NEWBIE -- START WITH S GAUGE?

Royce, I'm also relatively new to S scale, coming over from 2 railO and HO before that.  For me I'm quite happy with all of it.  Having said that, I'm excited about new builders coming into S hoping they pay some heed to us scale guys.  You may very much like what Lionel is bringing out, MTH as well.
One caveat, ready built S buildings are rare.  However, there are many HO buildings that can be used. 
The line of S Helpers switchers crawl better and run as well as any model loco I've seen in 31 years of modeling.
You will have your own 'druthers' and that will assist your decision making.  There are great folks here, much more enlightened than me who can give you good advice!  Good luck!

Royce, I'm also relatively new to S scale, coming over from 2 railO and HO before that.  For me I'm quite happy with all of it.  Having said that, I'm excited about new builders coming into S hoping they pay some heed to us scale guys.  You may very much like what Lionel is bringing out, MTH as well.
One caveat, ready built S buildings are rare.  However, there are many HO buildings that can be used. 
The line of S Helpers switchers crawl better and run as well as any model loco I've seen in 31 years of modeling.
You will have your own 'druthers' and that will assist your decision making.  There are great folks here, much more enlightened than me who can give you good advice!  Good luck!

Rusty, truly you are an outstanding resource for S.  my computer is down and I'm unable to give the kind of response, so clear and helpful, typing on an Iphone.
I am gratefull to you because I learn from your every response.  Thanks for your willingness to be so helpful!

Oooo, looks like I'm gonna need a bigger hat!

 

Thanks, John.  But, I'm just an average guy trying to give the straight facts as I understand them.  I'd rather see a new person make a decision about S, pro or con, without the cliche's and hype that some of my fellow S Scalers/Gaugers use. 

 

Who knows, if someone chooses not to join the S community now, they may decide to do so later.

 

Rusty

And a good part of their coming to S may be in the information you provide!
Speaking of which, hoe far apart are the railheads in Sn3?  I'm curious, I will have some Sn3, sooner rather than later as things turn out!
Thanks!

Well, I'm not into Sn3, came close a couple of times, but resisted. PBL's got some REALLY nice stuff.

 

However, being that were dealing with 3/16" to a foot, we'd be looking at 9/16" apart for three foot gauge.  I guess this is the best Sn3 inspiration I can locate, Paul Scoles Pelican Bay Railway & Navigation:

 

http://sn3photos.tripod.com/Train1.htm

 

Rusty

 The Short Answer is..........YES!

 S gauge is awesome. Al

The other guys have already given good advice; I'll just add my two cents worth ...

 

I would suggest that you start out with an inexpensive set or possibly secondhand equipment to try it out before you commit to a major investment in a new hobby.

 

How much space do you have for a layout? A major factor to consider.

 

Have you had any involvement with a club layout or friend's layout? That will give you some hands-on before you start buying your own trains. Or if you have a chance to go to a train show/swap meet, that's a good way to browse lots of different items and get a feel for prices and availability and to see what appeals to you.

 

S-scale is a great size in between HO and O, but it is also a much smaller segment of the hobby. I am not in any way putting down S-scale, but for a newcomer in the hobby it could be more of a challenge due to the more limited variety of items available.

 

O-gauge has its own quirks with 2-rail vs 3-rail, and tinplate vs scale. What I like about O-gauge 3-rail, there is lots of durable and affordable secondhand stuff available for someone like me who likes to repair old trains.

 

It all boils down to what appeals to you the most, your space for a layout, budget, what's available for you to buy, and your skill level for working with the equipment.

 

Through the years I have been involved with N, HO and O-gauge 3-rail. They all have their own advantages and special appeal. I just never had any S-scale come my way, and I don't need any further diversification now ...

 

Royce,

 

I recently switched back to S after 25 years in O.

 

If we're talking classic Flyer vs. Lionel, the first thing you'll notice is the trains themselves are more properly proportioned, both to S and to each other.  Flyer trains are smaller, but the curves are wider so most Flyer looks better on curves. 

