Newbie Impressions / My first York

Carl,

One can find many of the items at York cheaper on ebay or what-have-you.   Those of us who have been going for several years have commented on seeing the same items for sale by the same sellers.  IMHO these sellers need a reality check. (I'm sure you will get comments that the sellers can ask whatever they want.  Yeah, well it doesn't sell at that price point!)

This York was probably the least I had spent ever.  Several factors include money being a little tight, I'm a bit more picky, and nothing overly tickeled my fancy.

I am already looking forward to the Fall show.

One thing I've learned to appreciate is the different tastes we all have.  If you view the discussions on what others have purchased, you see a wide variety (Standard Gauge, o-scall tinplate, postwar, mpc, modern steam-era, modern diesel-era, accesories, scenic supplies...). 

I also went to York for the first time. In some ways it's like what you'd get if you combined several local train shows into one huge show (and huge it was). There were several show discounts from dealers depending on what you were after, but some people were pretty firm in their prices.

On some items, a "deal" isn't likely to be had because of rarity. Talked to a couple of sellers and they had been hunting for the same item I was and hadn't been successful.

What I've found worked at meets is to wait until the last day because a lot of people don't want to haul all of that stuff back home. I got 25% off the asking price on a 2-rail Atlas reefer that I blundered across. Of course, your mileage may vary.

I think your observations are generally accurate.

quote:

I think the biggest surprise to me was the lack of what I would call great deals.

I am not surprised to find that there are few deals in the member halls. The folks in those halls are not running a business, where they have to turn over stock. They spent time packing up their stuff, traveling goodness knows how far, have to spend three long days at their table, and pay for food and lodging. Most of them are going to try to get top dollar (all reasons I don't get a table anymore).

Still, I managed to find a few pieces, and was happy with what I had to pay

York is a terrific show but the deals are in the dealer halls, generally speaking.  The member halls are fine for browsing and perhaps seeing something rare or interesting.  Typically, however, the prices are too high and this is why you will see the same people with the same product, show after show.  It is obviously their call, but if it were me, had I gone through the trouble to pack it up I'd price it so I'd not have to bring it home.

That is all definitely true.  A lot of the member halls you have some sellers who think they have gold.   Those are the same tables that have the same stuff York after York and lug their stuff back and forth to their vehicle. How they make any money or how it's even remotely worth it escapes me. Most of those trains get more highway time then they'll ever see track time! 

From my perspective, Prices Friday morning are very different from Saturday morning.  Also, most items are priced incorrectly and negotiations are needed to agree on a final price.

Just my thoughts.

Ron

Yes, you don't want the self-appointed forum "scolders" on your case.

I've attended York on and off since the mid '80s, and your points are valid. Yes, it's amazing that you sometimes can't find a common item (in my case, a excellent condition postwar 2457 Lionel metal caboose, which I finally got on eBay), yet 3 dealers are offering something I never saw before. As far as "paper" goes...magazines, especially, are heavy, take up a lot of room, and provide low income. Same reason you don't find much in the way of used track. In general, I never considered York a place for bargains. IMO, York provides a place to see things up close and in person (a great example is the Scenic Express booth).

I was thinking the same thing about the deals at this particular York. I did find a MTH Premier CNJ Camelback for $650 in the Gold Hall. Had it been the scale wheel version I would have pulled the trigger on that. The only thing I got in the member halls was a box of '70s Atlas 2 rail track. The box had enough curves for a circle, 6 straights and 2 switches for $20. I just saw 1 straight on eBay for $4.75. I only had time to go through one member hall. In the one of the dealer halls my friend got 3 MTH PS2 locomotives for $125 each. Each had less than 10 minutes run time on them. The dealer was blowing them out because they have the 5 volt boards.

Matt, I saw you near the MTH booth and I was going to introduce myself but I was coming down with something and I didn't want to get you sick. The next morning I had a slight fever. 

Overall I had a great time as usual. 

Carl........it is so variable.......sometimes the deals are sparse, and others, you can't have enough money for all the stuff that is a great buy.

This year I spent very little......what I saved goes into the "fund" for next time.

Peter

Yes, I meant to say that about the dealer halls in my original post.  Just about every dealer took *something* off their price. Very easy and friendly about it, too!

I also appreciated the point about seeing something up close.  Even photos don't always do something justice. As an example, when everyone was talking about the 115th Anniversary Silver Berk, I thought, "big deal; a plated, skinny 736 berk..."  WOW, was I wrong once I saw it. That loco is beefy all around!  So, yes, being there definitely helps you understand what your mind might be thinking...

In general I have not found great deals on Post War at York. There were a few but not many over the years. OTOH I have found some great deals on modern era, 1990-present.

