convenient time. 

 

Ed

Attachments

Images (7)
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  • IMG_4846
  • IMG_4614
  • IMG_4486
  • layout progress 2010-03 004 (480x640)
  • IMG_4605
  • routing the plywood
Last edited by Keystoned Ed
could you possibly post/send a video?
 
Originally Posted by Keystoned Ed:

prrhorseshoecurve:  I'd add a May West N6b next to the gift shop but on researching the evolution the features in the area I found that they didn't display a cabin car at the site until after my 1952 era.  The cabin car, food shop, gift shop addition and K4s 1361 were significant feature changes that happened later in the 50's.  In my time frame the most noticeable new feature was a wrought iron fence to keep visitors a safe distance from the tracks.

 

Chester7:  the railroad occupies around 2100 sq ft of a 2700 sq ft basement.  A big advantage of single story living floor plans in our area is that for each square foot of space the family needs you can have a similar amount of space for a railroad and workshop.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

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