New Lionel Legacy Union Pacific F7 AA Set - # 2233850

Wow. Nice photos and video. Now THIS is what I’ve been waiting to see.

Thanks, Richie. 👍

Nice.. I am waiting for the LHS to call me about mine.  I got the normal B unit as well as the Superbass B unit for this train

I had ordered this UP Legacy set with the powered F7B in November. But when gunrunnerjohn, the miracle worker, was able to get my 2005 TMCC F3 set running, I cancelled the order and have been enjoying the older set again.

But those new Legacy F7s look terrific.

Richie,  Wonderful looking set and passenger cars! 

Vern, congrats on getting your set up and running!

Richie, the new F units look awesome. Classic.  The iconic ATSF F units were made in Legacy a couple years ago. Now these timeless UP Legacy F units have arrived. Are the NYCs next?

Thank you, Dave. With gunrunnerjohn being able to repair this older set, it saved me upwards of $2,000 from having to purchase the new ABBA Legacy set. But, it WAS a temptation. 😉

That’s some of my issue, too, Vern. I actively lobbied for Legacy ATSF F units and bought the ABBA set when they finally arrived in 2018 for $1500 (including powered B and a super bass B). I have been passively waiting for UP Legacy F units, but the ABBA set is $2150 (street price discounted from $2400 MSRP). That’s a big jump.  (I realize part of the price difference is the 2018 releases included a dummy A, whereas the current releases are powered AA.)

Can you share the Lionel part number for your 5 car passenger set that are attched to your new F7 engines?  Thank You so much.

Larry Brown

@Richie C. - Yes, similar to Larry I also would be interested in learning the make and product number of your 5-car passenger set? Thanks.

If Richie doesn't mind, I'm going to chime in here with that information, since I have 2 of these cars in my UP Yellowstone Special passenger train. These are from Lionel's Union Pacific Overland set of 1984. The are all smooth-sided with twin incandescent bulb lighting. There's a 6-car set of them on eBay right now (Union Pacific 6-Car Passenger Set, #6-9545 through 6-9549, & 6-7210), along with a few that are individually listed.

What a beautiful set!!  Enjoy.

@Rider Sandman posted:

That’s some of my issue, too, Vern. I actively lobbied for Legacy ATSF F units and bought the ABBA set when they finally arrived in 2018 for $1500 (including powered B and a super bass B). I have been passively waiting for UP Legacy F units, but the ABBA set is $2150 (street price discounted from $2400 MSRP). That’s a big jump.  (I realize part of the price difference is the 2018 releases included a dummy A, whereas the current releases are powered AA.)

Rider: I find it interesting that Lionel now thinks that on their new Legacy F7 double A sets, both As have to be powered. I sort of grew up with Union Pacific passenger trains back in the 1950s and early '60s and don't EVER remember seeing a UP train pulled by double A F7s. They always had a B unit or two behind them. UP occasionally used double A E8s, but no double A F3s or F7s.

Lionel's pricing on their new Legacy F7s, IMO, is outrageous. Even if one purchased a UP double A set along with the F7B, powered or not, that's still over $1,500 just for an ABA set. So in the meantime, I'll stick with my older TMCC sets, which were purchased new at a fraction of what Lionel is asking for its F7 sets today. And my TMCC sets are all running fine now. When they start dying, they'll just become shelf queens as I gradually exit the hobby. My days of buying new Lionel ended years ago. 😉

Vern is correct - this what I have (from a previous post dealing with these cars) :

The part numbers I have are 6-9545 - Baggage

                                                          46 - Combo

                                                          47 - Observation

                                                          48 - Placid Bay Pass. Car, and

                                                          49 - Sunset Pass. Car.

Pretty sure these are part of the 1984 Lionel UP Overland Limited Set with a diesel engine set, plus possibly two more 15" aluminum passenger cars. They are all described as "smooth sided."

There is a possibility that 6-7210 (Dining Car); 6-19121 (Vista Dome); and/or 6-19152 (Duplex Roomette Car) may have come with the set, but I can't confirm and it looks like some were made in 1989.

I believe that 6-8481 and 6-8480 were the individual engines (powered, dummy and B unit), but I don't have a set number.

Please note - there is a slight color variation in the yellow between the new engines and the old passenger set. The yellow in the new engines is a slightly darker yellow than on the passenger cars. Not enough to bother me and probably no one else would notice, but something forumites should be aware of.

Right on and good point, Richie. The older cars are really more of a mustard yellow, when the correct Union Pacific color was Armour yellow. Also, Lionel has NEVER got the shade of gray right. UP's is Harbor Misty Gray, a lighter gray, where Lionel's gray has always been a shade or two darker.

@Richie C. - Just for clarification, the 6-7210 dining car was released in 1984; whereas the 19121 vista dome and 19152 duplex roomette cars weren't released until 1992 and 1996 respectively.

