New PS 3 Diesel goes dark when it goes to my other power block

2.30 is the loader program on your computer.  The remote should have version 4.3 of the DCS program on it.

Both blocks are on the same TIU?

It goes dark but keeps running at same speed?

You are correct. I meant to say the TIU has 4.20 on it. I only recently saw a note about an upgrade to 4.3 .... I will try that and see if it helps.

And yes, both blocks are on the 2 fixed outputs of the same TIU (I only have one).

The engine does maintain the same speed. One time I blew the horn just as it passed into the "bad" block, and the horn stayed on until I shut off power to the track !

I don't have an answer on that one. 

What are you using  to  power Fixed and Fixed 2?    If different power supplies try using only one for both channels.  It sounds like one channel may have the wires reversed somewhere or a power supply out of phase with the other power supply.

You should really upgrade the remote to the same version as the TIU.  2.30 is an ancient version.

Gregg, he says the other locos work there.  I don't see what error there could be in layout wiring.

GRJ: He corrected himself--above.

Bill, I wouldn't do anything in loco but check contacts and wiring.  You don't want to void the warranty.  If it's not readily detectable, I would telephone MTH in Columbia MD and ask tech support---if they don't have a ready answer, ask for a warranty repair order and send it in..

Thank you all for some great answers. I have a Z1000 on block A (the one acting up) and a Lionel 180 W power pack on block B. I did try reversing the outputs from the TIU, but there was no change. Maybe I'll try using just one power pack  for both.

I did upgrade both the remote and the TIU at the same time. I misspoke when I said 2.30 on the remote. 2.30 is my current MTH loader program, which I think is current.

I did talk to an MTH tech guy, and he mentioned the same thing about wires being too close to the capacitors, but I'm not good with advanced stuff like that. I'll try your test on the program track and see what happens. MTH did give me a return Auth. number, so if all else fails, I'll pack her up and send her to Maryland.

Thanks to everyone for the help. I'll report back later with results. ... Bill W.

Do you use the same type of track in both blocks?

You say you've switched the outputs to which the 2 blocks are connected?

Bill,

When you reverse the output to the tracks, only reverse the output to the problem block, not both.

Just so I am clear as to what I meant, I meant switch blocks from fixed 1 to fixed 2 and vice versa.  Not switch black and red.  You do have reds feeding center rail and blacks feeding outside rails, don't you?

Robert,

If my understanding is correct, the problem is that this particular engine isn't seeing a DCS signal in the problem block.

There are a limited number of reasons why this can happen:

• Red and black wires are reversed in the connection to this block
• The DCS signal is turned off for Fixed #2
• The engine is somehow at fault.

What makes this strange is that other engines allegedly work fine in both blocks.

Bill,

The following should be able to isolate the problem:

• Verify that other engines work fine going through both blocks. If they do, you have an issue with this particular engine. If other engines also do not respond when going through the problem block, continue below
• Turn on the DCS signal for all channels by pressing Menu/System/DCS Setup and then pressing the AON soft key. If the problem remains, continue below
• Swap the output of Fixed #1 and Fixed #2. If the problem moves to the other block, the problem is in TIU channel Fixed #2. If the problem remains in the original problem block, swap the channels back and continue below
• Swap the black and red wires at the rails of the problem block. If the problem persists, there's something that you aren't mentioning to us, possibly because you don't realize that it's important.

Barry if red and black were reversed, since he has a singke TIU, there would be a short when a trainwent from one block to another.  This is a real puzzler.  Real rough guess would be that for some reason one signal generator in TIU sends a signal that that ps2 board can't read.  

Bill, what signal strength do this and the other locos read on the good block?  What signal strength do the other locos give on fhe bad block?

