Wow! A lot of great ideas here Mark. Your thoughts and those from others have me thinking I could make my 8' x 8' layout much more interesting if I enlarged to a 11' x 11' platform with 2 or 3 levels. I'm looking forward to see your results, this thread is going to be a great catalyst for others. Good luck!
I have been following this thread with great interest. I am moving into a new house this weekend and will likely have a similar sized space to work with. And of course, I want it all!
Tons of great ideas everyone.
Here's one I spotted online and one I designed for 2-rail that would probably work in a 12x12 room for 3-rail:
I've never been fond of too much track, the spaghetti bowl look.
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Everyone,
I have watched numerous plans develop here also. I really enjoy it, and get ideas for myself. They have been of special of interest when folks are designing layouts for areas similar to what I was looking forward to having. Now that we are actually discussing a layout for my room, it is almost overwhelming in a good way! I appreciate all the encouragement and interest! Through the development of my layout, we can bring ideas to others!
Matt,
I got it, I hadn't noticed what size curves were on your plan. You bring good news.
Bob D.
Those are good plans. The published one with the island in the center certainly brings in a lot of interest, and with John C.'s idea of a lift out/swing out would work with the sliding glass doors. The light that came in the doors was great for my daughter's art studio, but they are something to work around for a layout.
JHZ,
Congratulations on the new house! I hope you have good weather for your move, and that it goes smoothly. We have moved more times than I would have liked, and it has always been a challenge. I know you are looking forward to a new layout in the new house.
Icytrains,
I'm glad to see you here. It has been a while since we chatted on a topic. I hope we can give you some ideas as well!
Mark:
Don't forget please: Need to know the length of the wall the sliding glass door is on. How far is each edge of the sliding glass door from each end of the wall and how tall are you and high high is the ceiling?
John,
I took all the measurements I didn't have last night after my last response here. I plan on sending them and other answers tonight. Thank you for your interest!
I need clarification Mark. I think I'm beginning to understand. I see 2 doors unfortunately. The sliding glass goes outside? It must remain accessible, correct? I see the opening...into the house I believe...correct? The "opening" goes into your house correct and must be accessible as well, correct?
John,
Yes I don't doubt you need clarification. 
Surprisingly the sliding doors are not the main entrance out of the basement. That door is right beside the door that enters the room from the rest of the basement. I will show it on a drawing that I will send with the room dimensions tonight, I hope.
The layout room is an addition that supports the sunroom above. After my in-laws moved here following the death of my wife's grandmother (the original owner) they decided to replace the small deck with a sunroom. The trainroom was only built to support the sunroom so to speak. So the door to the train room and the door to the outside take the place where the sliding glass which were originally the only way out. My mother-in-law insisted on reusing the sliding glass doors even though all they were going to use the room for was storage. My wife and I thought it would have been better if they just put a window there and discard the sliding glass door.
So, the sliding glass door is seldom opened, but I want to keep access in case we want to open it at some time. Blocking the door with a removable bridge or section would be fine.
I'll show it on the drawing.
Some "high line" inspiration might be found in the old N&W line that parallels parts of the PA 43 toll road North of I-70.
Also remember that not every "coal mine" has to have a monster tipple. A 1-2 car siding with a truck dump or the Lionel conveyor coal loader could simulate a small "off layout" industry.
There was a layout in "101 Track Plans" that would be approximately 10x10 in O scale. As I recall, in H.O., it was 18" radius (approximately 33"-36" in O scale) and used a couple of bridges and scenic elements to disguise it's small size. Can't remember if it was two or three laps. I'll have to find my copy of the book, but the point is that even with a small spare bedroom in basement-deprived areas you can have a continuous-run O scale layout.
Mark:
I've got an awesome idea for you to consider! I've been drawing on my C.A.D. for hours (my birthday gift to you. :-)) today for you. Things keep falling into place. too bad I didn't charge, I could retire! :-)
The main line run is over sixty feet of non-repeating, non-circling-main and travels along sharp curves with steep grades. It mimics the actual run! I was reading about the real "Big Run" today and read that the curves were so sharp that they had many derailments. Your curves will certainly be a prototypical correct "model" for that canyon. You should as part of your operating plan have RESTRICTED SPEEDS throughout the canyon. No more than 15 MPH. That will be prototypical and make your run feel even longer.
In addition, your track is on 3 levels! This is going to be really cool! The train may be passing through the same wall area twice or three times, but all on distinct different levels. A canyon is PERFECT for distracting viewers that the train is in the same generally vicinity.
I hope that you have some skill with bench-work and backdrop construction. I'm giving you an advanced prototypical track arrangement that will require flex track and the need for ensuring spacing between lines thru the passing siding and several clearance issues. There are 4 places where the main passes over or under itself on its long and winding road.
The best part of my plan is I've left your doors both unobstructed. You may simply walk up to and in or out either one. Life is good.