As for the engines, the 'AA' units were numbered 8480 and 8482, while the 'B' unit was 8481.  Sometimes in the past Lionel left a product number out between the 'AA' units to indicate to prospective purchasers that a matching 'B' unit would also be forthcoming.

A beautiful set!

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Lionel's pricing on their new Legacy F7s, IMO, is outrageous. Even if one purchased a UP double A set along with the F7B, powered or not, that's still over $1,500 just for an ABA set. So in the meantime, I'll stick with my older TMCC sets, which were purchased new at a fraction of what Lionel is asking for its F7 sets today.

Well, you should check the inflation indexes. The no. 24552 scale TMCC F3 set from 3/2005 is now over 17 years old.  Looking at the prices, adjusted for inflation, this set (I also have this set), which has an A-B-A and only one powered A unit, would cost about $1,700.00 today. The matching powered B unit would cost $570.00 in today's dollars. The current F7s are available at $1,180.00 for an A-A with both engines powered, and a powered B unit is available for $540.00.

So in fact, the F-3s from 2005 were not at all a fraction of the price of the new F7s. Really, the F7s are no more expensive in any meaningful way. If you think the pricing on the F7s is outrageous, then you paid an outrageous amount for your F3s as well. 

In addition to the cars from the 1984 Overland Limited Set, Lionel also did an additional set of UP 15" aluminum passenger cars in 2001, the no. 39146 4-car set and the 39194 add-on 2-car set. These cars have detailed interiors and passenger figures inside. The best, however, are the cars that were in the no. 31712 Union Pacific Alco PA anniversary set. There are 7 cars in this set, including a sound diner, all highly detailed with painted interiors and passenger figures, highly detailed sprung metal trucks, and separately applied add-on details, among other things.

@breezinup posted:

Well, you should check the inflation indexes. The no. 24552 scale TMCC F3 set from 3/2005 is now over 17 years old.  Looking at the prices, adjusted for inflation, this set (I also have this set), which has an A-B-A and only one powered A unit, would cost about $1,700.00 today. The matching powered B unit would cost $570.00 in today's dollars. The current F7s are available at $1,180.00 for an A-A with both engines powered, and a powered B unit is available for $540.00.

So in fact, the F-3s from 2005 were not at all a fraction of the price of the new F7s. Really, the F7s are no more expensive in any meaningful way. If you think the pricing on the F7s is outrageous, then you paid an outrageous amount for your F3s as well. 

breezeinup: Uh, no and maybe I should have explained my purchasing situations more clearly. I did not buy my Union Pacific TMCC F3 ABA set when it first came out in 2005. I purchased it 3 years ago on eBay, NIB for $550.00, considerably less than what they went for in 2005. Then a NIB powered F3B about a year later for $160.00, also less than the $299.00 they were going for when first out.

So for a total of $710.00, I was able purchase an ABBA set with an additional powered F3B vs a current F7 ABBA set with a powered F7B for $2,260.00, using your figures above. The actual ABBA set would cost more, because rather than two powered Bs, one would likely be powered and the other, the non-powered Super Base, which costs more than the powered B.

So, for the older TMCC set, I paid less than a third of what the comparable Legacy set costs right now. True, the Legacy ABBA set would have the additional powered A. But who needs six motors? I have a small to medium-sized layout and 4 motors is more than enough to pull my UP passenger train.

Note: (12/15/22) The pricing in Charles Ro's list is evidently erroneous. It's $495 for the Super Base F7B and $540 for the powered B. Not the other way around. So, the powered B is $45 more than the Super Bass. Still outrageous.

@breezinup posted:

In addition to the cars from the 1984 Overland Limited Set, Lionel also did an additional set of UP 15" aluminum passenger cars in 2001, the no. 39146 4-car set and the 39194 add-on 2-car set. These cars have detailed interiors and passenger figures inside. The best, however, are the cars that were in the no. 31712 Union Pacific Alco PA anniversary set. There are 7 cars in this set, including a sound diner, all highly detailed with painted interiors and passenger figures, highly detailed sprung metal trucks, and separately applied add-on details, among other things.

The 6-31712 from 2003 is indeed a beautiful UP set. Unfortunately, it pre-dated my getting back into the hobby by about a dozen years

I understand that set also came with a powered A and non-powered B and A units.

FWIW, I ordered my new Legacy UP powered AA set as a BTO through a well-known Forum sponsor and my cost was just under $1K.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

breezeinup: Uh, no and maybe I should have explained my purchasing situations more clearly. I did not buy my Union Pacific TMCC F3 ABA set when it first came out in 2005. I purchased it 3 years ago on eBay, NIB for $550.00, considerably less than what they went for in 2005. Then a NIB powered F3B about a year later for $160.00, also less than the $299.00 they were going for when first out.

