Need some Layout advice

Tom, my personal preference is to have a connection to an upper loop.  However, I had over 40 years experience in HO and N scales before switching to O gauge in 2012.  There all the “experts” frowned on separate loops since prototypical operations were in vogue.  I’m with you, if you like it do it whatever way suits you.  As they say, “It’s your railroad”.

Now, as I get older, if I build another layout, I may go for separate flat loops; no grades.  This stuff gets harder to build when you are over 65. 😄

I apologize if it’s been already mentioned. Is the plan to have the layouts height to be at the bottom of the windows ?   Nothing wrong with a low layout. I know you are a long way from wiring the layout. Looking at Dave’s plans where the layout more or less hugs the walls. I would place my track feeders where they are needed and run them to the layouts edge. You can then sit comfortably in a chair and hook everything up. All can be hidden by a fascia. Back when I was in my thirties. I never gave it a thought. Now in my late 60’s I wish I had.

The 2 windows you mentioned could be addressed with bridges. I would consider installing a gate type bridge that the benchwork itself swings open if  you plan to bring the height of the railroad up and partially cover the windows. I believe it would give you the most access to the window itself and still allow it to be sceniced.

As far as an isolated upper loop. I say go for it if the goal is just to watch the trains run. If you have a couple of passenger trains that would be perfect. A simple loop with wide radius curves and a passing siding. I was interested in passenger operations when I started out. Realized early on. Just how much room they take up trying to find a place to park them when not being used or modeling a prototypical station.

@Dave_C posted:

I apologize if it’s been already mentioned. Is the plan to have the layouts height to be at the bottom of the windows ?   Nothing wrong with a low layout. I know you are a long way from wiring the layout. Looking at Dave’s plans where the layout more or less hugs the walls. I would place my track feeders where they are needed and run them to the layouts edge. You can then sit comfortably in a chair and hook everything up. All can be hidden by a fascia. Back when I was in my thirties. I never gave it a thought. Now in my late 60’s I wish I had.

I did my wiring exactly as Dave said for the reason he suggested.  I can vouch for the fact that planning needs to go into wiring, since I was in my mid 60s when I started wiring.  I did some additions a few months ago in my late 60s, and it was even harder. 

As always, more comments.

It sounds like you're leaning toward the around the room design with the 36" decking and peninsula. I think that would be a good choice and we can work on enhancing it. If that's not the case though, then I'd like to know the footprint of the pull-down ladder, both where it is in the ceiling and where it ends up on the floor. As I said, my last design option did not take that into account and might be a reason to dismiss that option altogether. Also, you gave us distances from the walls to the pony walls around the stairs, so the rectangle in the design should be close to accurate. If it's not, that's something we need to fix.

Any section can be made modular and mobile if you plan ahead. Tracks can be cut where the modules meet. The hard part is separating the landscaping, especially when you add elevations, mountains, etc. If you plan ahead, there are things you can do to keep the sections separate and not have to try cutting them after the fact. Here's a link to a thread that shows how to do a swing-out module. This is a corner module, but the same concept can apply to a pull out modules at the windows or beneath the mini splits. The module could be a simple rectangle, but a wedge might be a bit easier to get in/out. The window side would be as wide as the window while the aisle side would be a bit wider to eliminate any binding. The depth would have to be less than the width of the aisle.
https://ogrforum.com/topic/340...275#3963862654517275

As far a separate level vs continuous grades, I designed a layout with 2 completely separate levels. The owner wanted a logging operation for his Shay, but we didn't have room on the main level with all the other stuff we had there. And he didn't want to create just a small scene with a camp, a mill and a lumber yard in close proximity, he wanted a full run. So, we decided on a 2nd level for just the Shay and logging. I'm also helping with another design that also has a partial 2nd level. I'll send the SCARM files separately, so you can review the designs and 3D views at your leisure.

The problems with connected levels are the amount of space needed for the grade tracks and the amount of the main level that gets covered visually. Depending on what you want on the main level, decking that is 36" wide doesn't leave a lot of room for somewhat useless grade tracks going up/down. They take space away from operating tracks on the main level. Most multi-level designs I've seen, separate the levels by 18" for unencumbered access to and visibility of the main level. Some folks confuse the terms multi-levels (separate) and elevated levels (connected), both have multiple levels.