Hello all, the signal strength on both blocks is mostly all 10s. All three PS 2 engines run great in both blocks. It is just this one engine (a PS 3) that is acting up. I am hesitant to reverse the red and black wires on either block. I'm afraid I'll wreck the TIU. I tried reversing the 2 fixed inputs from my Z 1000 on block A and the Lionel 180 W on block B to see if that did anything. Still the same result. Yesterday, I started the PS 3 engine in the good block, and bell and horn, reverse all worked. I let it go at a speed of 10 into the bad block and had no control. I started a PS 2 engine in the "bad" block, but it works fine and followed the PS 3 engine around the loop. When the PS 3 got aback into block B (the good block), I regained control and was able to slow to a stop and shut down. I put both the PS 3 engine and a PS 2 engine on my programing track running through TIU fixed one, and I tried again running it through fixed 2 and they both ran great. Even though it seems to be on just one bad block, I've got to believe it's the engine. The MTH tech did say something about the wires in the engine going too near the capacitors, as did bbsfdl60 in his post. I just don't feel I have the know how to try fooling with that. I'm thinking it should go back to MTH. One last thought, the 2 blocks are separated by cutting just the center rail. Would it help if I cut the outer rails too ?   Thanks again ...

Do not cut the outer rails. 

Have you tried powering up the layout with the PS3 on the bad block, and then try starting it?

Another thing to try, with PS3 loco running on good block, press to read signal strength, and see what happens to the signal when it goes into bad block.

I would not be surprised if MTH is unable to replicate the problem.

Not having a PS3, I don't know what bbs is referring to.  Perhaps if he or someone could post a picture it might help.

Please do all this testing with no trains being pulled by the loco.  That way, there is no crossover between TIU posts/outputs.

Did you try using one power supply for both channels. I'd  try the 180. it has a great circuit breaker.  It does sound like a engine problem if the proto-2s are fine in both blocks.

Even if the Z-1000 & 180 are in phase there 's still a slight difference in voltage  . A couple of volts min.Would that set off the proto-3, I have no idea.

Well, This engine is acting really strange. I did try to start up on the bad block. First time I pressed the start up the remote said Engine not on track. I hit the button a second time and it started up ! I added a little power and it sort of jerked along and I couldn't add any more power. I tried again, It started. While idling, I tooted the horn, then added power to about 15 and away she went, but once she's moving, I can't control it. Any button I press says Check Track, but then once it did speed up while I was playing with the speed control.

Very strange. I hope MTH will know what to do. I'm worried too that they won't be able to replicate the problem. I did run a signal test with the engine. In the good block, it's almost all 10s, but when it crosses to the bad block, it says Check Track, then Out of RF Range. It keeps going around the loop and then comes back on with 10s when it gets back to the good block. I thank you all for your ideas. The MTH tech guy did say something about PS 3 being more sensitive to impedance or something, but I really didn't know what he was talking about.

I did just try running both TIU channels with the Lionel 180 watt transformer. That sounded promising to me, but no, I get the same results. thanks for the the idea.

 Maybe jumper the outside rails with a couple of alligator clips. or turn the engine around facing the opposite direction. I don't like copper  wipers rubbing on a wheel to pick up electricity..  Who knows what will happen... probably nothing.

I removed the shell from the engine today, then contacted MTH. The guy told me to try to move some wires away from a copper coil next to the capacitors and the 8 pin connector.

Not sure what I did, but now it won't work correctly in either block. The guy said to wrap it up and send it to them. I did. I think that confirms it was the engine and not my set up.

Thanks to all for your help.   Bill

Great news.  Lessens the chance than MTH won't be able to replicate.

William,

What track are you using?  If it is Gargraves or Ross, try a jumper from outside rail to outside rail in your problem block.

Dave

I use MTH Real Tracks. Someone else had suggested that, but I never did try it. I'm pretty sure it was the engine, and I shipped it back to MTH yesterday. All 3 of my PS 2 engines work well with 10s on the track signal, so I don't think it's the track, but thanks for the suggestion.

Bill

Bill,

The reason I asked is because I have seen some of the new PS3 engines shut down on track that only had one outer rail connected.  I have also seen bad 2/3 rail switches.  Keep us posted when your engine comes back. 

Dave