So for a total of $710.00, I was able purchase an ABBA set with an additional powered F3B vs a current F7 ABBA set with a powered F7B for $2,260.00, using your figures above. The actual ABBA set would cost more, because rather than two powered Bs, one would likely be powered and the other, the non-powered Super Base, which costs more than the powered B.

So, for the older TMCC set, I paid less than a third of what the comparable Legacy set costs right now. True, the Legacy ABBA set would have the additional powered A. But who needs six motors? I have a small to medium-sized layout and 4 motors is more than enough to pull my UP passenger train.

Well, OK. But it is interesting that you find Lionel's pricing "outrageous," as you said, as if it were something recent, yet in this case, at least, the pricing appears pretty much the same as it was 17 years ago. (And apparently not outrageous enough to keep you from ordering a set last month, as you mentioned, despite now saying "My days of buying new Lionel ended years ago.") As has been discussed many, many times, Lionel trains have always been expensive, out of reach of most people going back at least to the 40s, 50s and beyond.

Glad you were able to find the older engines and are happy with them (now that you've managed to get them to run). Of course, by getting them after the passage of 15 years you also went 15 years without having a chance to use them. And if you wait another 15 years, you can probably get these F7s at a good deal too, You'll just be 15 years older.  It's good you discovered that if you buy old trains they're usually cheaper than if you buy better operating new models now. But lots of people already know that. Some folks want to pat themselves on the back because they saved money by waiting a long time to buy something. That's fine. But there are also plenty who, once they get the item and realize they missed out on years of enjoying it and are now years older and have less time, look back with regret and say "I wish I'd done this sooner."  At some point, putting things off equates to never.

Good observations, breeze. But I'd also obtained several  early Legacy engines within that time frame as well as having had all of the warbonnet Santa Fe TMCC ABA sets, my latest being the Lionel Santa Fe TMCC ABA F7s from 2007.

It's just that my time in the hobby is in its sunset years, so I can't see spending thousands for a modest upgrade  of what I already have. I was only considering purchasing this new F7 set at its outrageous present-day price if the TMCC set wasn't repairable. But again, gunrunnerjohn saved me from that. So, I'm a happy camper.

Breeze: so true. In the 50s I always wanted the Santa Fe AA and the Lackawanna FM. And I had the money squirreled away from my meager allowance and Christmas gifts of cash from uncles. But I d/n do it so I lost 6 years of play time then the layout came down. Regretted it ever since.

@Ritchie C, first, congratulations on acquiring this really beautiful Legacy full featured set of F7 UP diesels, they are gorgeous. It looks like Lionel did really nice in their painting/decalling this beautiful set. Also, I like your layout and scenic detailing, it looks to be a fun to run model railroad. (I picked up my Sante Fe ABBA set yesterday and plan to check it out Saturday) Merry Christmas and Happy Railroading Everyone

Well, dang it! Look what all of you in this thread have made me do! I’ve been thinking about this thread for the past two days and finally did it. After more thought and ponderance, I ordered the UP Legacy AA F7s and a powered F7B to go with them. They were the second-to-last ones the vendor had.

I blame Richie and breez who are mostly responsible for this. And Larry, the recent arrival of your new Santa Fe F7s didn’t help. You just had to show us, didn’t ya?

Anyway, they’re supposed to arrive before Christmas. So, I guess I just bought myself a Christmas present.

Thanks a lot, guys.

@Yellowstone Special - Vern, I'm very happy for you.  Merry Christmas!  I know you'll enjoy your new train. 

@PH1975 posted:

@Yellowstone Special - Vern, I'm very happy for you.  Merry Christmas!  I know you'll enjoy your new train. 

Thank you, PH1975 and Merry Christmas to you.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Well, dang it! Look what all of you in this thread have made me do! I’ve been thinking about this thread for the past two days and finally did it. After more thought and ponderance, I ordered the UP Legacy AA F7s and a powered F7B to go with them. They were the second-to-last ones the vendor had.

I blame Richie and breez who are mostly responsible for this. And Larry, the recent arrival of your new Santa Fe F7s didn’t help. You just had to show us, didn’t ya?

Anyway, they’re supposed to arrive before Christmas. So, I guess I just bought myself a Christmas present.

Thanks a lot, guys.

Love it! Friendly advice: now that you’ve turned to the dark side, go ahead and find the superbass B-unit to complete your ABBA set. Do it now or pay twice as much later. It always happens….

Post pics when they arrive!

@Yellowstone Special, Vern, Congratulations and Merry Christmas, your going to be very happy, the sounds will be fantastic, Legacy control will be lots of fun. This hobby can become an addiction, but that’s an understatement. There’s another thread showing the yellow bonnet Sante Fe with the blue stripe, it’s very nice, but I’m thinking the UP version is better looking with the green color on the top of the nose. I sold a couple of steamers to make this set affordable, so I’ll pick out another steamer next year. Happy Railroading Everyone

@Rider Sandman posted:

Love it! Friendly advice: now that you’ve turned to the dark side, go ahead and find the superbass B-unit to complete your ABBA set. Do it now or pay twice as much later. It always happens….

