Skip to main content

Well, I can't totally get behind that advice.   If you've ever had to take the Lionel puzzle trucks apart to get them off, you'll realize how much easier that the Liondrive trucks make the job!

I thought you knew….Lionel wants to help keep your mind active with the mystery truck puzzles……lmao



Homer Simpson GiF used by permission of 20th Century Fox through the Gipfy App.

Craig

PennCentralShops

Attachments

Images (1)
  • IMG_0022
@harmonyards posted:

That would be a Royal PITA Craig, …..if Rod gets good fitment results from his plastic part, and it don’t carry on & make noise, then I’d opt for printing it in metal,…..then the loctite shaft retainer will do it’s job!…..I’ve had some parts really loose fitting that the loctite saved the day!……I couldn’t budge them with a jack hammer & a grenade…😉



Pat

Pat can I send you my .stl file for the spiders so you can explore getting them made of metal, perhaps brass?

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

Pat can I send you my .stl file for the spiders so you can explore getting them made of metal, perhaps brass?

Rod

Rod, if you have a good .STL file for the spider, I'd like to get a copy.  I bit the bullet and have a 3D printer coming the Creality K1C.  I could try printing them in carbon fiber filament, one of the tricks the printer claims to be able to do.

Attachments

Images (1)
  • mceclip0

Rod, if you have a good .STL file for the spider, I'd like to get a copy.  I bit the bullet and have a 3D printer coming the Creality K1C.  I could try printing them in carbon fiber filament, one of the tricks the printer claims to be able to do.

Carbon Fiber would not be a good choice it's very abrasive for one and brittle. PC or Nylon would be a much better choice.

Rod, if you have a good .STL file for the spider, I'd like to get a copy.  I bit the bullet and have a 3D printer coming the Creality K1C.  I could try printing them in carbon fiber filament, one of the tricks the printer claims to be able to do.



Welcome to the crazy world of 3D printing grj; I figured you would jump in one day!

Below posted is my current .stl file for these spiders, for anyone to have a go at. It should load into any slicer software without issue.

Rod

Attachments

Well, I did see that you could get Kevlar filament, but it costs around $600/kg, so I don't think I'll be using that anytime soon.  I read up on Nylon printing, but until I figure out venting, I suspect I may not want to do that.

I like the idea of printing them in metal since you could then use the proper retaining compound to really secure them to the shaft.

Well, I did see that you could get Kevlar filament, but it costs around $600/kg, so I don't think I'll be using that anytime soon.  I read up on Nylon printing, but until I figure out venting, I suspect I may not want to do that.

I like the idea of printing them in metal since you could then use the proper retaining compound to really secure them to the shaft.

You do not need venting necessarily there are several carbon filters you can print that will do the job. Nevermore is the one I use for Nylon, ABS and ASA. Nevermore Github it should capture the bad stuff. Make sure to use the right carbon it there are some with acids that reak havoc KB3D Fabreeko and WEST3D are my sources.

Last edited by Shawn_Chronister

I forgot to mention earlier that the printed resin spiders seem to be working just fine in the F-7 A-A set. I wound up just press fitting them onto the motor shafts because I was pretty sure that trying to mix and apply epoxy glue to these small parts would create a big mess, with epoxy everywhere except where it was needed. Checking with a magnifying glass there was no evidence of resin cracking, so all is well.

They have not had more than an hour or so of running thus far, but they seem to be working as intended. I still think that printed brass spiders will ultimately be the best fix however.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

Dennis that's a pretty smooth circle! You're thinking using that for the 2.3mm diam hole in the spider are you? I actually think a few sides might be better for the hole to provide a little roughness for better grip on the small splines on the motor shafts, what do you think?

Rod

I think the idea is the splines cut into the plastic and give you a more secure fit.

Rod,

I think we test them and see what happens!  My Santa Fe F3 has a split spider... it's been on my to-do list for about 3 months ...and, now looks like it will get some attention!  Thanks to you!

Yah I agree. I would love to see how they work made of nylon; that would wear way better than resin against the metal crown coupler I suspect. When are you printing them up? BTW, what era are your Santa Fe F3's?

The F3 is the  6-34573 from 2010.

Your stl printed just fine with PETG at 0.1mm layer height... and, 1 minute to print.

I just ordered the Nylon, we will see how that goes as I've not used it before... and, then of course I have to sit down and actually do the install.  So, maybe 4-5 days.

Attachments

Images (1)
  • mceclip0
Last edited by Dennis-LaRock

you can't get Delrin can you?

