New Lionel J3a Hudson shudder

Larry,

I realize that you are busy and this video was done in a hurry but there is too much camera motion for me to see the shudder.

I haven't been able to run mine yet, possibly tomorrow.

In all honesty, it looks like the tender drawbar is vibrating up and down, not the loco side of things. I watched it a couple of times. Check that front tender truck, wheels, axles and so forth. Spin them by hand and look for a wobble.

The loco looks great - that is, what I could see. That reduced tender/cab gap is really better than on my TMCC-era J3's.

=====

"and don't need the, "If you would just use the search..." response." 

Amen, especially since the InterWebs seem full of "Searches" that seem to return everything - even when you are specific enough to not need "advanced search".

The PT tender has the kinematic drawbar. The centering spring can bounce a bit if there's no load behind the tender. 

Dave Olson posted:

The PT tender has the kinematic drawbar. The centering spring can bounce a bit if there's no load behind the tender. 

Ah-ha! Good to know. 

Something else I discovered trying to connect my 5452 together just a short while ago. The drawbar angled end is a real tight fit into the tender slot. I took me a while to get it to seat right and go all the way in. For a while it was pushing down on the engine drawbar. Maybe this could be some of the issue. I can't run any of them yet - just a thought.

Greg, am interested in how yours runs; can you let us know? 

Dave Olson posted:

The PT tender has the kinematic drawbar. The centering spring can bounce a bit if there's no load behind the tender. 

Dave, have you any idea what's going on with theses engines? Mine wobbles on test rollers and you can feel a vibration if you put your hand on top of the boiler. It appears the drivers could be out of quarter. I did run it on a short section of track but it appears to shudder and takes 10 volts or so to get it to move.

Somewhere along the line they changed the dimension of the drawbar and tender slot. I noticed that when I tried to couple an engine and tender from two different years. Best just take a file and open the slot in the tender.

Pete

feet posted:

Mine wobbles on test rollers and you can feel a vibration if you put your hand on top of the boiler. 

I have a set of rollers in my office. Every engine I've ever put on them wobbles. It's the rollers. I saw the video posted in another thread. You can see the one roller teetering on the center rail, rocking back and forth, touching one or the other outside rail as the engine moves. 

We use a fixture in production to make sure the drivers are quartered. If some of them were off, the engine(s) would bind and likely not move at all. 

Finally, the RCMC is designed to not move the loco in conventional until track voltage reaches around 10V. It's a set minimum voltage requirement to make sure the features all work appropriately.

I think your engine is fine, you just need to run it on a layout with more than a couple feet of track.

Dave Olson posted:

feet posted:

Mine wobbles on test rollers and you can feel a vibration if you put your hand on top of the boiler. 

I have a set of rollers in my office. Every engine I've ever put on them wobbles. It's the rollers. I saw the video posted in another thread. You can see the one roller teetering on the center rail, rocking back and forth, touching one or the other outside rail as the engine moves. 

We use a fixture in production to make sure the drivers are quartered. If some of them were off, the engine(s) would bind and likely not move at all. 

Finally, the RCMC is designed to not move the loco in conventional until track voltage reaches around 10V. It's a set minimum voltage requirement to make sure the features all work appropriately.

I think your engine is fine, you just need to run it on a layout with more than a couple feet of track.

Thanks Dave. That answered my questions and I appreciate your quick response.

I put a Pennsy M1a tender behind it and it didn't vibrate like it did with its own tender.  I think it's staying with me and not making a trip to NC.

Thanks so much, Dave and everyone. 

I am very happy with my J3a #5415. It runs smooth. Finish and lettering are nice. Whistles steam is very noticeable. The only issue I had, as Blue Streak noted, the drawbar had to be aligned perfectly the first time. The close spacing between the locomotive and tender looks good

Dave Olson posted:

feet posted:

Mine wobbles on test rollers and you can feel a vibration if you put your hand on top of the boiler. 

I have a set of rollers in my office. Every engine I've ever put on them wobbles. It's the rollers. I saw the video posted in another thread. You can see the one roller teetering on the center rail, rocking back and forth, touching one or the other outside rail as the engine moves. 

