Is this the best challenger O gauge locomotive ever produced by any manufacturer? It seems like it has the most impressive feature list I have ever seen. Thoughts?
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@th55 posted:Is this the best challenger O gauge locomotive ever produced by any manufacturer?
No, because if one includes the 2-Rail SCALE importers, such as Kohs, Sunset/3-rd Rail, Max Gray, etc. then Lionel product doesn't come close.
It seems like it has the most impressive feature list I have ever seen.
Do you mean detail features or operational/electronics features.
Thoughts?
Ryan and Dave showed one off the pre production sample engines yesterday,link posted above.
Doug
It certainly will have the most goofy cab chatter and the most mineral oil vapor being blown out of the most holes of any challenger O gauge locomotive ever produced by any manufacturer. If that stuff defines "best" for you, then it is.
If accurate scale details define "best", then some previous models were better than this Lionel.
@Bob posted:It certainly will have the most goofy cab chatter and the most mineral oil vapor being blown out of the most holes of any challenger O gauge locomotive ever produced by any manufacturer. If that stuff defines "best" for you, then it is.
If accurate scale details define "best", then some previous models were better than this Lionel.
Actually, it appears to only have main smoke and whistle smoke. They didn't mention any other smoke features. So, several other previous engines still hold the mineral oil blowing crown. 
Other engines do spout from more orifices, but the question was limited to models of a "challenger O gauge locomotive."
I wish they would focus less on smoke features and more on separately applied details in general for their scale offerings.
@Bob posted:Other engines do spout from more orifices, but the question was limited to models of a "challenger O gauge locomotive."
Well, the Lionel Vision Line Challenger, both from around 2010 and the recent release, both had main stack, whistle steam, dynamo, and injector steam, so we're indeed talking about an O-gauge model with more smoke features. I can post a video of mine if you like. 
I wouldn't call it the best challenger ever made in O, but it does seem like a nice offering.
I cry uncle! No video required. 
@th55, I am not an authority on Real Steam locomotives like Hot Water or possibly Bob Bartizek, however I personally think this will be One “super fun” to run steamer with lots of great features. Koh’s, (really expensive) Sunset third rail, Max Gray, may be the berries for 2 rail scale purist, 2 rail scales finest, but, in my humble thinking, they may be Eye Candy to the scale lovers, but they have few operating features, and this all new Lionel Challenger will be an operators field day. I love Lionel’s legacy system and even though the 2 rail scale folks have locomotives with fine detailing, lots of add on details that make it really hard to touch without breaking, I would choose Lionel VisionLine, or their brass hybrids any day. I like the toys, with the high tech goodies, and that’s why I like Lionel. My friends Farmerjohn, Dr. Jack, and several others will be getting this new Challenger. This is a really good question and I hope someone from Lionel will chime in, I think you’ll love this Challenger. Happy Railroading Everyone
Did you see the latest video from Ryan and Dave of Lionel? This is a completely different Challenger. I am glad I preordered one once seeing the Lionel video.
I did see the video. I also saw a video on the 2011 vision line Challenger. I like the Visionline one better.
@leapinlarry posted:1. Koh’s, (really expensive) Sunset third rail, Max Gray, may be the berries for 2 rail scale purist, 2 rail scales finest, but, in my humble thinking, they may be Eye Candy to the scale lovers, but they have few operating features, and this all new Lionel Challenger will be an operators field day.
2. I love Lionel’s legacy system and even though the 2 rail scale folks have locomotives with fine detailing, lots of add on details that make it really hard to touch without breaking, I would choose Lionel VisionLine, or their brass hybrids any day.
3. I like the toys, with the high tech goodies, and that’s why I like Lionel.
1. Okay, fair enough. Maybe to some, just running well with minimal break downs is a good enough "operating feature".
2. "... which make it really hard to touch without breaking..." This is a myth. A well built brass engine is just as durable as a newer cast/ hybrid. Look at Carey Williams' posts of models built in the late 1930s through the '50s.
3. That's fine, but for your sake let's hope those "high tech goodies" don't prove to be problematic; seems like there's a lot of posts on this forum regarding those very things...and folks like "Gunrunner John" seem to stay pretty busy doing repairs/ upgrades to those "high tech" circuits.