 

Classic Flyer passenger trains look, IMO, much more realistic than Lionel's did.  The operating mail and express cars meant your passenger train could do more than just run around in circles.

 

I've had much better luck with Flyer operating accessories than I did with Lionel's, and re-issue Flyer accessories from both Lionel and MTH displaced the Lionel accessories on my old O gauge layout.  Eventually the trains themselves went, too . 

 

The downside to any vintage train is you need to be prepared to do repairs and a little more maintenance.

 

Modern Lionel-produced Flyer has can motors and electronic reverse-units, so there's no sticky reverse-unit issues.  American Models and MTH (formally the S Helper line) can provide the Flyer operator with locomotives with modern drive systems. 

 

Flyer can use the same transformers as Lionel, I'm using the MTH-Z-4000. 

 

For buildings, there's enough out there to build a layout.  Plasticville if you want the classic look, kit-bashed Plasticville, craftsman kits and the new generation of cardstock kits if you want scale/scale realism.

 

M2 Machines sells S scale autos. I'm using the minimally O gauge autos from K-Line and others since some Flyer accessories are larger than S scale.

 

Some folks do the classic toy train look, others hi-rail with the classic trains in a scale environment, and still others are pure scale.  Take a look as the NASG web site  for some great layout photos in scale and Flyer. 

 

As for scale (pure 1/64 with Kadee-type couplers) I'll leave the specifics to others, but I know that NMRA DCC is an option in scale.

 

S Publications include the NASG Dispatch and S Gaugian.

 

Whatever you decide to do, pick a theme, location or era and stick to it.  Beware of the trap of accumulating more than you need.   

Brady

 

I got into S Scale "accidentally" a few years ago. To me, the most frustrating thing is finding equipment in decent shape, especially vintage-style track (I don't like the "modern" track with plastic ties). Like someone else mentioned, it's not like you can just walk into a hobby shop and pick out what you want. It took me 8 months to find a 342 locomotive that was in decent shape and in my price range for example.

This year, my son wants a train under the Christmas tree so I got a Lionel Polar Express. What really struck me was the size. S scale looked huge to me coming from HO, but compared to O, S isn't all that big. I think you can get a lot more S Scale into a given space than you can with O, so to me that's the biggest advantage with 2 rail track being 2nd.

If scale is your thing, River Raisin makes some awesome steam locomotives in brass, and P-B-L narrow gauge locos are very nice too. If you like building locomotive kits, Railmaster has an extensive line of Sn3 steam.

EXCELLENT ADVICE !  

That can be excellent advice for any scale, from Z to G.

 

Advice I've been blissfully ignoring...

 

Rusty

I have an entirely different perspective in that I would not venture into S gauge as a start but rather O gauge as O gauge has far more products available to it.

 

A few years ago I purchased a vintage American Flyer train for my dad to replace the one long gone from his youth (as he got me into the hobby).   This originally was to be used only under the Christmas tree however he soon got the bug to get a permanent layout again.   Don't get me wrong - he really likes his layout, but he is always lamenting the lack of products when he visits and sees my O Gauge layout.

 

Bottom line, Brady, Ace and Rusty gave excellent advice as well and I'd like to say welcome to the hobby regardless of what scale you choose!

 

--Greg

You guys are a wealth of information!!

 

THANKS!

 

I'll admit, some of the abbreviations have me stumped so I'll have to do some research on your replies.  ;-)

 

Some followup questions/comments

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TRACK

 

In terms of layout or final goal ... I doubt I'll ever have a huge setup.  Probably right now I'd max out at 10x15-ish.  I think my biggest concern is finding track.  I've started with this little setup under my tree (see attachment) in O-gauge (because I received a Santa set as a gift).  With O-gauge being so plentiful, it was easy to find the pieces needed for that top and bottom extensions.  I'm not so sure I'd be as fortunate in S-gauge which makes me hesitant to make the switch; although I'd have no problem placing this O-gauge setup on eBay if needed to fund my beginning in S-Gauge.

