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I ordered two RMT GG1s way back when - long story about when and why but anyway.  Apparently they just arrived.  I had forgotten about them and bought a used scale Williams model to meet some photography needs I had of the GG1, when they arrived today.  

 

Here they are, their neat little spring-loaded pantographs up, waving to you guys. 

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And in comparison to a scale GG1 (sans pantographs here).

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Comment:

Overall these are very nice looking locos, although they are so much shorter than scale that they look like another class of loco entirely, a related class by the same designed, but smaller.  Maybe a BB1? - If letters designate size in a family series B would be smaller than D would be smaller than G?  The BB1 would be for inner-city rail maybe?

 

Pluses:

They are very heavy, to the extent at first I thought they had metal bodies, too, but I think the bodies are just very heavy, thick ABS.  They appear well built, and generally good looking. Paint and the five stripes are good.  Yes, they are way shorter than scale, but they have lots of wheels, two pantographs that spring up if desired, and look good anyway.  They seem able to pull a lot.  BEEPS may be their cousins, but I imagine one of these could pull a chain of six BEEPs backwards without breaking a sweat.  I had one on the layout pulling twenty two scale reefers.  It did not seem to be working hard.  The horn is loud - very loud.  The price: they are among the lowest cost locos I know of.

 

The minuses: Keep in mind I an used to locos that cost closer to three times what one of these costs, and rather spoiled by conparison. But anyway: they have no (engine sound, etc., other than the horn, which is, well, a loud electronic sound, sort of horn like.

They have only two center pickups - four would be better.  

I have a lot of trouble learning to drive these smoothly.   They jackrabbit as badly as anything I have run in the past several years, worse than a WBB diesel that has its motors still wired in parallel.  I push the throttle on my ZW-L forward and the GG1 will sit there and at just past 6 on the scale, start moving.  I leared to move the throttle to 6.25 and leave it there and then nudge it up .5 position at a time and it is okay, but woe the person who just swings the thrttle to 8 right off.  Backing off the throttle art form too, and as you cross 6 volts toward 5.5,  bamm! - it stops - right now.  No flywheel effect at all. Anyway, with practice I imagine a person could learn to run them well, particularly if you look at the numbers of the power supply, not the loco, and work to keep it just so . . .although they are not going to run nearly as slow at the low end as say, Legacy or Premier will run in conventional.  I did not try them above about 11 volts, because they were already going close to light speed there . . . 

 

I had trouble consistently cycling the e-units in each, but again, maybe a person could learn.    Both GG1s start out in forward and  go through an F-N-R cycle as conventional locos do.  But I learned with these I have to listen for an audible sound, sort of a combination of "clunk" and "clock" that the e-unit makes, otherwise it has not changed position.  Both locos make the same sound with their e-units, so i think they are supposed to make that sound.  Anyway I am glad they do, because they are  fussy about how long and fast you drop the power to cycle them.  Again, its probably something you can learn.   In both loco's cases, something happened to the e-units once in a while, they seem to hang up or whatever and the loco acts like it is dead.  Picking it up and shaking it seems to awaken it - or maybe its just taking it off the track and putting it back down.  Whatever . . .  I tried to run the two together, but their e-units soon got out of sync.  

 

I'm not sure what I will do with these.  Certainly wire the motors in series of something to slow them down if I run them at all.  

 

Stil,l one has to keep in mind the price.  Not much else is going to cost less and have a motor and e-unit, and they seem well made, they will handle tight curved track,  and they are very heavy and capable of pulling 30+ cars.

 

 

 

 

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Last edited by Lee Willis
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They don't look too bad in the first picture, but when you see them with scale equipment it is another story.  After the description of how they run, it is hard to see any application for them other than a basic maybe under a Christmas tree layout or something.  I'm not knocking them, but they are not anything I would be interested in.  Thanks for the pictures and review.  Always interesting.

