My New Lionel TMCC Diesel engine not running

sounds like it is starting up in conventional. Check the aerial is connected . Then the r2 board is seated properly. 

It is a Lionel 6-18221 Rio Grande Diesel with TMCC. I did not see anything in the instructions about doing a reprogram. I don't know how to do this either. I don't know of any control on the Cab-1 remote that can lower the volume. I am pretty much a novice with this command control stuff. I have a K-Line Hudson with TMCC that I have used successfully with my command control system. I just don't understand what is going on with this diesel engine.  So I would appreciate it if  you guys who understand this could help me get this engine running. Bear in mind, this engine is brand new. It was factory sealed and has never been run before. It does not have a 9 volt battery in it either, if that makes any difference.

Haawk58 posted:

It is a Lionel 6-18221 Rio Grande Diesel with TMCC. I did not see anything in the instructions about doing a reprogram. I don't know how to do this either. I don't know of any control on the Cab-1 remote that can lower the volume. I am pretty much a novice with this command control stuff. I have a K-Line Hudson with TMCC that I have used successfully with my command control system. I just don't understand what is going on with this diesel engine.  So I would appreciate it if  you guys who understand this could help me get this engine running. Bear in mind, this engine is brand new. It was factory sealed and has never been run before. It does not have a 9 volt battery in it either, if that makes any difference.

I understand this locomotive is never used, and sealed in its box, but it’s not new anymore, it was manufactured in 1995.....one of the likely causes you’re having is the 24 year old grease is dried up like granite. .....I’ve seen this a bunch of times especially on Lionel’s from this era, and more especially from ones that were mint still sealed...it might be new, but it’s been sitting for 24 years.....you need to wake it up out of its slumber..........Pat

If the problem is dried up grease, could someone tell me how I can clean out the old dried up grease? And what kind of grease do I need to get to lube it up again? 

I would start by unplugging the power to your command base and see if the locomotive will work in conventional mode before trying anything else. It sounds like it’s starting in conventional which may indicate a bad radio receiver or simply an antenna problem. Go back to basics and see what you have. Dried up grease is bad for continued running but the thing should at least try to move. 

Ok, now we know it’s a beginning TMCC version of Command. My suggestion is to program this engine with the first two digits of the cab number. Example, if the number was 1995, use 19. With power on, 18 volts, Turn your run program switch to program, then press the ID number and press set. The Horn should blow. Turn off the track power, wait 10 seconds, turn the program switch to run. Now turn the track power on. Press the remote to the ID number and then press aux 1. Your engine should start up. In your instructions should be an example of the Cab 1 button functions. You should then be able to raise and lower the Diesel sounds. Each number has a function. There should also be a clear plastic insert that is square and fits over the Cab 1 keys.  They are easy to read. If all else fails, go to your local hobby shop for friendly good help.  Good luck. 

I hope you understand that Command is 18 volts to the track all the time. Conventional is transformer controlled. When 18 volts are on the track, your red knob controls the speed and to make the layout in command mode, you press the Cab-1 then the L button at the bottom of the remote to power up the track. So, this might be part of the issue.  Good luck.

Here is what you should do...

1. Ensure the command base is on.

2. Put engine on track and check to ensure the program run switch is in the run position.

3. Power up the track.

4. If the engine starts with sounds before you address it with the remote, then the engine is not detecting the command signal and is coming up in conventional mode.

If this is what is happening, then most likely the r2lc needs to be pulled and re-seated or the r2lc is bad and needs to be replaced.  Sometimes the connections oxidize from sitting so long and make bad connections.  Reseating the board fixes it.  Another possibility is the antenna wire is disconnected.

5. Try running the engine in conventional mode using the transformer controls.  If it runs OK in conventional, then its just the r2lc radio board I mentioned in step 4.

Lubrication- even if you get it running using the procedures here, you should clean and re-lube since this has been in the box for so long.  Open the gear box, remove as much of the old lube as possible ( a small flat stick might be a good choice), then use a plastic-safe solvent (I use CRC QD Electronic Cleaner) to clean out the old grease. 

Re-apply the gears with "Lionel Lube", or another synthetic plastic-safe grease such as LaBelle #106 (available from your LHS or online). 

 Close it up, re-oil the axles again using a plastic-safe oil (Lionel Oil or LaBelle #107).  

 It sounds like it’s starting up in conventional. The era in which these were made. Lionel offered many engines that were upgradeable to command with a kit that they sold. They were sold as Command Ready. Before everyone offers their diagnosis as to what the problem might be. Can you verify that the engine has TMCC. I’m not that familiar with the upgrade kits they offered. The engine may well have come with a factory program switch already installed.