 

Can you guys direct me to where you go for S-gauge track?  Maybe that will help.

 

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GAUGE/SCALE

 

Am I correct in thinking ... S-SCALE = true 1:64 while S-TRADIATIONAL = close to 1:64 but not exactly.  SCALE might be slightly larger than TRADITIONAL but for my beginner purposes, they're the same?

 

-------

 

Thanks again.  You guys are very helpful and I really appreciate it.

Royce,

 

One of the beauties of S Scale vs. O scale is that most (with the exception of Gilbert Flyer F9's, "Casey Jones" 4-4-0's and Frontiersman 4-4-0's) of the trains ARE S Scale.  The difference between Scale and Tradititional is blurrier in S than it is in O.

 

Generally, I would consider "Traditional" S Scale as anything produced or based off of designed by the A.C. Gilbert company.  The other companies like American Models, the former S-helper service and S Scale America produce scale models that are adapted to run on American Flyer tubular track.

 

The detail of Gilbert Flyer are what I consider "low resolution" in today's terminology.  Simplified details perhaps, but no less a scale model.  Many of us have converted Gilbert Flyer equipment (mostly freight cars) to scale operation with no appologies.  In some cases, just a new coat of paint, decals, scale trucks and couplers will do the job.

 

Now, as to track.  This is where being caught in the "S reboot" comes in. 

 

With the exception of hunting down old Flyer track, American Models has just about the only readily available track (curves, straights, switches, crossings, flex) right now.

 

S-Helper Service (now MTH) has the S-Trax system that had integrated track/roadbed (straight, curves, switches.)  MTH will continue to produce this track, but hasn't released any as of yet.

 

Lionel is producing their verion of FasTrak in S, currently only has straights and curves, with switches promised soon.

 

Both the Lionel and SHS/MTH track are compatible with a few swipes of a razor saw, there is a visual diference, but the geometries are the same.

 

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/4527055137442588

 

Then for scale track, there's Shinohora Flex and switches available from Scenery Unlimited and Tomalco.

 

I'm sure I lets some track compaies out, some of the other guy will hopefully chime in.

 

Rusty

I think Rusty nailed it.  I would only add that some traditional Flyer accessories are larger than S scale, some having been first produced before WW II when Flyer was making O gauge and 3/16" O (S scale trains adapted to run on three-rail O gauge track).  As the plastic accessories started to replace the sheet-metal accessories in the mid 1950's they seemed to get closer to S Scale. 

 

MTH and Lionel have re-issued many of the traditional Flyer accessories.  The 752A and 785 Coaling Towers have both been re-issued and are magnificent accessories.  Forget the Lionel #97

 

Brady  (who runs a lot of coal trains..) 

   

Here's a nice Flyer layout video that also has some O gauge for comparison..

 

 

 

Brady

I am primarily an "O" gauge guy, but dabble in "S" gauge from time to time. I've owned some American Flyer "S" gauge over the years. Most of my experience comes from making repairs.

So I look at American Flyer mostly from the serviceability aspect.

In my experience Flyer parts are a little harder to obtain than Lionel parts. I only know of a handful of outfits selling American Flyer parts. There does not seem to be the breadth of parts available. Perhaps this is because production of AF trains ceased somewhere around 1964-66, and was only made in a limited fashion during the modern era (until recently).  There are some reproduction parts available.

 

A few folks have mentioned American Flyer accessories. Many of them can be used with "O" gauge trains.

I collected and operated S gauge for 30 plus years before turning to O gauge. The reason I went to O was that there were clubs with operating layouts, so I could run on a big layout and interact with other people instead of playing alone in my attic.

 

Now, there are more S gauge club layouts being built and more opportunities for public and club operation. S gauge is coming into its own again.