Mark, I had to replace 4 throw bars on some Ross turnouts in a yard area a couple of years ago while they were in place. I’d been putting it off for a bit. Crawling on the layouts top to remove them and put them in place. Then back under the layout to fish the Tortoise switch back through the throw-bars hole. What years ago would have taken me a couple of hours. Now took 2 days. I would keep everything close by to the aisle that may need attention down the road. I probably would opt for more of a shelf type layout if I were starting today.

Sorry for the lack of communication from me the last few days. Its been really busy at work, and I was out of town on Wednesday. On top of that, I am on call 24 hrs a day until Monday at 0700.... Have to pay for the trains somehow...

I will get some pictures posted of the attic ladder with some measurements on how far away it is from the knee wall and the adjacent wall.

I know it is more work, but I think I would like to have a run up to the second level and a way to keep trains up there running so I don't always have to run them up and run them down.. if that makes any sense? I don't need the upper loop to be anything complicated, I just think it would be cool to be able to run the train up there and then be able to reverse it and bring it back down when I wanted too.

I love the around the room layout.. I think that gives me the best way to have nice long runs for my coal drags and my intermodal trains. My only concern is how to make it work with the windows and the attic ladder and the whiskey bar. I could also make the track run over the stairway up to the layout? I think that could be a space that would be neat. Daz and Bill sent me a bunch of ideas to run through SCARM... so I have so work to do. I think at this point I know I want a layout with nice long runs in a mountainous terrain, with a second level that I can run up to and keep trains up top if I wanted to. I like the peninsula with the roundhouse and diesel service facility. The biggest question for me is whether or not the around the room will work with the limitations I have, but I have other options to fulfill my "wants" with other designs as well.

Tom

Tom, no need to worry about taking a few days to get back in touch.  Even retirees like me have time periods we can’t reply, not to mention we remember the days we were juggling on call, overtime, children’s activities, care for elderly parents, the list goes on!

We ended up with an upper level with not much more in addition to what you describe except I have two inclines so the train can go up, run around a while, then come down going forward.  That did cause a scenicing dilemma, but I am putting that off while concentrating on other parts of the layout.  I don’t like backing a train down a grade that also has curves and switches at the bottom.  Two inclines.  Something else to consider. 😎

@Mark Boyce posted:

Tom, no need to worry about taking a few days to get back in touch.  Even retirees like me have time periods we can’t reply, not to mention we remember the days we were juggling on call, overtime, children’s activities, care for elderly parents, the list goes on!

We ended up with an upper level with not much more in addition to what you describe except I have two inclines so the train can go up, run around a while, then come down going forward.  That did cause a scenicing dilemma, but I am putting that off while concentrating on other parts of the layout.  I don’t like backing a train down a grade that also has curves and switches at the bottom.  Two inclines.  Something else to consider. 😎

Hey Mark,

I definitely want to be able to get a train to the second level run it around and then bring it back down when I'm done. I just don't know whether or not I could do it with a reverse loop on top and bring the train back down the way it came up, or like you described, just add another switch and bring the train down a second incline.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I did my wiring exactly as Dave said for the reason he suggested.  I can vouch for the fact that planning needs to go into wiring, since I was in my mid 60s when I started wiring.  I did some additions a few months ago in my late 60s, and it was even harder. 

Im an IT guy so clean wiring is what I do! I definitely plan to wire as much as I can to the outside just to avoid having to crawl or lay on my back to wire up everything or when troubleshooting.

I know I am putting the cart before the horse... but I still have to educate myself on how I can isolate power so that when I am running trains only the track(s) I am using will be powered on. I need to figure out how to power the whisker tracks so that I can turn them off when not in use or when I am using them to store trains. I have heard that is a great way to save on amperage and save on the amount of power supplies you will need to have. I do not have a ZW, ZW-L or MTH Z 4000. Just 4 180W powerhouse power supplies.

I had room for a second incline, so you certainly would have room for it as well, and not as steep as mine either.

I’m glad you are well versed on clean and organized wiring.  Tagging and documentation too.  Once you have a plan then splitting it for different power feeds will fall into place. 👍🏻

Mark, at this point I have the 2nd level 20" higher, but that’s only because I don’t know how wide it has to be, how tall things on the lower level will be, etc. I just wanted to see how high I could make it and stay under 3%.

Higher is better to be able to see trains and scenery on the lower level.