Polyoxymethylene - Wikipedia

Delrin® Outperforms - Delrin

Leading companies across the globe specify Delrin® acetal homopolymer for high-load mechanical applications such as gears, safety restraints, door systems, conveyor belts, healthcare delivery devices, and other demanding products and parts. Delrin® acetal homopolymer (Polyoxymethylene POM) is the ideal material in parts designed to replace metal. It combines low-friction and high-wear resistance with the high strength and stiffness such applications require. It provides a wide operating temperature range (-40 °C to 90 °C) and good colorability. Delrin® also mates well with metals and other polymers and offers excellent dimensional stability in high precision molding.

Joe, John also mentioned Delrin... so;

Dennis... the Guinea Pig!   200grams ordered $10.95... at 0.07 grams per spider, should keep us in spiders!  Look what Rod hath wrought!  Hope it works

Gizmo Dorks Acetal Delrin Filament for 3D Printers 1.75mm 200g, Black

It'll be interesting to see how the Delrin works out.  One thing about Delrin, it doesn't take to glue at all, so the splines and the interference fit is all important.  If you search on Delrin glue, most people say it doesn't exist.

I'd make sure the shaft is well knurled and press it on.

The F3 is the  6-34573 from 2010.

Your stl printed just fine with PETG at 0.1mm layer height... and, 1 minute to print.

I just ordered the Nylon, we will see how that goes as I've not used it before... and, then of course I have to sit down and actually do the install.  So, maybe 4-5 days.



Is that tiny darkish spec in the middle of the platen the spider?? Good to hear it printed well. I suspect that to fit it to the motor shaft you are going to have to ream out the center hole somewhat. A 2.3 bit in a pin vise seems to work well. I just happened to have that exact size bit in a set of metric drill bits bought a while ago. You could probably find a bit close enough in a number bit drill set too; like a #43 or #42. It will be interesting to hear how it fits up for you. BTW, you probably know this, but you can easily remove the truck from these engines without any need to take it all apart. Simply turn the truck about 110 degrees CCW. Then hold the engine right side up and lower the truck away. There is a 3 pin plug to easily disconnect the truck from the engine.

Your SF F3's are in the same era as my CP F3's; they are 6-34582. Do you run the F3's tail to tail? If so you likely have found that both headlights are on in forward and off in reverse. And that you need to hit the F uncoupler to open the coupler on the rear dummy unit. And that the backup light is lit on the rear dummy unit when both are moving forward. It's like Lionel wired them up so as to run both nose forward. But if you run them this way then the electro-coupler on the rear dummy unit is on the front connected to the front unit; which makes no sense at all.

I made a couple of minor plug n' play wiring changes on the dummy unit so it now plays well with the front powered unit. The rear coupler now works when you press the R button, the rear headlight is on in reverse, off in forward, and rear marker leds are red when in forward, and the backup light is off when it should be. Cab lights are off in motion and on when stopped. Way more sensible. I can show you exactly how to make the necessary changes if you like. Pretty simple, no wiring changes and no soldering. No changes to any OEM parts at all.

Rod

Last edited by Rod Stewart

If you have a smooth motor shaft (you could score it, I suppose) wouldn't Rod's 24 sided Bore work with an adhesive to fill the gaps when usiing Nylon or Delrin?

Conventional wisdom is that you can’t glue nylon, including nylon 6, nylon 66, nylon 6/6-6, nylon 6/9, nylon 6/10, nylon 6/12, nylon 11, nylon 12, Zytel® or any type of nylon.  With the use of an adhesion promoter and a CA you can get a modest superficial glue joint with some nylons.

HOLY CANNOLI ROD!!!   I haven't run it in a bit... I'll have to check all conditions you sited and report back.  It is sitting in the IHC engine shed on the layout though and the shed has been LED'd visa via the Rod Stewart write-up!

Oh yeah,  Anyone care for a Plate of Spiders?

@Sams Trains ……i don’t know how he’s not seeing this thread, …..he’s having a coupling issue with an ES44, …..same coupling…….hopefully Dennis could spare a gazzillion? 😂😂😂

Pat

My curiosity got the best of me; I just pulled a truck off the F3 to inspect the resin spider, now that it has a couple of hours use on it.

1

Close up with a magnifying glass revealed no wear marks at all, nothing broken and nothing split! Plus it is in the same spot flush with the end of the shaft, so it does not seem to have moved at all. Very encouraging news all in all. So it's back on the layout hauling passenger cars around. Yay!

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 1

Add Reply

Post
This forum is sponsored by Lionel, LLC

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Ste 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×