Post pics when they arrive!

@Rider Sandman:

Thanks, and you're right. But the only Union Pacific passenger train I model is the Yellowstone Special, which passed through my hometown twice a day during the summers in the 1950s through mid-1960s. This train consisted of just AB locomotives and 9 passenger cars.

So, I'll end up with a powered F7A I won't need. But I can live with that. These new units will replace the ones shown below in the video, which has been posted before.

@leapinlarry posted:

@Yellowstone Special, Vern, Congratulations and Merry Christmas, your going to be very happy, the sounds will be fantastic, Legacy control will be lots of fun. This hobby can become an addiction, but that’s an understatement. There’s another thread showing the yellow nose Sante Fe with the blue stripe, it’s very nice, but I’m thinking the UP version is better looking with the green color on the top of the nose. I sold a couple of steamers to make this set affordable, so I’ll pick out another steamer next year. Happy Railroading Everyone

Thank you, Larry and Merry Christmas to you!

Sounds great, Vern. Love the video!  Merry Christmas!

@Rider Sandman posted:

Sounds great, Vern. Love the video!  Merry Christmas!

Thank you, Rider Sandman and Merry Christmas to you!

@Yellowstone Special - Vern, when I read the news of your decision to buy the UP Legacy set it reminded me of a story I heard several years ago about a guy my wife used to work with.

He had reached the age when his children were finally grown and had moved out, and there was just he and his wife living at home, and their usual practice was to give each other a nice Christmas gift. Similar to you Vern (and many of the rest of us), there was something he had always dearly wanted to get someday - in his case it was a Harley Davidson motorcycle. So, that Christmas - to be sure he got what he'd always wanted - under the auspices that it was 'her' gift, he bought a Harley; and in turn - that year she bought him a Mink Stole! 😘

I don't know if this holds true for your household Vern, but maybe - just to be safe - you should put your thinking cap on about a nice gift for your wife. Perhaps a nice UP Superbass unit?

@PH1975 posted:

@Yellowstone Special - Vern, when I read the news of your decision to buy the UP Legacy set it reminded me of a story I heard several years ago about a guy my wife used to work with.

He had reached the age when his children were finally grown and had moved out, and there was just he and his wife living at home, and their usual practice was to give each other a nice Christmas gift. Similar to you Vern (and many of the rest of us), there was something he had always dearly wanted to get someday - in his case it was a Harley Davidson motorcycle. So, that Christmas - to be sure he got what he'd always wanted - under the auspices that it was 'her' gift, he bought a Harley; and in turn - that year she bought him a Mink Stole! 😘

I don't know if this holds true for your household Vern, but maybe - just to be safe - you should put your thinking cap on about a nice gift for your wife. Perhaps a nice UP Superbass unit?

Lol! Now that is one funny story and thanks for posting it. That’s a great idea about a nice gift for wifie.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

I blame Richie and breez who are mostly responsible for this. And Larry, the recent arrival of your new Santa Fe F7s didn’t help. You just had to show us, didn’t ya?

Anyway, they’re supposed to arrive before Christmas. So, I guess I just bought myself a Christmas present.

Thanks a lot, guys.

In the immortal words of Sgt. Shultz, "I know nothing."

And don't look at this Legacy SP SD40T-2 with UP badging or the Legacy Warbonnet ABA set in the background !

@Yellowstone Special posted:

I had ordered this UP Legacy set with the powered F7B in November. But when gunrunnerjohn, the miracle worker, was able to get my 2005 TMCC F3 set running, I cancelled the order and have been enjoying the older set again.

But those new Legacy F7s look terrific.

Vern,  beautiful set.  Are the passenger cars traditional size?  By the way, what's flying in the upper left corner? 

Ok, as I might have said earlier, I have the new F7 Sante Fe AA, ABBA, set and here are some pictures for you to compare to the beautiful UP F7 units, in my opinion it’s a six-1, 1/2 dozen the other, as both sets are gorgeous. Just for your information Lionel has them programmed as a pair, Eng 1, Eng 99. I’ll show the B units later after I read the owner’s manual. Happy Railroading Everyone

Sharp looking pair LARRY, ENJOY!!!!

@Richie C. posted:

In the immortal words of Sgt. Shultz, "I know nothing."

And don't look at this Legacy SP SD40T-2 with UP badging or the Legacy Warbonnet ABA set in the background !

Lol! Nice trains, Richie.   But fortunately, I already have 3 Legacy GPs since my 036 curves don’t handle SDs as well and also a Santa Fe F7 ABBA set (TMCC).

Otherwise, I’d probably be tempted again.