N/S F-7 270 (20-21357-1) Herky-Jerky running, and lost pulling power. Ugh.

Ed, send this baby back'... while they are still in operation... Could be numerous problems with the boards, wiring, motors and gears.  Sounds likes gears to me... but not worth fooling with... see if you can get a refund... So sorry for your trouble. I know you loved this engine'....😢😒🤬

Ed,  I assume you purchased this F-7 new from a reputable vendor.  It is under warranty, call them and send it back.  It can either be repaired and returned to you or you should get a new one.

Bruce

Bruce & Ted, yes, bought it new from a very reputable dealer.  Thanks, I was hoping there was some magic dance or hand waive that would make it all better.     Sending it back is just such a hassle, but,that's all you can do....

@ToledoEd posted:

Bruce & Ted, yes, bought it new from a very reputable dealer.  Thanks, I was hoping there was some magic dance or hand waive that would make it all better.     Sending it back is just such a hassle, but,that's all you can do....

I know it's a hassle.... but'... you have no choice...It's best to get rid of headaches as quickly as possible'.... No need for more bummers down the road'..... Send it off, forget it, and build a structure'....😁

Do you have ballasted track?  If so, check for loose ballast in the gearing.

I agree with what ^^Bob said.  Check for ballast or the rubber traction tire jammed in the gears.  On a multi-motored set like this, if one motor jams or loses power, the remaining motor will not move the train.

Not sure of your comfort level with repairs, and I don't know the terms of MTH's warranty.  But if it were mine, I would probably check for basic mechanical problems, disconnected wires, etc., before sending it back.

Well if it doesn't go back I had some thoughts. A MTH that loses it's tach signal can go goofy. That depends on a couple of things though. I agree with Ted. Your issue almost sounds like a truck misbehaving for some reason. That could be anything from a broken wire, tight (wires?) so it can't swivel, etc.

First and always, look closely at the traction tires if equipped. There were a release of G scale tires that liquified when run. Then swivel the trucks and check for free full motion in all directions. Of course, make sure all wheels turn! Edit: (under power)

If you go inside spin the flywheels fully and check for binding like previously suggested.

I hate seeing engines returned for the easy stuff. I buy some second hand and find that something easy went wrong.

@Engineer-Joe posted:

Of course, make sure all wheels turn!

If you go inside spin the flywheels fully and check for binding like previously suggested.

You probably already know this, but DON'T try to turn the wheels from the outside with your fingers!  You could ruin the mechanism.  The gears are self-locking so the wheels are not able to turn the motor.  The only way to check for mechanical binds is to remove the shell and gently turn each flywheel by hand.  This will not hurt the motor or gears.  Be careful not to get grease on the black-and-white stripes.

Hi Ed,

• I have a Railking Scale Amtrak FP-45 that had similar symptoms a few years back.  I posted a thread here for help and a forum member named GGG aka George told me to check if the screws securing the trucks to motors were both tightened down.  Sure enough, that was it, the motor gear was not meshing into the truck gear properly.  So I suggest tighten the truck screws first.  If there is any play or movement after that your might have a cross threaded screw or one that might be too long to secure the truck to the motor.  I caught it in time and shortly after I put it to the test pulling 11 Weaver 20" aluminum cars and a non powered unit as demonstrated in the video below.  So even with 40 incandescent bulbs (10 lighted cars) pulling several amps, your MTH engine should have no problem pulling your consist.

Thanks Gents. I checked: traction tires are tight on the tires, not binding with anything and no ballast in the gears.  I've got an email into the vendor re: the warranty before I open it up.  

@ToledoEd posted:

Thanks Gents. I checked: traction tires are tight on the tires, not binding with anything and no ballast in the gears.  I've got an email into the vendor re: the warranty before I open it up.  

I think if you open her up'... you void the warranty... be careful'...🙄

Ted, I will not. I'll wait for replies from MTH and the vendor.  

ToledoEd - I experienced the same 'Herky- Jerky' syndrome with a brand new Lionel engine that I bought a few years ago.  Initially it ran fine but within a short period of time the same problem arose.  Ultimately Mike Reagan determined that the encoder wheel was loose on the flywheel and fixed it.  Since then I've had no problems.  Consequently you may want to check this if you haven't done so already.

Good Luck!

You could just look at all the wheels on the rails and make sure they all are turning.

@ToledoEd posted:

Ted, I will not. I'll wait for replies from MTH and the vendor.  

I hope the vendor steps in and takes charge, .....and just replaces the the affected loco for you......I’m not sure I’d send anything back to HQ for repairs....given the current lay of the land........I know it’s a horrible thing to say, but I’d trust ( and pay) GGG to fix it and get it up to snuff...before I sent it into the abyss......just be careful and CYA.....