After receiving your measurements, and getting your blessing, I may want to put some layout in front of the sliding glass door section that does NOT move. Maybe and maybe not--it's entirely up to you.
The "ends" of your line (Blackwater Canyon Line), are the town of Davis (elevation 3100 feet with 600 and some odd people) and the town of Hendricks (elevation 1700 and having 250 people.) The canyon is "between" those two points. YES! Even on YOUR LINE, Davis is higher up than Hendricks at 60 inches and Hendricks at 41 inches. Your grade is 6%, which is steep but ideal for the look you are attempting to capture and allows for between 60 to 70 feet of running without circling.
Currently, I don't have these "ends" drawn, because I could put reverse loops at both ends which would allow a train to run unattended; (My "ceaseless" pattern) so that you could operate the other making it more challenging passing through the canyon. You will have one long passing siding between Davis and Hendricks allowing "opposing" trains to pass by one another.
Because of your room size, and because reversing loops take up a lot of space and aren't that interesting--limit scenic possibilities, I think you should consider a WYE configuration at Hendricks and a small (24 inch) turntable at Davis. Both these configurations are interesting to operate/control vs. just looking at a train run on a turn-around loop. You would stop, switch consists, drop off, pick up, and have some staging drawers near by.
However, I understand that at times it's more convenient to have the reversing loop arrangement. It's up to you.
I will post the main line run tonight for you to observe. It will probably require a phone conversation between us so that you may gain a clear understanding.
You will be able to see my color coded lines and markings on the drawing and trace the main line path. However, you will need a verbal explanation of what I envision as scenery and an operational scheme for this line. This is going to be fun to operate! Two or three people could operate this system at one time.
This DESIGN PROCESS theme theme will require you to investigate more details for your future acquisitions. Also, regardless of what you decide, PREPARE THAT ROOM FOR A LAYOUT COMPLETELY before you start construction.
I think your ceiling is painted already. I would do a very light blue if it isn't. But, the BIGGEST thing I'd do is settle on a track arrangement and then install overhead spotlights that may be controlled by separate dimmer switches so you may set your lighting any way you wish easily.
I know that Im throwing a ton at you at once, but I put the layout higher to get better spacing between the points where needed while leaving that baseboard heater unobstructed. Heat is good. :-) Fire is bad! I hope that you are taking notes. :-) I wish that I lived closer, because this will be a great project.
Greg Nagy posted:Also remember that not every "coal mine" has to have a monster tipple. A 1-2 car siding with a truck dump or the Lionel conveyor coal loader could simulate a small "off layout" industry.
I built one from one of the Lionel coal Depots on top of two Plasticville coaling towers. It doesn't operate, of course, but the footprint is small (for O scale, anyway).
palallin posted:Greg Nagy posted:Also remember that not every "coal mine" has to have a monster tipple. A 1-2 car siding with a truck dump or the Lionel conveyor coal loader could simulate a small "off layout" industry.
I built one from one of the Lionel coal Depots on top of two Plasticville coaling towers. It doesn't operate, of course, but the footprint is small (for O scale, anyway).
Great suggestions Greg and Palallin! The small or a suggestion of an off layout industry is defiantly a plus the smaller space you have. Greg, the N&W high line off 43 sounds like what Pittsburghrailfan Dan suggested earlier, just he may be thinking of a different section. I am not familiar with the area off 43 other than I know from the map it is there. I will look into it. Thank you!
AGHRMatt posted:There was a layout in "101 Track Plans" that would be approximately 10x10 in O scale. As I recall, in H.O., it was 18" radius (approximately 33"-36" in O scale) and used a couple of bridges and scenic elements to disguise it's small size. Can't remember if it was two or three laps. I'll have to find my copy of the book, but the point is that even with a small spare bedroom in basement-deprived areas you can have a continuous-run O scale layout.
I almost wore out my copy of 101 Track Plans when I was growing up! I built one of the simple 4x8 plans back about 1970. I still have my copy, but it is packed away in a box along with my information on the Western Maryland Blackwater Canyon. Trouble is, the boxes are in the closet under the stairs to the basement, that I will have to empty to get to them. Well, that is a project I planned to do once I got the room in question. Thank you for the tip. While those plans lack accuracy, they at least can provide ideas.
John,
Wow! You have been busy!! I am attaching the room drawing. I'm not good with CAD, so I just wrote on a copy of the SCARM room border drawing I fought through a few evenings to make. 
All the dimensions are there for anyone who wants to can take a look. Here are answers to questions I wrote down last night when I was finishing the measurements.
I can build a lift out. Hinged lift up or swing in would be more challenging
Glass door starts 31” from the far corner, 36” from the near corner, and is 71” long, Opens from the far end.
My height – 5’ 11”
Ceiling height – 89” Last 16” by pink wall – 77 ½”
One – three-bulb light fixture, yes I defiantly plan to put in more light.
I will send you an e-mail with phone number and some other comments.
Anyone, feel free to comment any way you wish. 
