New Atlas Wagontop Boxcars---PRR

Norm posted:

This looks to be an interesting car.  I am wondering if the Pennsy actually rostered any of them.

The catalog states it as an "alternate historical paint scheme",whatever that is.

Norm 

Sounds better than the much used " Fantasy Scheme" common to the 3 rail MFGs, I believe Atlas is starting to go in this direction to insure minimum BTO reservations. JMO

The PRR did not have "wagontop" boxcars.  They did have round roof boxcars, which were of a different design.  PRR's round roof cars were flat roof boxcars where the roof was replaced with a rounded one for more internal volume, but still have clearance for PRR's low tunnels. 

I believe the B&O's wagontop cars were specifically built that way to limit water leakage at the roof line.  I don't have either type of car, so it would be interesting if someone posted a picture of the two together to see the difference. 

The Wagon Tops were specific to the B&O as far as I know. Weaver made some nice ones several year ago, and having been produced overseas, had more detail.

Don

I wonder if Atlas used the Weaver tooling for these? I haven't seen one, but Atlas did acquire the foreign tooling from Weaver.

Don

These cars and the war emergency gondolas in the new Atlas catalog are almost certainly from the Weaver tooling.

The PRR wagon top boxcar is a definite foobie.

They got all the history correct about the B&O, so I wonder if the PRR may have acquired one or more at some point?

Don

rail posted:

They got all the history correct about the B&O, so I wonder if the PRR may have acquired one or more at some point?

Don

Nope.

Bob,

Thanks for your response.  I was thinking that but could not find anything about that car.  Too bad that Atlas is going down the fantasy road.

Norm

It really does not affect the market and helps them to get a run produced of cars that others may want, if they had to choose any rd name to get additional reservations PRR is always a safe choice remember the biggest part of their production runs are 3 rail where this is a non issue. JMO

hibar posted:

...biggest part of their production runs are 3 rail where this is a non issue. JMO

Wow, you 2-railers love getting the digs in.  That is like saying all snakes are poisonous. You know this is the 3RS forum?

I know I will not be buying any "PRR Wagontops".

No dig intended just the reality of the model train business.

The people at Atlas can have the factory in China produce the Wagontop box cars in the Chessie System scheme.

Anderw

They could make the Wagontop box cars in the DT&I scheme and the Seaboard scheme since both railroads had similar box cars.

Andrew

I believe these were Weavers. All or most B&O schemes on this limited unique car has already been purchased by most during the initial offerings. I think demand would be low these days but if the price is less than the original 65 bucks, it might appeal to the remaining B&O hold out fans.

Not a very good business investment or move.

CAPPilot posted:

The PRR did not have "wagontop" boxcars.  They did have round roof boxcars, which were of a different design.  PRR's round roof cars were flat roof boxcars where the roof was replaced with a rounded one for more internal volume, but still have clearance for PRR's low tunnels. 

I believe the B&O's wagontop cars were specifically built that way to limit water leakage at the roof line.  I don't have either type of car, so it would be interesting if someone posted a picture of the two together to see the difference. 

Thats correct about the design of B&O wagon top boxcars ROn. It's a neat car and I own one of Weaver's B&O wagon top boxcars. Picked it up at a train show for a great price.

Are these the B&O cars being discussed:

If so, PLEASE don't include Seaboard Air Line's "Turtleback" (round-roof) boxcars:

The only similarity is...they are both boxcars.

What railroad names can they add to these Wagontop box cars?

They can come up with other Baltimore & Ohio color and graphics.

There are several Chessie System color and graphic size variations.

Perhaps the CSX paint scheme can be put on them.

Andrew

None -

Unique and built by the B&O. A car like this is geared after the more serious and historical modeler. Fantasy schemes would not sell well especially at the high price range these cars would have to be sold at. Atlas is probably betting on the 2r market support vs. 3r for sales.

 N-40 B&O Wagon Top Hopper

It's like Lionel doing an Alaska RR I-12 caboose.

It would be a bit funny to see the [CSX] How tomorrow moves. graphics on the side of these box cars.

Andrew

Here's Weaver's original ad:

B&O also had cabooses and covered hoppers in the wagon top style, I don't think a covered hopper in this style has been done yet.  Ed Bommer would know but he no longer posts here

Norm posted:

Bob,

Thanks for your response.  I was thinking that but could not find anything about that car.  Too bad that Atlas is going down the fantasy road.

Norm

I agree.  That is very unfortunate.  I didn't like it when MTH started sullying the Premier line, either.  That stuff is OK for the lower-end lines, but when you have to ask yourself if something actually existed in the premium product line...

The vendor thinks it boosts sales (and it might), but some of us start doubting the accuracy of the whole product line.  And it creates a lot of nagging doubt (and extra research) for those of us who want to model specific roadnames, cars and locomotives, and timeframes. 

George

Back in the Jim Weaver days at Atlas, no fantasy paint schemes were produced in the Master line.  Today, Atlas is doing much like the others and painting versions that will sell (witness the Lionel Daylight scheme cab-forwards outselling the prototypical paint schemes).  You can't really blame them for trying to maximize income in today's shrinking market.  Atlas does offer a disclaimer on the Pennsy version of the wagon top: "++ Alternate history paint scheme."

"B&O also had cabooses and covered hoppers in the wagon top style, I don't think a covered hopper in this style has been done yet."

3rd Rail did the wagon top covered hopper in brass 3R and 2R but no plastic versions have been produced to date.

I supplied Ed Bommer with detailed photos during the Weaver R&D stage for this model. Two remaining M-53’s are at the museum in Parish Fl.