Mark in Oregon
@Strummer posted:2. "... which make it really hard to touch without breaking..." This is a myth. A well built brass engine is just as durable as a newer cast/ hybrid. Look at Carey Williams' posts of models built in the late 1930s through the '50s.
The key words being "well built". I have had many brass steamers through for upgrades, and a significant number of them have had deteriorating solder joints with trim pieces and more falling off. The solder has actually simply started to turn to dust. This is across a number of common brands, Weaver, 3rd Rail, Williams at least. The higher level of detail on some higher end models are certainly more fragile than a diecast steamer.
Fair enough, John.
Who knows, maybe I've been just lucky. 🙂
Mark in Oregon
@Strummerr, Mark in Oregon, hi train enthusiast, thank you for chiming in, I apologize if my comments on actual scale brass locomotives sounded condescending, but I’ve never seen a Koh’s locomotive run on any of my friends layouts, and I’m going back to the days I visited Louis Ertz, (a true two rail scale purist with an amazing layout) in Memphis, Tennessee. He had over 150 plus brass locomotives on his shelves and said they had so many finely made add on pieces they were fragile. The brass locomotives he ran had no sounds as in the 80’s early 90’s, sounds were not built into these beautiful masterpieces. Sunset Third Rail makes wonderful products and their attention to Quality Control is probably the best in the industry, however their sound systems are ok but not like Lionel’s Railsounds. I admire the two rail scale builders and operators, I was just saying for the dollars spent on the Lionel, MTH, the technology is amazing. For years we ran trains in conventional control, on and off and on and off with no real way to have 2 or more trains on the same track as we do today. So command control has made the hobby so much more fun and our friends can run trains with us with their remotes. When friends come to my home, they run their trains with their remotes and we have a lot of fun.
You mentioned the word “problematic”, that’s something we all have to contend with, and most of the time there are folks that can repair our locomotives with issues. Lionel does allow us to return warranty items to them via an RA and free postage paid both ways. Parts are always a key issue to the repairs. Hopefully, we won’t have to many issues that can’t be resolved.
My opinion on the new Lionel Challenger is it’s going to be a fantastic model, fun to run, fun to hear running. The older VisionLine challengers are nice, this one will be nicer. It’s simply a fun hobby.Happy Railroading Everyone
I love the smoke features. Part of the realism and the fun! So far the vision line challenger is the winner of smoke from what I have seen so I’d say better than this offering. The smoke brings them to life for me! But that’s great about Lionel offering a variety.
@leapinlarry posted:even though the 2 rail scale folks have locomotives with fine detailing, lots of add on details that make it really hard to touch without breaking, I would choose Lionel VisionLine, or their brass hybrids any day.
The details on Lionel locomotives are just as fragile as brass.
@rplst8 posted:The details on Lionel locomotives are just as fragile as brass.
I'll have to disagree with that assessment, I handle a lot of brass and diecast, and there's a big difference.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'll have to disagree with that assessment, I handle a lot of brass and diecast, and there's a big difference.
The die-cast boilers and main assemblies are strong, I won't argue with you there. However, the details on most of the modern locomotives are often plastic. When they have them, not all Lionel or MTH locomotives are as detailed in the first place, but when they do they are fragile.
At least with brass, things can be bent back into shape pretty easily, or soldered back on.
The other advantage with brass is that when dropped, the brass usually just bends. Die-cast just breaks and there isn't much you can do with it then.
Brass solder joints may corrode but usually can be cleaned up and resoldered. I've done that a few times. Diecast you have to worry about Zinc rot. Since everything is sourced in Asia these days, who's watching the smelter for impurities???? I have a lot of AtlasO hoppers with rotting frames.
Now todays diecast engine have a lot of brass ad on details. My question is, do we need to worry about galvanic corrosion???
But to get on track with the author of the threads intent. The Lionel Brass hybrid Challenger is one neat looking engine. Sorry to say Lionel has priced it out of my range.
It could definitely be a real grand slam, in my opinion. If they can get them assembled well and running well out of the box, Lionel will have huge success with this locomotive. I regret not buying one after seeing that latest video but it's just not in the budget for me this year.