We use a fixture in production to make sure the drivers are quartered. If some of them were off, the engine(s) would bind and likely not move at all. 

Finally, the RCMC is designed to not move the loco in conventional until track voltage reaches around 10V. It's a set minimum voltage requirement to make sure the features all work appropriately.

I think your engine is fine, you just need to run it on a layout with more than a couple feet of track.

That's a very reassuring thing to hear Dave, thank you. When I get mine up and running on a full layout(whenever that happens), I'm going to have a blast. I won't overfill the tender's smoke fluid like Ryan did on the VL Niagara at York in 2017, lol. That was still the funniest thing with him to date. All joking aside, thanks for putting us at ease as always.

@Dave Olson quick question... does this batch of Legacy Hudsons have back-drivable gears?  i.e., can the wheels turn the motor?  (I wish Lionel would list that as a feature on the box, it's a good thing!!)  Thanks!

 @Dave Olson  in the other video, the engine mechanism was making a clicking noise as it increased speed in forward. Reverse running didn't seem to have the noise. Can you comment on that for us? 

Larry Mullen posted:

I put a Pennsy M1a tender behind it and it didn't vibrate like it did with its own tender.  I think it's staying with me and not making a trip to NC.

Thanks so much, Dave and everyone. 

Hmmm, this is significant; when my Milwaukee S3 and Polar Express locomotives arrived in the summer of 2018, I had to adjust the wheels on the tenders - on one, an axle was not turning; on the other some were binding.

Well,

I should be receiving my 5413 from Muffin  pretty soon. Thanks for bringing this Issue to our attention.

Richard

RickM46 posted:

Greg, am interested in how yours runs; can you let us know? 

@RickM46

Today I setup an O72 loop of Fastrack with two 30" sections on each side to test my 5416 Hudson engine.  Since I don't have a Legacy 990 setup I tested the engine using the Bluetooth App on my iPad.  I did several slow speed startups in both forward and reverse directions on the long straight sections.   I must be very lucky since I can see no problems while moving in either direction.  I then ran the engine around the loop a few times varying the speed setting.  The engine appears to be mechanically sound at this point.

I am extremely relieved especially since the engine had been roughly treated during shipment from Pat's Trains.  There was a hole punched through both the shipper and the orange engine box but fortunately the puncture was where the styrofoam narrows to allow easier removal from the box.

I am having an issue with the engine disconnecting from the App, the App needs updating to recognize the engine and display number 5416.  I deleted and reinstalled the App just in case I had an old version.  Problem might be my rather dated iPad.

Greg; thanks a bunch for the update; looks like we may have a good chance of getting one without issues.  Can you tell us who the carrier was?

I looked a few times but didn't see it . What should we focus on?

ok I will look at it again.

is it possible there is a bump in the track that might give these results?

ok I asked my missus to watch it and she saw the bell moving at the video time spots you mentioned. . We thought the engines motion was pretty smooth. If fact she thought there was not anything wrong with the engine other than the Bell motion. 

so does a problem with the drive cause the shuddr ie bell motion? Something that would require a return for repair? 

Moving bell. Nice feature. Vision Line stuff.   

RickO posted:

LIRR Steamer posted:

ok I asked my missus to watch it and she saw the bell moving at the video time spots you mentioned. . We thought the engines motion was pretty smooth. 

so does a problem with the drive cause the shuddr ie bell motion? Something that would require a return for repair? 

Watch the videos posted by member SLQ32 on pages 4 and 6 of this thread. You can see the bell shaking on the track  in the second video on page 4 :

https://ogrforum.com/...yc-j3a-hudson?page=4  

On page 6 you can hear what sounds like gear noise while its going forward on rollers. Make sure you turn your volume up:

 https://ogrforum.com/...yc-j3a-hudson?page=6

I saw the video from SLG32. That clicking noise is sign of something that needs addressed maybe by Lionel. I had a Lionel 1st edition C&O Allegheny that made such a noise, It turned out to be a wiring harness for the motor that was rubbing on the flywheel and repositioning solved that problem.