A few that I saw but did not buy, Lionel Odyssey 4-6-0 200 bucks or BO, Lionel Odyssey 2-8-0 180 bucks. Lionel 1990 700E with case and caboose 300 bucks. Newest release MTH Premier Dreyfuss Hudson for 850, much lower than pre order or online discount price.

Many more over the years.

Pete

Carl,

This was a very insightful post, thanks for sharing.  I've yet to make the trip to Mecca (I mean York) even though it is only about 1.5 hour drive away, but I've always wondered about the economic side of York.

I would like to go, but reading posts like this help those of us understand what to expect when we finally get there, so again, thanks for posting.

Best...Rich

I have said many times that one of the best assets of the York Meet are the cottage industry guys that you will not find anywhere else. This alone is worth attending. In our case, the only items we purchased that you place on a track were two 21" K-Line passenger cars. And we got those at a great price.

This Meet was no exception to having a wonderful time. You get to speak with the leaders of our industry directly, and if you left not having a good time, well you better see a doctor quickly.

Glad you had a good time, York is a great place to meet new people that over time become friends. On another thread check, cash & CCs were discussed and those that knew said repeatedly Take CASH.

Okay first never been to York but is on my bucket list. With that said here is what I have picked up over the years. yes a lot of stuff you can find on auction site cheaper but can you actually look at it be for you buy it and examine it? Have you seen if the seller will work with you on the price some? Yes on the auction site you can still return but do you want the hassle of doing it? The big thing I have always hear is look under there tables for items in boxes which may not be there big ticket items it might be what you want but because they have more big ticket items there trying to sell first it might be in a box below. 

These are all tips I have heard from others who go there. 

My point also you can probably test run it there somewhere the auction site runs forward/reverse/neutral as suppose to but don't tell you it's grinding not trying really stick up for the vendors there as I'm a auction seller but just some things to think about. as I have gotten burnt from other auction sellers. 

Glad you plan to return as I have a few problems right now but sure will be looking at going as soon as there out of the way. 

It was my first time also and you make excellent points. Really had to search in member halls and a lot seemed overpriced... Until Saturday about 10:00. Then cash talked pretty good.

it was a lot of fun and we plan to be there again in October. Will need to pick up a turntable, track, etc and saving mailing cost is a great excuse to go.

We found the food to be good at some of the nicer restaurants and less than in Tidewater, Virginia. Everywhere we went, people could not have been any nicer.

Thanks for your observations. I hope that we get to meet in October.

This was my second York. I found the two things I had on my list; I got a great deal at a vendor on one, and got a fair price from a member/seller for the other (both passenger sets). Because I really don't have an LHS near either of our houses, I used York as my LHS.

So the wife and I shopped for scenery, unique items etc., and had great (too much) success. But this second York was far better than the first (neither was "bad").

As far as deals, we will typically ask for a deal if we are buying several items from a seller/vendor. We walked away with some great deals. Saturday is definitely "let's make a deal" day, if you are really after deep discounts.

My take would be not to judge the meet after your first visit; but like Matt said, "your mileage may vary."

Bruce

There were definitely deals to be had, depending on what you were looking for. I also saw prices for items that were all over the place! Then again, I've been noticing that for the last 5 or so years (since the economy went down).

My second York.  I thought that asking prices were high in the member hall.  Higher than at the Dupage show in the Chicago area, which I attend a couple of times a year.  Pre-war and Marx in particular were high and the pre-war did not seem to be moving.  I was thinking that with the economy improving, everyone was bumping it up.  There was some marking down Saturday.

Prices were all over the map on an individual item.  For example I was looking at Post-war 681.  I saw them from $135 to $450, with little difference in condition, most were $225.  Since individuals are pricing these, I guess it is not too surprising.

I found some bargains, but you really need to know a lot about the price of items you are looking for.  The most expensive stuff was Marklin.

Bill

Member of future layout club

Maybe someday I can go to York, just for the simple reason of making the trip...ya know- "been there-done that-got the T Shirt"

Train shows in my area can have prices all over the board. Makes me think of a guy I know that had a New Lionel milk car & set up, he wouldn't budge on his price, and I seen him, (you guessed it) and his milk car at the next three train shows...

I am a "boxes under the table" kind of guy. Cars for a few bucks, stuff I can bash or practice on without feeling too guilty.

Someday I hope-

Well, as I stated right up front in my post, I had a blast. It far exceeded expectations; the fact that some things were less than I would have thought didn't ruin a thing.  I guess I was kind of assuming that if it wasn't at York, it didn't exist.

Didn't really need the anniversary set; I priced it where I would have bought it just for sentimental reasons and was away from a connection as the timer ran out. Oh well; not losing sleep over it.  No, I didn't expect to find them for $78, but I would have expected closer to $150 (wouldn't have bought one anyway...).