Thank you everyone for your interest!! 
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Okay Mark:
Here is my first DRAFT. I have NOT yet looked at your dimensions.
GREAT NEWS! DOORS COMPLETELY UNOBSTRUCTED! MORE THAN SIXTY FEET OF MAIN LINE UN-REPEATED!
The tour of the BCL is as follows...4 to 5 car train departs highest point the Town of Davis at 60 inches on the way down the mountainside toward Blackwater Falls which is painted onto the backdrop. The steady LINE OF GREEN IS AT 60 INCHES. I will complete town of Davis track arrangement with some turnaround alternative for an engine, turntable, wye or reverse loop. Also, there will be a few sidings. You could switch cars on/off there. I really like the idea of a wye track. Not too many people use them. The arrangement would be interesting and serve a critical purpose as well.
As the line CHANGES TO BLUE in color it begins its steep descent thru Blackwater Canyon (pink wall). There are MOUNTAINS PAINTED ONTO THE BACKDROP--OR PHOTO REALISTIC IMAGES OF BLACKWATER CANYON. The first sharp curve (36 diameter) is BIG RUN CULVERT. Many trains derailed there in historical times. Restricted speed is a good idea. After rounding Big Run Culvert over some of the many stone arch supports (SCENIC HIGHLIGHT), the train comes to the lone, but long, passing siding. It's outer curve is a forty-two diameter curve. The track switch (turnout) is flat and level with the track attached to it flat/level at least for a foot. The train continues its steep descent enters a tunnel, goes around a hidden horseshoe curve, and as it emerges from a tunnel the track shortly becomes flat and level at the turnout at the end of this lone passing siding.
The line becomes brown in color at the lowest level. It is now 41 inches from the floor...19 inches less than where it started. It runs behind the Big Run Culvert and emerges out of a tunnel onto a short straight section of track leading into Hendricks. Exactly as with Davis, there will be some turnaround alternative for an engine, turntable, wye or reverse loop. I envision a turntable configuration here as a turntable is a highly impressive feature of any layout! It will be the first thing people see upon entering the layout and since this area is "centered" access to the turntable area is easy. There would only be two or three "spoke" tracks and maybe a custom-built roundhouse--two or three stall--very small--maybe. This would be a scenic highlight. I would add a few spurs as well.
There will be STAGING DRAWERS at both Davis and Hendricks.
I may add a short spur inside the passing siding to drop off or pick up some flats to transport logs. I think the coal should be "off stage" with coal loads passing through. However, both towns will need coal for power and to replenish. Both towns should have water tanks as well. I would buy HO scale water tanks. These give the illusion but do NOT overwhelm a small layout.
I will wait for your feedback. Just FYI: The curves are 36 diameter. An 0-4-0 and 44 tonner would fit like a glove and work great. I picture old time, older era 40 foot boxcars, hoppers and flats being pulled in small strings. Buy a "Bobber" caboose or two! :-) Ideal and interesting.
The spacing of the track from the walls are 3 inches. On the pink wall the 1st track is three inches from the wall. The second is 6 inches further in, the third is four inches in. Your spacing on the passing siding is 4 inches. With short cars, it will work fine and look awesome! I left six inches between the highest track and the second track so you could use screen wire, foam, paper mache, whatever to build canyon side rocks with grass and weeds growing out of the rocks. There are tons of actual canyon photos.
Your Aisle Ways will be 36" wide minimum. You will have two ACCESS POINTS as the track in the rear will need to be installed, and maintained. Your main line has two turnouts which will minimize your issues. You will easily be able to walk up to either turnout to maintain it.
This track arrangement maximizes the space and provides exceptional alternatives for exceptionally interesting and dynamic scenery.
You will have to let know what you would like to see in Hendricks and Davis.
PS: The track looks like a spaghetti bowl, but it's not. The track is at different levels and using scenery as scene dividers will give the illusion that the train is traveling from point to point and not circling, because it isn't.
NOVEL OVER.
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John,
A Novel? Yes! Illustrated too!
I printed off the drawing to better follow along the story. It is not what I had in mind when I made my initial post Sunday, but it does have striking similarities to what I was planning in HO between 15 and 20 years ago. It is just I had it more strung out in a little larger room in HO. Amazing!!
I am going to search my stored documents for a written description I made of my plan then, similar to the description you just posted to refresh my memory. I also need to dig in that closet for my books and articles. Come to think of it, the articles may be in a box in the garage. That is easier to get to. I will get back to you tomorrow, after I have had a chance for it to sink in, and come up with comments. Right now, I am almost overwhelmed, not just the work you did, but the similarities to my thoughts before we got too bust with our girls' activities in high school and then college.
Thank you again!!!
Gonna have to follow this thread...in the same boat...12x12 room.
Nessmuck posted:Gonna have to follow this thread...in the same boat...12x12 room.
Welcome aboard!!
Good luck to you Mark. Looking forward to your progress.
Andy
