New ZW-L User Review!

P.S. regarding the 620 watts total now advertised for the ZW-L.  I did the simple math E=IxR  to see what the numbers show.

 

After watching the product video on Lionel.com, they state that the ZW-L will put out a total of 36 amps. That is a max of 10amps per channel, and the last one gets only 6, until some is freed from one of the other channels.  So basically, at 18 volts per channel, we get 180 watts for channel 1, 2, 3, and 108 watts for the last one.  That adds up to 648 watts!  To get the 620 watts, each channel would be maxed at 17.25 volts.

 

Who knows what the wattage truly is?

Thanks for the review James. You definetly put some time and thought into it.

 

I really really do not have a need for it with my current setup. I really really really want one anyway; even if I just sit and look at it.

Nice review. In regards to the 620, it was announced over 6 months ago that they had to scale it back. Hopefully it wasn't a surprise to you Total voltage not sure, maybe Jon can step in and answer that.

Yes, I had seen the change in the watts a few months ago, I just wondered where it comes from, since each channel is labeled 180 watts, that is 720 total, but the video states 36 amps max, but that would be 648.  I just wondered if their math is off, or if the 620 is a conservative number, or the actual constant load.

P.S. Another note of interest, the ZW-L came with two blue Legacy modules with 1.4 on them.  I think I saw elsewhere that it was supposed to come with 1.5 but who knows.  I didn't need them as I already had 1.5 upgraded.  I'll probably just turn them into more black modules.

The ZW-L will "fold back" if 36 amps is exceeded.  Each channel is 180 watts output.  You just can't get 180 watts from all 4 at the same time.

When changing the position of the "cmd/conv" or 1-chan/4-chan" switches you must cycle the power using the on/off switch on the front. The processor only looks at those switches upon power up. Moving them without cycling the power is an exercise in futility! Once you cycle power properly the cmd base can still be connected to the base terminal, but the ZW-L will ignore it. Switch must be set to conv, then cycle power! Mike Lionel

hello guys..............

 

how about some pictures ? 

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany

I will get pics up tomorrow, I just got my account today.

Thanks Mike, I will try that too, but I think I already had shut-off the ZW_L when I tried to move back to conventional mode.  I will try and report back tomorrow.

1.4 was designed specifically for the ZW-L and is the minimum needed to use it. , When the ZW-L was delayed in production 1.5 was finished and available

NYCJames to run conventional only, you need to shut off the base unit. I doubt a switch on the command base wire will actually shut the signal completely off. Some people have had some luck running in command mode without the base hooked to the track at all. I expect you need a switch to shut off the power to the base for your children to run only conventional. Nice review thanks!!

Ron

Ok, here are some comparison pics with my ZWC and new ZW-L

I tried everything to switch from command to conventional mode with the ZW-L.

 

With the ZW-L connected to the command base using the special base post on the back of the ZW-L, I then shut down everything, ZW-L, base, etc. and threw the switch into conventional mode on the ZW-L.  Once powered back up, I have throttle lever control of the track voltage restored, but any TMCC engines will still sit there because the command base is still powered up and connected to the ZW-L.  If I disconnect the base wire, but leave the command base powered up, then the TMCC engines will respond as if in conventional mode when I move the throttle levers.

 

It would have been nice to allow the switch on the ZW-L to remove the TMCC signal and not require any further disconnects or shutdowns to go from conventional to command modes.  Why have the separate base post on the ZW-L then?

 

I will run a small toggle switch so I can disconnect the command base and revert to conventional mode with the throwing of two switches (three if you include the power cycling on the ZW-L).

 

In all, it still will be very easy to run conventional from the throttle handles in this manner, making very friendly for young or inexperienced operators.  Simply throw a few switches and power up, and viola! your running trains.  Much simpler than my previous method of powering up six bricks, the base unit, and addressing the TPCs and the ZWC to power up the track voltage and accessory bus.

Just to clarify, yes the ZW-L will ignore the commands from the command base when in conventional mode, however, the TMCC engines still "see" the signal so they do not respond to the conventional control (throttle level movements) until the base is turned off, or the base wire is disconnected from the outer rail.

 

In a way, this seems logical to me.  Namely, I would only plan to run a TMCC/Legacy engine in Legacy mode.  And I'd reserve the conventional mode for the rare times I'd need to run a conventional locomotive... for example like the upcoming LCCA Texas Tommy which wasn't produced with command-control electronics (unless I upgrade it at some future point).

