New to TMCC, and having nothing but trouble [SOLVED]

After you set the engine ID ... to start the engine press eng + # then press Alt1 to start the engine. Also check to see if the Smoke switch under the engine is not in the off position.

I have it and the command base plugged into the same power strip.

This is likely your biggest problem.  TMCC does lots of crazy things if the command base is plugged into a power strip that has surge protection.  It needs to be plugged into a properly grounded 3-prong outlet with NO surge protection.  A really cheap power strip without any surge protection circuitry will work.

 

Do you have track power OFF when moving the Run/Prog switch?  It should be off when this is done.  You've also left out a step in programming your locomotives.

 

1) Track power OFF

2) Move Run/Prog switch to PROG

3) Track power ON

4) ENG + "ID number" (your example was "15")

5) Press SET

6) AUX1 + "Loco/Sound type number" (This number should be in your owner's manual for the loco.  In general, 4 for a steam loco with railsounds and smoke, 8 for your GG1 if it has railsounds and 1 if it has a horn only)

7) Track power OFF

8) Move Run/Prog switch to RUN

 

Hope this information is helpful.

 

[Edited to add the "SET" button press.  Oops.]

 

 

 

 

Are either of these k line engine equipped with cruise?

Sometimes the cruise control can get messed up which causes speed control issues.

Also, if certain features are no working you may have to reset the feature code.

see this page: http://www.lionel.com/ForTheHo...oreTMCCfunctions.pdf

codes 0, 1, 4, and 8 cover most steam/diesel applications.

Between steps 5 & 6 and before you shut down power, remember to hit the set button.  Then power down and slide switch.  

 

Make sure you are sliding run/program and not one of the other switches like SS/RS or Smoke On/Smoke Off.  I kept doing that and not getting the engine ID set until I picked up the loco and realized I was toggling the wrong switch.

I remember in the early days of TMCC that running on a bare concrete floor caused some signal problems especially with traditional track with metal ties. Try sliding a sheet of plywood under the track and the base.

Doubt it is a TMCC issue, more likely a K-Line software/board problem. We have a friend who owns some of the K-Line steamers and they have had issues from day 1 with taking off at top speed and derailing or no response other times. It was (still is) so bad no one else in the group ever purchased a K-Line steamer. Hopefully these guys can help you out.

My K-line TMCC are my best operating locos.
They do have some different programming steps than the typical Lionel ones.
But in my opinion, much better seating for the price.

Sounds like operator error in both cases.

Detailing not seating.

On the Big Boy the RS/SS switch is on the tender.  At first I did flip the smoke switch instead of the Prog/Run switch (Those pesky switches switch sides of the cab when you turn the locomotive over!).  I know a couple of times I did flip the switch while still having track power, as the instructions that came with the locomotive said.  My track is FasTrack, and I don't have anything to slide under it.  I could try going to the carpet int eh other room if you think it'd help.  I'll check the power strip thing.  Unfortunately, this house is from the 60's and doesn't have many outlets, and I'm doing this in a room that was added on after the house was built.  The main thing that has really blown my stack as it were is that now my Big Boy doesn't function in conventional correctly as it has for the last year.  Also, is it best to connect the base to the track or to the U terminal on my track power controller?  Right now I have it to the track about a 1/4 of the oval away from the power drop.  As as far as I know they do not have cruse.  In fact I'm 100% sure the Big Boy doesn't have it, as it slows down in curves on the far side of the oval.

I really do what this to work.  I was excited to find the deal on the base with two controllers, and as soon as it showed up from UPS late last night I opened it up and was trying it out.  It may just be poor signaling from the base to the track as the red light blinks when ever I push buttons on the Cab-1, but the locomotives don't respond.  I'll probably mess with it tonight too.  If I still have errors, I might record a video and post it so you can all see what is going on.  Thanks.

Two things, it should not matter if you connect the base wire to the lockon or the transformer post and do you have one of those small outlet testors to make sure the 3 prong wall outlet is connected correctly?

 

Also, when it does not run correctly in conventional, is the base unplugged? The signal area is big enough to easily reach a locomotive some feet away from the TMCC trackage, for example unconnected test tracks on a table and a layout 4 feet away.

Usually its just easier to connect it to the U terminal on the transformer or controller. Whats important is that the wire from the base is connected to the outside rail. Not the center rail.

I'm curious, exactly how did you connect the base to the track?

I only have one oval of track, so to go conventional I unplug the base.  And when I first turn the track power on after running TMCC the locomotives sits for a long time with the headlight flashing before it goes solid and and sits in neutral.  Before I ever used TMCC when I applied track power the locomotive would sit for a second or two then head off in forward.  I do not have a plug tester, but I know the house inspector did and his report stated that only the bathroom plug wasn't grounded properly, which I asked the seller to fix before I bought the house, but I'm not going to run these in the bathroom anytime soon.

 

As for how I connected the base, I used a 2nd FasTrack terminal section and just connected the black lead to the base being I didn't have any other wires laying around I could use.