 I agree with testing it in a conventional setting just to see it move.

 I looked up up the number you provided. It did mention a Lion Tech reverse unit and dual Pullmor motors. But one listing mentioned TMCC. Just trying to verify what you have.

Just guessing but if it was just "TMCC Ready" and not equipped would it have a "Program/ Run" switch at all, pending the addition of the upgrade kit??  I wouldn't think they would go to the expense of the switch and would include that in the upgrade kit.

 Mike, looked the engine up on Lionel parts site. It does show an antenna and 2 slide switches in the chassis. They may have wanted it to be a simple quick process to do an upgrade if that’s the case. No mention of any TMCC components such as an R2LC.  Not sure when coil couplers became standard. It shows the thumbtack style. The original poster said the engines manual didn’t cover anything such as a reset. Hopefully someone familiar with this engine or that era of Lionel command can figure out the problem.

TMCC Upgradeable stuff started with the modular boards, I don't recall ever seeing an upgradeable unit with the old LCRU1.  Since that would be mechanical work and soldering, I doubt it was ever offered.  I suspect he has a real TMCC issue.

you say it was in a sealed box what does the end of the box say. 

GunrunnerJohn what is LionTech command reverse unit? I'm guessing TMCC. Just they called it different back then. 

I had one with a bad board but it would run fine till warmed up then it went full throttle 

 Looking at the Rio Grande engine on the auction sites. It seems similar to a manual I found for an SD 40.  The engines manual shows how to up grade it to TMCC. It shows an already installed antenna and does feature a program switch which serves to lock the engine in a given direction. To add command. You un plug the reverse unit from the main board and replace it with an R2LC. It covers upgrading the sounds and adding coil couplers. The engine was made in 99.

This is a Lionel Rio Grande SD-50 diesel engine model # 6-1822. The side of the box says Railsounds II & Liontech Command Reverse Unit. Underneath there are 2 switches Comm/Run & a switch for full railsounds or just the whistle. The instructions tell how to operate it in the conventional mode or in the command mode. So there is no guessing about it, this is a TMCC command control engine. 

Is this your locomotive?  It's Lionel 6-18221, I can't find one with only four digits.

Here are the two units that have 1822 and are SD50 locomotives.

Pretty sure the LionTech command reverse unit was just the LCRU1 marketing name.

It's the 6-18221 the # on the engine is 5512. I made a new post explaining the new problems I am having. I manually pushed it back & forth on the track to free up the wheels. It is moving now, but it takes off like a rocket. It does this in conventional & command mode. I know it is supposed to sit still on the tracks while in the command mode and programming it into the command base, then the horn is supposed to honk. It is acting like it is locked into the conventional mode at full throttle. I also noticed that it is not making the loud engine sounds like it did when it would not move.

Sure sounds to me like the LCRU is having a problem with reception.  If it doesn't see a TMCC signal, it'll take off when you apply track power.

I see now, that it has an lcru 1 and an antenna. Time to check the antenna, etc since the other TMCC engine runs on the layout?

I've never done this before. So, how do I check the LCRU antenna? What does it look like, and how do I know if it is connected and working right or not. I need some instruction details.

Look here at #1 for the antenna

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...amp;CFTOKEN=82289485

If you click on the picture image next to the part #1 it will bring up a better picture 

can someone print out the startup text for an early Lionel TMCC for me so I can start up the old engine. I am doing something wrong I am guessing.

John

@John Pignatelli JR. posted:

can someone print out the startup text for an early Lionel TMCC for me so I can start up the old engine. I am doing something wrong I am guessing.

John

John send me a private message and I will send my phone number then we can talk it through if you like.

craig

PennCentralShops

John;

These pages are from a 2002 TMCC Diesel. Hope these help. If you need something different, let me know.

I have had several Lionel 18221 D&RG SD50 engines - they are not TMCC equipped.

@Grampstrains - I'm looking at page 30 of the 1995 'hard copy' of the 1995 Lionel catalogue in which this engine (Denver & Rio Grande SD-50 with RailSounds II 6-18221 as well as D & RG with Diesel Horn 6-18222) appeared, and in the list of features each engine has TMCC is not listed.  However, what may be confusing the issue is that right beside the list of features for the SD-50s it has Trainmaster Command Equipped in big bold letters followed by "See page 62 to learn more about the exciting new world of TrainMaster Command."

@rtraincollector - Also, the list of features that 6-18221 has includes the term Liontech e-unit and explains "allows you to run multiple powered engines in tandem without locking out the reversing unit."

Thanks, good people for the help. there were a few problems, the 990 was dead the batteries died. and the charger ports were taped over. all is fine now all are running well.

John P