 

Seems like a lot of flexibility built into the ZW-L... more to read up on and get familiar with before taking the plunge.  But it looks promising.

 

David

Good review, thanks for posting.

 

Can you comment on how the default for the voltage for all 4 handles behaves when controling the output voltage via TMCC or Legacy?  I'm not a fan of the ZW-C method for the inner handles (where they start up at max and then you have to dial them down).  The way the outers worked was much better (start at 0 volts and then dial them up).

 

I asked this at the Lionel booth a long time ago(at they time, the person I asked assume dit would be the same as ZW-C behavior), but I suspect it was so early in production that it could have mutated over the last 2 years. 

 

Thanks again for the review.

 

-Dave

 

A simple way to go from Command to Conventional using TPC 300/400 is to power up the units, press the "M" button and then press the set button. Then when you want to run conventional hit AUX1/8 which will apply 30% power to the track when you want to run conventional or AUX1/9 for full power when you want to run command.

Thanks Trainman9, you are correct that it is simple to move from command to conventional using the TPC300/400s, I just wanted it to be simpler for my daughter.  She can run and control stuff using the CAB1 or CAB2, but it is quite involved just to get everything going.  Once I turned on all the bricks and the command bases, then I would need to start addressing each track, i.e. TR1, TR2, and TR3 (for the accessory bus) and either chose conventional or command mode and set the power levels.

 

I wanted it to be very plug and play for my daughter, who just wants to run trains every now and again, and not have to remember such a drawn out process.  In addition, if a breaker tripped, or there were any problems, like you hit the panic button, we would have to reset a brick or two, depending, and then re-address the tracks and set power again.

 

Using the ZW-L, I simply select conventional mode, and flip the on switch.  Everything is ready to go.

 

I was hoping the ZW-L would work more like the TPCs in the way you can move from conventional to command with the L, and M keys.  I also hoped for the ability to use the Aux1 and Aux2 commands that are present in the TPCs, but alas, the ZW-L does not have them.

 

It is still not my ideal, but it is very friendly for us.  My daughter can jump right in and run conventional without having to worry about setting things up.  If there is a short, the breakers are right there behind the ZW-L, no more rooting around below.  Lastly, the lights on it remind her to turn off the power when she leaves.

 

When I want to run command mode, I just flip the switch and ensure I turn on the command bases prior to firing up the ZW-L.

Update on the available power.

 

Not that I would recommend this, but I did get one channel maxed out to 10 amps, it would make the red light blink as it reached the peak and then cut back.

 

I was pulling about 4 amps on my accessory bus and 3 amps on the other track bus, and there wasn't any noticeable lag in power to anything.  Even the track reaching max current did not shut down the whole layout or trip the breaker on that channel.  The red light would blink, the power would cut back slightly on that channel and then it would rise again.

 

Incidentally, I achieved this 10 amp draw using, two PW 736 steamers and one PW 2343 F-3 with dual motors.  I also place four lighted passenger cars on the track.  As the engines circled, I pressed the whistle button, this sent the amps way up there (since the whistle motors in the steamers need some good old TLC and servicing) but I really am finding it hard to reach the limits on this ZW-L.

 

I know the instruction video talks about the power folding and the protection devices in the ZW-L, but I just wanted to see how well it performed as compared to my old set up of six 180 watt bricks.  Before I had about 360 watts per channel, from my brick/TPC set up, but I feel like I would pop breakers far to easily on those.  I know I could never have kept running the set up above under the brick/TPC arrangement.

 

Hands down, the ZW-L seems IMO, to be very powerful and allows for the maximum output to be applied and maintained.

NYCjames, thank you for your thoughtful reporting!

I would normally run solely in command mode, most of my engines are TMCC or Legacy.  But my daughter just loves to run the trains and accessories, she doesn't need the complexity of TMCC/Legacy.  Yet I don't want to have to remove all my engines so she can run the layout.  Being able to flip a switch and start up in conventional mode, and use the throttles is the simplest method for quickly getting the trains running.  Even with the conventional mode, the TMCC and Legacy engines still operate very smoothly and can even be made to run slowly when desired, such as lining up the dump cars.

 

The ZW-L is not a bad way to go, especially if you need big power.

I had hoped for more in the command mode, expecting the inclusion of all the latest Legacy/TMCC bells and whistles, but it is lacking these cool features of the TPC300/400s.

I was hoping the ZW-L would eliminate the need for TPC's too. Specifically what features are lacking? Thank you for the review.

Great review and great discussion.  Thanks!

