Need ITAD Advice

Well, if you believe the ITAD "does not work properly" then I'd get my money back or a replacement.  To each his own but I think something I paid $30 should work as intended.

Plus, if you're installing this in a mountain where it is presumably shielded from ambient lights, it should work just fine.  Did you test it away from interfering sources of Infrared light which could be sunlight, a lamp, bright overhead lights, whatever?

What transformer are you using? Do you have an unused tap?

Can you make an insulated outside rail?

The relay,as I mentioned in your other post is no more complicated than the ITAD,which is also a circuit which drives a relay.

To answer your question Lionel makes a good ITAD. Even that can be influenced by room lighting.

Dale H

So,

Which track are you using and how are you powering the ITAD?

There is a caution in the instructions explaining that if you run it on RealTrax on track power, that you are relying on the wheels to complete the -Common of the circuit. This can cause intermittent operation.

Powering the Itad and the lights on the 452 on Auxillary power would seem the most reliable method.

I have to dig through the old Lionel docs for the Gantry wiring scheme.

Perhaps you could troubleshoot the Itad operation with a meter connected to determine if it is triggering reliably.

Sorry that I left out information...

I'm using old Lionel "Super O" track, and thus I'm putting aux power to the ITAD from a Lionel ZW transformer.

Ok, that's good. track power switch off? (sorry, had to ask in case you overlooked it)

perhaps it's the height only "seeing" wheels. (hit \miss kind of thing. Anyway to raise it for a test to bottom car level.

I don't know how focused the emitter is.

I've had 5 Lionel units in operation for 8 years with no problems. This subject came up often 5 or 6 years ago. Bottom line was: MTH units seem to malfunction under certain room light sources.

452 is simple enough 3 to common on the Itad and 1 to NC(if it's green) and red #2 to NO.

Use the same common and power for both from the ZW. 452 needs it's own power.

I would start with the delay at the midpoint and adjust for the red to go green to your liking.

I think MTH stuffs like 14v. Could try 12v if you 12v bulbs in the 452.

So, is the Itad still misbehaving? 

Hi again, and thanks to everyone for offering advice on my problem. Yes; this MTH ITAD is definitely switched to "aux power" but no motion (not a train, not my hand, not a screwdriver, etc) seems to trigger the the switching action. The only way that I can produce a CLICK that in turn changes the light color on the Lionel 452 is by turning the sensitivity/delay potentiometers, and there is no rhyme or reason as to how often the CLICK will occur. I have done all combinations of sensitivity/delay proportions, but nothing comes even remotely close to proper operation. It's a dimly-lit garage area, and lights off/lights on proves to have no bearing.

I have in fact confirmed correct wiring, and I've switched from 12v to 14v with no change in operation (or lack thereof). Short of testing with a meter--which would seriously be stretching my electronic abilities, I'm embarrassed to admit--can I assume that I have a defective ITAD?

Thanks once again to all of you for taking the time out to help.

Moonman, in re-reading your post, I see you mention that the 452 needs its own power. I have the 452 wired to the MTH 40-1028 ITAD just as you advised, and the ITAD is in turn wired to the ZW. Could you be kind enough to clarify what you meant by the 452 needing its own power?

I read the directions, with the words pushed together, incorrectly.  I didn't grasp that The Itad still passed power through on Aux power.

You should only get one click for each detection until the timer expires. Turning the delay to zero should produce a click on each detection.

I can't pronounce it defective, but you can because it shouldn't be this difficult. Give MTH cust service a call. They will be open at 12:00 hours EDT.

I have taken an interest in this as we have a few on the layout that we are restoring for a museum as an Eagle Scout project. We haven't tried them or discerned their role in the layout yet. Not sure if they are for accessory activation or route control for switching.

My experience was that the light from my room lights caused inconsistent operation with MTH being worse in this regard than Lionel's unit.  If it is in the tunnel, it should operate more reliably. I also noticed a difference in behavior from incandescent and CFL room lights. I had sufficient issues that I will not include them on my rebuilt layout this summer. 