In the Mr Muffins video eferenced in this thread, I did not hear any clucking noise similar to that experienced by SLQ32 on the rollers. 

Its puzzling what might be going on here with these engines.

Thanks for posting the links to the additional videos. I plan to review them to see if I can make anything out about these. I have a catalogued engine coming so that experience will be additional input. 

Anyone know if the Niagara had similar behavior? I remember Lionel saying that the J# was to be in the same factory that made the Niagara. 

Another thing that I'm going to do with mine (1st is the PSC NYC headlight fixture) is replace the pilot truck wheels with the wheel set on the right.  Still not sure why Lionel doesn't automatically put them on all of their scale engines.  I've changed them out on most of my scale PRR engines and for me, I think they look so much better.

Larry Mullen posted:

Another thing that I'm going to do with mine (1st is the PSC NYC headlight fixture) is replace the pilot truck wheels with the wheel set on the right.  Still not sure why Lionel doesn't automatically put them on all of their scale engines.  I've changed them out on most of my scale PRR engines and for me, I think they look so much better.

 

Larry, what do you use for a reflector in your PSC NYC headlights? I found this really nice doming set at Harbor Freight, that makes very nice reflectors from sheet brass....the doming tool even cuts the bowl right at the rim, leaving very little clean up to do.....I’d love to learn what you use!...thanks!.....Pat

The beauty of this forum: thanks to Alex M's efforts and videos at https://ogrforum.com/...#114474122735864292, we have an explanation and solution to the new Hudson's gear box; definitely sets my expectations and what it will do when mine arrives.

I plan to: spin the wheels of the tender; run the engine a bit straight out of the box to see if it has the shudder; in either case, I will push some RednTacky into the grease port and let it wear in; this will result in the precision to get smooth running.

Just to round off the Hudson, here are Alex's videos:

https://ogrforum.com/...DD4-93AEC6353B18.MOV

https://ogrforum.com/...1DB-FC192294C0D1.MOV

harmonyards posted:

Larry Mullen posted:

Another thing that I'm going to do with mine (1st is the PSC NYC headlight fixture) is replace the pilot truck wheels with the wheel set on the right.  Still not sure why Lionel doesn't automatically put them on all of their scale engines.  I've changed them out on most of my scale PRR engines and for me, I think they look so much better.

 

Larry, what do you use for a reflector in your PSC NYC headlights? I found this really nice doming set at Harbor Freight, that makes very nice reflectors from sheet brass....the doming tool even cuts the bowl right at the rim, leaving very little clean up to do.....I’d love to learn what you use!...thanks!.....Pat

@harmonyards - Nice work!  I used PSC's reflector on my M1b.  @Norton shared a great chrome paint on another thread that I want to look into. What are you using as a headlight lens?  Pete (Norton) shared a way of using bubble wrap for a lens as well, but I haven't gotten my head wrapped around it yet.

Larry Mullen posted:

harmonyards posted:

Larry Mullen posted:

Another thing that I'm going to do with mine (1st is the PSC NYC headlight fixture) is replace the pilot truck wheels with the wheel set on the right.  Still not sure why Lionel doesn't automatically put them on all of their scale engines.  I've changed them out on most of my scale PRR engines and for me, I think they look so much better.

 

Larry, what do you use for a reflector in your PSC NYC headlights? I found this really nice doming set at Harbor Freight, that makes very nice reflectors from sheet brass....the doming tool even cuts the bowl right at the rim, leaving very little clean up to do.....I’d love to learn what you use!...thanks!.....Pat

@harmonyards - Nice work!  I used PSC's reflector on my M1b.  @Norton shared a great chrome paint on another thread that I want to look into. What are you using as a headlight lens?  Pete (Norton) shared a way of using bubble wrap for a lens as well, but I haven't gotten my head wrapped around it yet.