I hope someone can clarify this for me as I am confused. If I were to buy a ZW-L and wanted just conventional walk-around control from a Cab-1 or Cab-1L would I need anything other than the ZW-L and the Cab-1?

You would still need a command base.  The only tmcc device that a cab-1 can address/control directly are the powermasters.  Everything else gets commands from the serial line output on the command base or from the track signal.

 

regarding what's missing from the new zw vrs the tpc's are the PS1/PS2 macro buttons for triggering effects for these engines in conventional mode.

Got a question regarding the newest ZW-L....

 

I've got the previous model ZW with 4 bricks attached, CAB-1 and Legacy bases for my 4 loop Christmas layout in the living room (250 ft of track---had to send my wife on vacation while it was up in "her" living room <G>.  I run 8 trains at once (2 per loop -- no talking to the engineer while operating!!) so I needed pleanty of power.  I've been following this discussion of the ZW-L with interest as I would like to get rid of all those bricks for a simple, small footprint, transformer.

 

My question is this....can you switch the track from Command to Conventional by keying "TR 1-4" like I can now?   The reason is, I have a conventional 027 Polar Express train which I've converted the little steamer to CAB-1 using aftermarket electronics and it runs great in CAB-1.  I also have the Tom Hanks "announce" car which can only be triggered in "conventional" mode using the bell.  So what I do now is start the PE (and track) in command mode (all other locos are CAB-1 or Legacy) and when I want to trigger the "announce car" I just have to key "TR-3" which turns the track to conventional mode (without disturbing the command operating engine, mind you) and hit the bell button as often as I want to hear "All aboard, this is the Polar Express".  I can then address the PE engine and operate it.

 

So can this still be done with the new ZW-L....sorry for the long winded question, but I'd hate to sell all the bricks, etc., buy the new ZW-L and not be able to do this.

Chuck,

   Just to clairify I wouldn't need a powermaster that is now built in to the ZW-L?

What command base will work.  Will I be able to talk to engines using a cab 1 with only a legacy command base?  If so, only tmcc?  Thanks

Brad, functional equivalents of a PowerMaster is not the same as a rel PowerMaster in this case.  The original PowerMasters were released at the same time as The CAB-1.  Both devices communicate on the 27mhz frequency.  The only other device that can directly receive the CAB-1 commands is the original TMCC command base.  All other devices either use the track signal or the serial data port.

 

The PWC ZW can be controlled with a CAB-1 by way of the track signal generated by a command base.  It can also be controlled a Legacy CAB-2 and Legacy base by way of the track signal.

 

I forgot to mention, that while in command mode, you could feasibly run a conventional loco on the track, using the Red Dial to vary track voltage, while running a TMCC/Legacy engine on the same track.  Of course, any adjustment of the conventional engine's speed using track voltage, may have an effect on the TMCC engine (depending if it has cruise, and how much of a voltage change is made).

 

I had operated a couple times in this manner using TPCs, and two people could control two trains, one conventional and one command on the same track.  Mind you, the track was a large, flat oval so there was not a requirement to have drastic voltage changes for the conventional train to maintain spacing.

Gentlemen,

   Thanks much for the information, at this point I do believe I will add another

Z4K and run with a Z4K and an original ZW on each TIU, although I like the idea of the additional power of the ZW-L,  having another Z4K with a side receiver

opens more control options than adding a ZW-L. 

PCRR/Dave

Great review....thank you. I am likely going to get one. I just wished that the binding posts were modern like the one for the Legacy Base.

 

Peter

There's another thread about adding banana jacks to the ZW without modifying the transformer, perhaps that would remedy the deficiency with the binding posts?

For 2 loops on a 4X8 layout.  Is it just me or is this overkill?  Of course it's not, dummy.  If that's what you want, it makes perfect sense.  Enjoy, please enjoy.

NYCjames, thanks for taking the time to post your great review.

 

I run my trains using TMCC.  I've had my ZW-L for a couple of weeks now and have been very pleased with it.  It replaced two post war ZW's.  The ZW-L was easy to setup and program.   I've not had a problem and have been very pleased with the new transformer's performance.  IMHO the tranformer was well worth the cost.  Bo 

 

Visit my website Bo's Trains at http://www.bostrains.com        

NYCjames Excellent review. Recently I came back to this hobby and sometimes have a difficult following some posts. Yours was easy to follow. Maybe I have been back long enough now, or maybe it was you explaining how theZW-L simplified your layout. Please do more reviews. Last night, after reading your post, I did more research and I may make the purchase of a ZW-L. David56