Additional photos are on my ODDS N ENDS album link here - https://steves3roscale.shutter...m/pictures/5093#5067

Thanks for posting the Weaver ad. It should clear up any misperception for the uninformed sellers and buyers.

Bob posted:

Back in the Jim Weaver days at Atlas, no fantasy paint schemes were produced in the Master line.  Today, Atlas is doing much like the others and painting versions that will sell (witness the Lionel Daylight scheme cab-forwards outselling the prototypical paint schemes).  You can't really blame them for trying to maximize income in today's shrinking market.  Atlas does offer a disclaimer on the Pennsy version of the wagon top: "++ Alternate history paint scheme."

"B&O also had cabooses and covered hoppers in the wagon top style, I don't think a covered hopper in this style has been done yet."

3rd Rail did the wagon top covered hopper in brass 3R and 2R but no plastic versions have been produced to date.

Totally agree as long as this allows production of new models for the MFGs its up to the modeler/hobbyist to decide what to buy and it also allows the collectors more buying options. JMO

This model should be a winner for Atlas. They sold out very quickly when when Weaver introduced them. I hardly ever see them for sale on the used market.

Jeff

catnap posted:

It's like Lionel doing an Alaska RR I-12 caboose.

Or, maybe, this release of several years ago??.....

After all, the Alaska Railroad has some 1:1 credibility.

KD

Since this is a November 2016 announcement reservations will determine what paint schemes get produced, if the PRR scheme is not reserved enough another of the B & O schemes may replace it, just saying.

 

 

 Too bad that Atlas is going down the fantasy road.

That is very unfortunate.  I didn't like it when MTH started sullying the Premier line, either.  That stuff is OK for the lower-end lines, but when you have to ask yourself if something actually existed in the premium product line...

The vendor thinks it boosts sales (and it might), but some of us start doubting the accuracy of the whole product line.  And it creates a lot of nagging doubt (and extra research) for those of us who want to model specific roadnames, cars and locomotives, and timeframes. 

Silly me ....and here all along I thought getting into the O3R realm (and out of the stifling stigmas in HO) would allow me to 'fantasize' more,  pick nits less. 

Just for kicks I picked up the last two MTH catalogs from the coffee table in the living room...went to the Premier freight cars section.   Oh dear.   I ran out of fingers and toes counting the number of 'fantasy' paint schemes on car bodies made from a common molding die...on trucks that are improbable for that car/railroad/service...having couplers that include Viagra as part of the casting composition...etc., etc., etc..  Ditto the Premier locomotives section, perhaps to a lesser degree.  Premier passenger cars' fidelity to prototype?.......good grief, Charlie Brown!

MTH, Lionel,  and (in order to compete and reach a broader portion of a declining/aging market) Atlas....are all part of the Toy Train Hobby.  You're the CEO/CFO....what would you do with a molding die sitting idle, begging for further amortization (thereby keeping product retail prices acceptable)?  Look for some marketability, would be my guess.  More car numbers of the same road/paint scheme(s) that hang on to fidelity to prototype but for a geographically limited buying segment?    Sure, give your 1:1 prototype fans their due....maybe a periodic re-run with a couple or few more new car numbers.   But forget the rest of the (a.k.a. majority) O3R market and their plethora of paint passions and preferences?  Atlas management bought the Weaver wagon-top tooling expecting to ONLY make Beano-painted product in the future?  Seriously?

Now, there are some manufacturers that I would expect to adhere to the fidelity-only mantra.  Sunset 3rd Rail would be one of them.  There is a difference.

But, everyone is entitled to their opinion and expression thereof.  And that's the way it should be...for allofus....IMHO, of course.

KD

It would be more agonizing to have a box car with half the graphics out of proportion and the fonts wrong, than to have a completely different railroad scheme.

If you are paying $70 for a box car that was supposed to have the graphics match the road name listed, but they are distorted and different fonts from what was used on the real cars, that would be frustrating.

A completely different railroad name with accurate graphics for a similar, but not identical box car would be less irritating if they followed the actual railroad designations and graphic styles.

Andrew

This might be the start of something new for Atlas O's Masterline.  They used to only do fantasy scheme's for custom runs.  They did try to offer a 33,000 gal tank car in PRR markings but withdrew it after people complained.

Jan

Saw what was the order and time frame for graphics for these cars? Looking at weaver original flyer above is that the order? If so anybody know the time frame for each or did they overlap?

Thanks

Showing my age, I can remember seeing these cars on the B&O when I was a youngster.

In the mid 1990's, I visited the Railroad Museum at Altoona, and parked behind the Tuscan GG1 was a boxcar with a rounded top. I don't remember anything except the GG1. The door was open, so I climbed in sat in the motorman's chair and pretended.  (At that time I was qualified to run 10-50 ton trolley motors) Ah the days of yore.

Are the B&O cars available from Atlas? Does anyone know the item number?

That is like saying all snakes are poisonous.

In Australia they are!

Well....maybe a couple aren't.

Roo.

Blue Streak posted:

Saw what was the order and time frame for graphics for these cars? Looking at weaver original flyer above is that the order? If so anybody know the time frame for each or did they overlap?

Thanks

Don't know where I found this but this may be the answer:

Ed Bommer may have sent it to me or I found it on the B&O Historical Society website.

HA!  I found where I got the diagram:

https://ogrforum.com/t...oof-wagon-top-boxcar

My comment about the MTH RailKing cars being a M-53 model were wrong in the link above, glad I never finished them (but now I don't know what to do with them?!?!?!).

Bob,

Thank you for the diagram.  I'm always looking for interchange cars, but this one had many different paint schemes and I was not sure which ones fit my very late 40s era.  Looks like the "post war 13 Great States" fits the bill, plus maybe the "early" version since it usually took a few years to complete a repaint effort.