 

Art

"Overall these are very nice looking locos, although they are so much shorter than scale that they look like another class of loco entirely, a related class by the same designed, but smaller.  Maybe a BB1? - If letters designate size in a family series B would be smaller than D would be smaller than G?  The BB1 would be for inner-city rail maybe?"

BB1 already exists:image
Image credit cstrains.

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My experience is that these do not selectively compress well.  It's not RMT's fault; Lionel and MTH look no better to me.  I don't know what it is, but you just can't represent that engine properly without the length.  Most of my stuff is Railking, and I'm pretty picky, but it all looks pretty good to me - they do a pretty nice job with the Imperial stuff.  

 

The EMD E-Series engines are another one that just don't compress well in my eyes.  I think it's because those engines are so much ABOUT the length - it's the one thing that defines them over the F-Series.  

 

Shame too, because I've love nothing more than to send a scale GG-1 over my O-60 curves.   I probably could too, except for that I built in some S-curves that I really like but the GG-1 probably wouldn't.  I'd love to try, but I've yet to find anyone that woul cough up a GG-1 test subject 

I would be surprised if these were ABS. All of the traditional size GG1s are diecast going back to the post war engine and the K-Line engine that the RMT engine is based on. 

These engines will pull as much or more than any two motored engine out there scale or traditional. Put a ERR cruise commander in them and they will run slow and smooth.

 

Pete

 

It feels cold like diecast metal.

Oh, and the gears are metal (at least those seen from underneath the engine).  It also has traction tires on both wheels of the outermost powered axles.

Although mine will probably never pull anything longer than a seven-car freight train (including caboose), it's nice to know it has plenty of power to spare.

No complaints from me.

to me trying to compare these to a scale one is like comparing a soft ball to a basket ball these where always small no matter who made them. even the original post war Lionel compared to a Williams Scale GG1 or Lionel scale GG1 will so engulf these you really can't compare to me though I never owned a semi-scale or postwar GG1 I bought a Scale Williams when they were blowing them out and to me the smaller ones are not there. I guess if you put the 14' passenger cars behind them fine. I have seen them ( lionel,williams,& K-line small GG1 and even before I saw a Scale Williams I was not really happy with the size as I like to run long Passenger cars and they just didn't look right with a Passenger car about 6 inches longer than it. All in all though seeing the have 2 flywheel can motors they could be switched to ERR with cruise and that would really improve the slower take off that someone was commenting about earlier  

Originally Posted by thestumper:

My experience is that these do not selectively compress well.  It's not RMT's fault; Lionel and MTH look no better to me.  I don't know what it is, but you just can't represent that engine properly without the length.  Most of my stuff is Railking, and I'm pretty picky, but it all looks pretty good to me - they do a pretty nice job with the Imperial stuff.  

 

The EMD E-Series engines are another one that just don't compress well in my eyes.  I think it's because those engines are so much ABOUT the length - it's the one thing that defines them over the F-Series.  

 

Shame too, because I've love nothing more than to send a scale GG-1 over my O-60 curves.   I probably could too, except for that I built in some S-curves that I really like but the GG-1 probably wouldn't.  I'd love to try, but I've yet to find anyone that woul cough up a GG-1 test subject 

Contact 3rd rail Division of Sunset models. I believe they have a modification they can do to their scale GG1 to handle O54. I was looking at a model in one of my LHSs and while I believe they said they could do the mod to a new unit, they couldn't do it to the one I wanted. Which was good, because i can't afford the one I want

Originally Posted by Marty R:
Originally Posted by thestumper:

My experience is that these do not selectively compress well.  It's not RMT's fault; Lionel and MTH look no better to me.  I don't know what it is, but you just can't represent that engine properly without the length.  Most of my stuff is Railking, and I'm pretty picky, but it all looks pretty good to me - they do a pretty nice job with the Imperial stuff.  

 

The EMD E-Series engines are another one that just don't compress well in my eyes.  I think it's because those engines are so much ABOUT the length - it's the one thing that defines them over the F-Series.  