Pat

@PH1975 posted:

ToledoEd - I experienced the same 'Herky- Jerky' syndrome with a brand new Lionel engine that I bought a few years ago.  Initially it ran fine but within a short period of time the same problem arose.  Ultimately Mike Reagan determined that the encoder wheel was loose on the flywheel and fixed it.  Since then I've had no problems.  Consequently you may want to check this if you haven't done so already.

If the flywheel is loose on this one, it'll take a bit more work.  The flywheels are pressed on, so it would have to go back anyway.

@Engineer-Joe posted:

You could just look at all the wheels on the rails and make sure they all are turning.

If you have a set of rollers, you can check.

@harmonyards posted:

I hope the vendor steps in and takes charge, .....and just replaces the the affected loco for you......I’m not sure I’d send anything back to HQ for repairs....given the current lay of the land........I know it’s a horrible thing to say, but I’d trust ( and pay) GGG to fix it and get it up to snuff...before I sent it into the abyss......just be careful and CYA.....

Pat

Pat, thanks for the caution.  Unfortunately, the vendor has not units with which to replace it.  When it first arrived and I had trouble getting the DCS to recognize it I did talk to the Hobby Shop.  I was told there were no units available.  I think I remember him saying that was true at MTH as well. "All sold out" so I'm not hopeful for a replacement.  I've not yet heard back from either the Vendor or MTH...I'm going to wait until next week then follow up.  I think I may have bought my last MTH engine.

I decided to send it back to MTH. Got through on the phone on my first try. A fellow in Michigan should receive it tomorrow. When I explained the problem he thought it was  a"tach" issue.  Again thanks for the comments and advice.  

@ToledoEd posted:

I decided to send it back to MTH. Got through on the phone on my first try. A fellow in Michigan should receive it tomorrow. When I explained the problem he thought it was  a"tach" issue.  Again thanks for the comments and advice.  

Ed, may I ask what is a Tach issue"?  ANd happy to hear it went back'.... Smart move'....

Ted, it is the way the engine determines speed, is my understanding. A tachometer. 

@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

Ed, may I ask what is a Tach issue"?  ANd happy to hear it went back'.... Smart move'....

@ToledoEd posted:

Ted, it is the way the engine determines speed, is my understanding. A tachometer. 

The tachometer is attached to a motor and reads a tac tape on the flywheel.  It is for speed and for matching sounds to speed.

@Ron045 posted:

The tachometer is attached to a motor and reads a tac tape on the flywheel.  It is for speed and for matching sounds to speed.

 Wow that is amazing'.. who would have thought'...

For those still interested in this saga.  I received a call from the tech to tell me he was running the engine for 30 min. with no issues.  The nest day I got another call and he informed me: " I was running it again with no issues and was about to wrap it up when it...stopped....then herky-jerky."  He said he's sure it's a problem with the gearing in the front truck. The wheels would stop moving and the rear truck was trying to move the engine but of course couldn't.  I'm so glad I sent it to MTH and that the symptoms showed up for the Technician. (Samuel). By the way, I've impressed with him and his customer support.  Until the next time....keep those trains moving!

@ToledoEd posted:

....The wheels would stop moving and the rear truck was trying to move the engine ....

 Well I guess it wasn't the tachometer...'... Let's hope Samuel is correct in his assessment..............Best thing you did was sending it in...........👍 

@ToledoEd posted:

By the way, I've impressed with him and his customer support.  Until the next time....keep those trains moving!

Enjoy it while it lasts, next year all those guys will be looking for new jobs.

John, I spoke to him about the future. He had a great attitude, but was resigned to MTH closing with no buyers. Hope....

@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

 Well I guess it wasn't the tachometer...'... Let's hope Samuel is correct in his assessment..............Best thing you did was sending it in...........👍 

You are so right!

Glad you got it fixed, sad those skills will be "lost" now. Hoping for the best for the employees in the future.

@Chas posted:

Hi Ed,

• I have a Railking Scale Amtrak FP-45 that had similar symptoms a few years back.  I posted a thread here for help and a forum member named GGG aka George told me to check if the screws securing the trucks to motors were both tightened down.  Sure enough, that was it, the motor gear was not meshing into the truck gear properly.  So I suggest tighten the truck screws first.  If there is any play or movement after that your might have a cross threaded screw or one that might be too long to secure the truck to the motor.  I caught it in time and shortly after I put it to the test pulling 11 Weaver 20" aluminum cars and a non powered unit as demonstrated in the video below.  So even with 40 incandescent bulbs (10 lighted cars) pulling several amps, your MTH engine should have no problem pulling your consist.

Was I close?  What do I win?  LOL  

I am so glad they are getting fixed for you!  

@Chas posted:

Was I close?  What do I win?  LOL  

I am so glad they are getting fixed for you!  

@Chas posted:

Was I close?  What do I win?  LOL  

I am so glad they are getting fixed for you!  

@Chas, you were spot-on. You win my undying devotion and admiration. Oh, and a cup'o java if I see you at the next York meet! 

The way things are going he might be waiting a long time for that coffee>