Larry, I think I turned Pete onto the Molotov chrome paint pen...or it might have been the other way around...either way, that paint pen is the bee’s knees....you can get it at Hobby Lobby....

as far as lenses are concerned, I was at Wally World one day, and I saw this stock lady with a big ol’ angry hole punch, an I seen the clear plastic dots landing on her little cart.....so looked at them and asked her if I could have some for S&G’s.....she said sure....so I grabbed up a pretty big handful.....low and behold, they drop right in place on the PSC NYC headlight....lucky huh??....

I'll buy 2 if you have any left!

I knew about Molotow but Pat told me how to use it for best effect. You have let it puddle, not use the pen like a marker and just paint the surface.

The headight on my 5444 was a PSC uncored light. I just had to drill a hole for the bulb, the reflector is solid brass part of the casting. If you get the cored lights (recomended) as Pat shows in his pic then you will need to add the reflector. The reason a cored light is better is you don't have to remove any metal to put the number boards in the sides of the headlight. That can be pretty time consuming.

Larry, as for making lenes you are just using the drill bit to make a hole punch.

You can't always be as lucky as Pat and find lenses on the floor of any store you walk into. Sheeesh.

Pete

Norton posted:

I knew about Molotow but Pat told me how to use it for best effect. You have let it puddle, not use the pen like a marker and just paint the surface.

The headight on my 5444 was a PSC uncored light. I just had to drill a hole for the bulb, the reflector is solid brass part of the casting. If you get the cored lights (recomended) as Pat shows in his pic then you will need to add the reflector. The reason a cored light is better is you don't have to remove any metal to put the number boards in the sides of the headlight. That can be pretty time consuming.

Larry, as for making lenes you are just using the drill bit to make a hole punch.

You can't always be as lucky as Pat and find lenses on the floor of any store you walk into. Sheeesh.

 

Pete

It’s called trains on the brains..😁.....if I’m forced to go to somewhere at gunpoint, I just start planning the next build in my mind, always scanning for whatever, whenever could possibly be useful.....0 cost is always helpful.... before I know it, I’m back home again....I just pray for my wife’s sake I don’t look like one of those babbling idiots having an argument with myself....I’ve fired myself in my own mind at least twice....but I always take myself back.......we’re the only ones that can get anything done around the railroad shop..........Pat

My Hudson J3A 5452 Locomotive showed up today from Train World; ordered Friday night - showed up today Wednesday; asked Train World to double box it with packing and they did; kudos to TW, they did an excellent job packing it - see pics.  The TW shipper and Lionel shipper arrived from UPS with no damage.

No blemishes; all functions work;  I like the marker lights and the black boiler front.  At slow speed, there is no clicking or vibration you can feel with your hand; the bell does move infinitesimally; there is a slight wobble as noted by Norm Charbonneau in his review of his 5418.  Got that same wobble in my Milwaukee S3 - still a good runner. The whistle smoke unit fires up immediately and is profuse; the stack takes a few minutes and then catches up; the tender also smokes like crazy after a short minute; the drawbar fit easily into the tenders.   Later tonight, I will give it a lube job - RednTacky and Remington gun oil - doesn't get any better than that!

As a kid at night when all is quiet, I could hear locomotives go by sounding their train whistles; finally found the one I've been hearing in my head since then - the Hudson's.  Happy Camper!!

As some of you have seen my video I have found this unacceptable at this price point. Some will “run in” However it is my opinion that the gearbox was not properly manufactured. The “run in” to remove material on the bronze gear so it will properly mesh with the steel worm gear is unacceptable for me. That bronze is winding up as fine chips mixed with the grease. Unless i planned on running it in until it smooths out then completely clean and re lube it. Not worth it for me. After 2 weeks of no response from Lionel customer service the engine was returned. 

At the same time i purchased this Lionel I purchased (for 100 less) a new MTH pace maker set with 5 flatcars and 10 piggy back trailers with caboose. The MTH Hudson runs at 1mph like a Rolex compared to the Lionel. No smoking whistle but OMG the smoke out of the stack will quickly fill the room especially under labor. 

I have many other Lionel steam engines that run great. This one was a complete disappointment for me. 

 I still may take a chance with the 5413. Still debating it.