I will post once more then bow out. Years back,I had a very long discussion and spent a lot of time analyzing this unit. Someone was trying to use 2 of them for a task and could not get it to work.  One of the problems is that the relay contacts contained in this device are not unencumbered. That is, the detection circuit is somehow tied in to the common relay contact as I remember. This can cause all kinds of havoc if not hooked up with this in mind. MTH does not seem to have this information and another forum member,who is an electrical engineer found this out by disassembling the unit in question. The original poster seems fixated on using this expensive,complicated and poorly designed device so I wish him luck. If he gets it working please share with others how he managed that feat. If it were me I would use a simple relay and either return the device or use it for a paper weight,if it is heavy enough.  Over and out. 

FWIW here is a link to the thread

LINK

Dale H

Use the Lionel one They are far superior!!!

Fred

Hello Dale--

I thank you for offering your thorough instructions and diagrams for creating a relay circuit. I meant no disrespect at all; I did read through your entire link, but a man must know his limitations, and I simply lack the brain power to adapt the idea to my own application. I'm not necessarily fixated on using this particular MTH ITAD, but I'm trying to determine with relative certainty that this one in fact has a defect--or that it's simply a poor design--and if so, I am looking for opinions as to which of the various ITAD devices is most reliable. Perhaps I will try to return this 40-1028 to the trainz.com people and I will look for a Lionel offering.

If you can make the insulated rail and have an un used transformer tap of the ZW, I will send you a free relay set up with a hookup diagram. It may take me a while to make up.  Remember the accessory will stay switched on whenever any car or engine sits on it, so you have to make the insulated outside section the proper length. From about 18 inches to as long as desired. I am not that familiar with super O track but I think it has plastic ties. You would need to make gaps or use plastic pins.  The 2 outer rails can not be connected across in the section. The train wheels do that. Perhaps someone with the track can chime in. The train wheels do the connecting electrically speaking.  Hook it up as directed,it should work. 

Dale H

Those are the only plug'n'plays that I know of.

The rest are assemble your own.

So, the Lionel will work the first time, no aggravation and it looks like something train related.

As Moonman suggests, turn the DELAY adjustment to minimum or zero seconds.  You say you can tell when it works because you hear a click.  Set the SENSITIVITY adjustment to mid-range.  In your dimly-lit area you should be able to make it click on and off by placing/removing your hand in front of the window.  Adjusting the SENSITIVITY makes it click with your hand further/closer to the window.  If his one-minute test doesn't work, send it back and consider your options.

Hello Men--

Original poster here.

I did as suggested by turning DELAY all the way to min/zero, with SENSITIVITY @50%. Nothing. I continued tweaking the two adjustments and waving in front of the device with no luck or consistency, just as I'd observed the other day.

Then something happened, though I don't know what it was.

With the DELAY set roughly 75% to max and the SENSITIVITY around 25%, it suddenly started to work when I waved my hand in front of it. Tried pushing my Alaska #6636 hopper in front of it, and sure enough...CLICK. I then ran the entire train constant through the layout @5 times with no issues. Next I backed off the DELAY ever so slightly so the 452 gantry would return from red back to green @5 seconds after the train passed by (down from @10 seconds) and it continued to function without a hitch. I summoned my 4-yr-old daughter, and we ran the train about 50 times around the layout with all accessories illuminated. The MTH unit worked 100%.

No explanation as to why the MTH ITAD suddenly began working: electronics continue to elude me and this stuff is all black magic to me.

I will now begin with the artistic aspect of creating the winter mountain scenery, and I thank everyone for his input. Should this ITAD revert to non-operation, I will either offer to purchase a custom circuit from Dale, or I will go with the Lionel 153ir.

Thanks again.

I maintain that with your under-a-mountain ambient lighting, the MTH ITAD (and the Lionel 153IR) should work 100% without a hitch.  The electronics in these detectors is quite simple as electronics go.  So I believe the ITAD is a valid solution for your application but you unfortunately got a defective unit.  I'd guess a loose componen/wire/connection inside the assembly. After repeated jostling it presently works but who knows for how long.  There's a case for returning it, presumably under warranty, since it is intermittent and hence defective.  As to whether it's matter or principle, or worth your time, etc. is obviously your call.