 

Tonight I guess I'll pull out more track and lay a loop in the family room and try it on the finished carpeted room instead of the unfinished back room.

Do the wall sockets have three prongs or two?  Does the third prong actually connect to anything?  My mom's old house had three prong outlets and two wires behind them.  TMCC uses the building wiring's ground wire for the other half of the antenna (one side goes to the outer rails of the track, the other to the ground wire for the house). If the house doesn't have ground wires or they are not installed properly the signal won't propagate correctly and you will see the blinking headlights and erratic behavior.  If you have one of these:

 

three prong tester

 

You can check to see if you have a good ground connection.  If you don't, you can pull the "ground side" of the signal off of pin 5 on the command base.  A couple of feet of wire should get you going and then you can worry about getting things fixed for real.

 

BTW, you can get the testers at almost any hardware store or big box home improvement store.  It was just easier to pull the image from Amazon.

They are all 3 prong, and like I said above, the house inspector I hired before I bought the house tested them all and said only the bathroom outlet didn't have a ground.  But that isn't to say how it's wired in the walls.  The path the wires take could be almost anywhere in the walls, and thus not in a TMCC compatible route.

 

As for pulling off of pin 5, do you mean pin 5 on the serial computer port of the command base?

If you have the manual for the BB, look to see what re-program code is to be used. If not set properly you will have problems running in conventional also.

 

Bill 

It's 4, and I can't even get it to allow me to enter it.  If it's set as ID 1, and I push, ENG then 1 then set, it does nothing.  If I push ENG then 15 then set the light blinks and whistle blows, but then it does nothing when I do ENG, 15, AUX1, 4.  I'm just hoping it's a bad base to locomotive signal issue that moving to a different room in the house will fix.  If not, I hope someone here live near me and will be willing to let me bring my babies over to get reset to work.  Still 5.5 hours before I can try again.

Okay, here is a video of the BB and TMCC.  Let me know what I'm doing wrong please.

 Sorry for the poor quality of the video, I guess I compressed it more than I needed to, but I didn't want it to be too big.

 

This may not make any difference, but I notice on your video that you are not actually turning the power on and off, but are using the throttle on your controller. Some controllers can still supply a small current even when at minimum setting.

 

Great job with the video. It really tells a lot.
I'm gonna say that the problem is with the locomotive. I am not familiar with k line engines so I can't say exactly what the problem is but at the very least you are gonna have to take the shell off the tender, re seat the circuit boards and check for loose connections. You might have to take the shell of the loco and do the same.
Hopefully someone who knows more about this engine can offer a more detailed explanation.

Does the CAB-1 issue beeps at EVERY key press?  If not then there is an issue with the CAB-1.  Try testing the batteries or just replacing them.  If the beeps are still MIA, then the keypad itself may be having problems.  You my have to open the unit up and clean the contact points on the board and the rubber nibs.  Rubbing alcohol and a lint free cloth should do the job.  

 

Check to make sure that the Command base is receiving the CAB-1 commands.  The red light on the base should blink when you send commands from the CAB-1.  If the light doesn't blink than there is something wrong between the CB and the CAB-1.

 

If all of the above checks out than the issue may be the actual receiver boards in the locomotive are not seated properly or have suffered some oxidation problems and are not making good contact with the pins on the main board.  This does happen and the cure is to reseat the boards, aka carefully remove the board from the socket and then replace it.  The action of pulling and reseating "cleans" the pins.

 

It does seem odd that the engine can respond to some commands and not others.

OK Sinclair,

TMCC is really quite simple if you read and FOLLOW the instructions:

!) Make sure the 3 prong plug is installed in a properly grounded outlet.

2)Make sure the wire from the base goes to an outside rail.

3)Carefully and exactly follow the detailed instructions given by Bob Bartizek and Chuck (first of his posts) above.

4) Double check to make sure you followed the steps EXACTLY as instructed without trying to second guess what to do next or taking any shortcuts.

5)Be patient!!!

jackson

 

EDIT:

Follow Chuck's and Flash's posts right above this for some great trouble shooting tips, but only AFTER you have followed 1-5 above.

Follow Chucks advice and check for a blinking light when you send a command. The whistle on your BB will not work, your first post you reported the horn on the G didn't work. I would suspect the whistle button on the Cab-1. Also I would try the other controller and see what happens. 

I have two Cab-1s and the locomotive behaves exactly the same way with either one.  The red light does blink when I push buttons, and the Cab-1 beeps.  I have had the tender shell off as I was swapping the power board when trying to fix my GG1, so most connections in the tender have been reset.  Does anyone know what voltage from the 9V is required for the system to work correctly?  Can a low or bad 9V cause this?  I have not had the Boiler off, but I might be doing it some time soon because for the 1st time I thought I heard something loose in it, but I haven't really checked to see if it was that or something on the outside like the linkages just moving around.  Yes, it seems weird that as long as I pick a 2 digit ENG ID, it'll take, but not a single digit ID.  But I only get most if not all functions if I use ID 1.