 

Shame too, because I've love nothing more than to send a scale GG-1 over my O-60 curves.   I probably could too, except for that I built in some S-curves that I really like but the GG-1 probably wouldn't.  I'd love to try, but I've yet to find anyone that woul cough up a GG-1 test subject 

Contact 3rd rail Division of Sunset models. I believe they have a modification they can do to their scale GG1 to handle O54. I was looking at a model in one of my LHSs and while I believe they said they could do the mod to a new unit, they couldn't do it to the one I wanted. Which was good, because i can't afford the one I want

I certainly agree the GG1 does not compress well, at least not as much as the K-Line, Lionel, and RMT models compress them.  As I said earlier, to me those much shorter models look like an entirely different loco.  But its a nice looking one - maybe just because I've seen it a lot all my life, but I like it.  

Still, a scale GG1 is a thing to behold: that is one big, awesome locomotive.  A totally different loco in look and "feel" than those shorter models, but just fantastic.  

 

As to curves, I have just the one scale GG1, the old Williams model.  The video below shows it running through a combination of 54 and 60 inch Atlas curves (two 60 pieces of 60" followed by one 54).  You can see it has no problems.  It could probably go a bit tighter although I have no tried.  So a scale GG1 can certainly do 60 and 54.. 

 

Not that it sticks out a lot though, on a pure all-54 curve it would probably be even worse.

 

 

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I have the original K-Line version of this engine - the "$100 GG1" of 2001. It sounds like they maintained the batch-o-relays electromechanical reverse unit on this new release, which surprises me. That's why you hear all the clicking on startup.

 

I can confirm that wiring the motors in series makes a HUGE difference. It increases the initial draw enough to stop the relays from chattering and makes acceleration more linear. A five minute change, really no reason not to.

 

As for appearance, I think this engine looks at home with postwar steamers, Madison and 2400 passenger cars, and all the other traditional favorites. Its one big visual improvement is that it actually has cab doors, unlike the Lionel originals.

Last edited by Alan P
Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello Lee..........

 

Does the RMT GG1 come with metal gears and come in Amtrak colors ? I am looking for a Amtrak semi-scale GG1 to pull my Lionel 15 inch aluminum Amtrak passenger cars.

 

Tiffany

RMT does feature an Amtrak loco, but in a Savings Bond paint scheme.  It may not be what you are looking for.  Check their site.  RMT Direct  Bob S.

I am not familiar with K-Line E Units. The only conventional K-Line engine I have, had the e unit removed. Relay E units, while generally bullet proof, don't connect to motor to the supplied voltage until the relay voltage is reached. On Williams E Units that is about 5 volts. That is the primary reason for the jump. It sounds like the K-Line E units might have a higher trip point.

In any event, current inrush limiters will suppress that sudden application of voltage to the motor.

 

Pete

Well, if these are based on the K-Line GG1s, then I may need to get one to upgrade with ERR boards to go with my K-Line factory TMCC green 5 stripe so I can double head them.  Sure, it's not the same as a scale one, but a double header racing around the loop pulling passenger cars (Or even a longer load of O27 box cars.) would sure look sweet.

I took one apart.  The body is diecast metal.  there are six screws to remove to get the body off: given the weight I don't blame them - I might have put eight in.

 

Anyway, re-wiring it in series makes no difference.  Near as i can determine it already s is in series. Regardless, it runs just the same.  The speed response must be done via electronics.  

 

I inserted a 15 ohm, 5 watt resistor in line with the motors, in series, the only high-wattage resistor I had in my shop - it is hardly ideal.  This slows the jackrabbiting down remarkably - too much, actually.  I have ordered a setof 2, 5, 10-watt ones, etc, and think around 4 to 5 ohms will be best, but I can live with this.  It starts and runs very well at low speeds, and now, the e-unit cycles every time, but it doesn't go very fast at the top.  

 

I will report back when I get the 5 ohm resistors, etc, and try one of those.  

 

It starts at about ten V now.  Here it is at 12 on the ZW-L scale. 

 

 

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