 

1)  Is there a way to check this with my multi meter?  When the house was inspected the guy had one of those lighted thingys to plug in and checks for ground, and he said they are grounded correctly.

2) It does as I tie it to the black lead of a FasTrack terminal section.

3) Have done so and the instructions in the manuals.

4) See 3).

5) I'm trying.  If it was just the TMCC that didn't work, I'd be okay since this was mainly an experiment to see how I liked it as I enjoy conventional running.  But now that my BB doesn't work right in conventional I'm flustered.  You know how everyone has their pride and joy of their fleet, well the BB is mine.  It was my graduation gift to myself when I finally finished college.  Needless to say without telling you my whole life story, and those that do know it agree, I earned this locomotive.

 

Now, I've been using the MTH Z-1000 and controller (Which does leave the track voltage at 0 when the knob is turned down.  I did check that to see what voltage I was getting both off and full throttle, 17.7V.) as it had a really long cord, and my CW-80 I normally use fan has gotten really noisy and I haven't been able to get the cover off to oil the fan.  But after getting ready for bed, my wife had to do something and I sat down and looked at the track and noticed my CW-80 in the corner.  For the heck of it, being I had already put the Z-1000 and command base away, I connected it and put the BB on the track.  I had sound with the smoke unit on!  So now I wonder if the MTH transformer is goofing the whole thing up.  So tonight I'll be trying it all again with my CW-80.  If it still doesn't preform correctly, then I'm going to post a new thread asking if anyone in my area has a working setup I can take my locomotives  and command stuff to to make sure it is the engines or the TMCC equipment I have or my house that is giving me the issues.

 

Thanks everyone for the help thus far.

Transformers often "leak" some voltage even when in the "off" position, that won't show on most home use multi-meters. This is enough to mess up programming - solution unplug transformer!!!! When the directions say "power off" that is EXACTLY what they mean, and not almost "off". Back to following directions exactly

jackson

if you are talking about the 9volt in the tender, it does nothing but keep sounds alive for a few moments when track power is removed so you can have shut down sounds. the 9volt is not needed for correct operation.

For What it is worth Try this.

Per Mike Reagan

 

K-line cruise equipped locos need "7", as this sets serial in conventional mode. W/O serial in conventional mode K-line cruise equipped locos will not run in conv. Mike

 

This was a response to a question I had about my K-line tank engine with cruise.

Boxcar bill suggested "4" . Mike said that it needed a "7" . I interpreted this to mean "74" as the reset code. Lo and behold, it worked.

also there is some documentation that suggests using "78"

and as Boxcar Bill suggested. If "74" doesn't work.

Try "78"

 

And if you search Gunrunner's posts, he has another K-line reset option for cruise. reset option.

Good luck

It doesn't have cruise.

Hi Sinclair,
I realized that after my post.

Another idea to try.
I had a Lionel mikado jr that would not reset.
Turned out that moving Run/Program switch back and forth several times cured the problem. Sounds like your switch may have not moved in several years.
Just enough corrosion to prevent the reset or save the reset.
Once you get an engine is, a soft reset with Aux O is often enough fix minor glitches like losing sound etc. happens more often than people think.

And I think it is normal for it to take more than a second for the loco to look for a TMCC signal.

Good advice, Ffffreddd.

jackson

I did do the AUX 0 a couple time when I first tried it, and it didn't help.  I will cycle the switch a few times tonight.  But you are right about it not having been used in a while.  I'm pretty sure I'm the 1st person to power this BB up.  Someone bought it and kept it in the box.  The 1st time it was ever out of the box was for photos on eBay.  And I bought it early last year from that eBay sale.

Well, I tried it with my CW-80, and I was able to get it back to ID 1 after half a dozen tries, but no reprogram.  But at least it seems to be working correctly in conventional with said CW-80.  So I'm going to ask for help from those in the east valley in the PHX metro area.

well, you are making progress.

know try it in TMCC without changing anything.

Power it up. and let it sit there.

Use the AUX1 3 command to turn on engine sounds, use Aux1 9 to toggle smoke. (Make sure switch is on and you have smoke fluid in it) use at least 10 drops and blow in the stack with a can of dust-off. I know it sounds weird but I do it all the time.

 

toggle Aux2 to turn headlight on and off. hit direction to see if backup lights works.

Throttle up slowly and keep your hand next to the CW-80 throttle. (Assuming command base is hooked to it.)

HALT is a joke if you do not have a good signal.

 

Then you will have a clearer idea of what is working and what is not.

And I find that Aux1 O works best when you address the engine by its ID. That way you are sure it is listening.

could you explain the above statement.

If the CAB2 isn't communicating with the base, the HALT key will do nothing.  Also, since the HALT key doesn't remove track power, it's not foolproof in any case.

Thx John. Same with Cab1

Just to verify the order it should be:

 

ENG 15 set

AUX1 4 set

you should hear the whistle each time you hit set.

 

Pete

Yep, if the base doesn't hear you, nothing happens.