Saw lots of parts vendors for everything from AF to restoration. I just thought some of the more popular K-Line parts might have been offered by *someone*.

Sorry if I misconstrued something (can't read my OP as I'm typing this...), but I'm definitely not in the market for rarities.  Oh, now I remember; I was just making a snarky comment about folks pricing their relatively common items as *IF* they were rarities.  Fully understand making a buck, but by the same token, if the overall market has changed such that (insert time period here) items aren't in much demand, either sit with them or price them to move.

And I fully agree with "buy it if the price is right, cuz it'll be gone the next lap thru." Did that and had no regrets, even if I found others slightly lower in price. I had my prize, so I was smiling.

You are 8 hours away driving, is not that easy but you are my guest in the next October meeting.

Andre.

I went pretty much pat.  I figure if I see a really great bargain on something I didn't expect, I'll jump on it.  Last few meets I found some 3 rail scale freight cars and then stumbled into the new Railchief + locos at Nicholas Smith for a good price.  

This time I only wanted some Lionel smoke fluid.  But I always like the Lionel display to stimulate the "I'm gonna get it" juices flowing.  It hit with the Legacy 0-6-0 switcher and  ten wheeler.  I preordered both of them, my first preorders.  I guess Lionel's built to order finally got me. 

So my wife thought I left with a full pocket of cash but little did she know the end result was over a grand... ha.

It's always a fun time at York but it would be nice if the weather would be a little nicer. 

This was my second trip to York, (my first trip was about 18 or so years ago), and I gotta tell ya, I was overwhelmed!   I recently returned to the hobby after retiring from my career in law enforcement and I thought York was the place to be.  WOW!  What a difference 18 years makes!   Even my wife commented how awesome it was.  As far as deals were concerned, I did very good in the Orange Hall but even some of the dealers there had prices higher than could be had on line even with shipping figured in.  I got a real good deal on several K-Line Die Cast 4 bay hoppers from a gentleman in the Blue Hall as well.  I believe the key to a "deal" is to have knowledge of the current market price point and what you are willing to spend relative to that price point to add the item to your collection. The "Bay" is a fairly good indicator of what an item is worth but do not forget to factor in shipping.  Just my 2 cents but I had a GRRRREAT time and the wife and I will return in the fall.  I've already started my October York Savings Account!

Chief Bob (Retired)

I've been to York probably 5 times in the last ten years. I have "scale" 3 rail O Gauge, and scale O gauge 2 rail traction (nice thing about trolleys is that one car constitutes a train). Anyhow, I find going there is kinda like going on a vacation and buying a few souvineers. You feel like buying something because you made the trip. You really need to know your prices going in and you should have at least a rudimentary idea of what you want. The best deal I ever got was from a young man selling his deceaesd dad's train collection. He was there to get rid of things, and he wanted to get done with it. I got a NIB. Bachmann Peter Witt for $75. I tried to give him some ideas for pricing on his other items. He was totally unfamiliar with their values.

I always get tired of the folks who cart around the same old stuff, show to show. I don't know how they do it. Almost like living the carnie life.

Anyhow, I agree that dealers usually present the best opportunity. Also, it's a great place to find that weird little part you need to fix something. But my greatest  pleasure is looking in the nooks and crannies for oddball items such as long discontinued kits.

My brother and I usually go (leaving potentially bored spouses behind). We stay at the Red Caboose motel in Strasbourg, where we check out the steamer there and also the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum). We have sometimes made the jaunt to Altoona, PRR Heaven, and spent time at Horseshoe Curve. Pennsylvania to me is the heart of railroad interest. So much to see there.

I'm somewhat new to the train world.  I got into the hobby two years ago and started my first layout this past winter.   This was my first TCA show.  I took my two boys with me.  We really enjoyed it.  We were there from 9 to 6:30 on Friday.  I found some great deals on a couple of items on my wish list.  I got a Premier Heritage Unit at a great price.    I was very disappointed that they did not have a better selection of MTH buildings.  I wanted to buy about 10 of them.  I ended up with 2.   Every dealer had the same buildings.   However; the deals on my locomotives and Lionel accessories made up for it.

My boys did comment that there wasn't a lot of young kids at the event.   However; they personally loved it.  

I came across a couple of very grumpy vendors.  They seemed to be very annoyed my boys were looking (not touching) their merchandise.  I've taught my boys to be very respectful of property when going to these types of events.   If they are trying to attract younger people to the hobby they should work on their customer service skills.    We moved on and made our purchases elsewhere. 

I made one stupid purchased!  I bought the Lionel Scrambler and it was WAY too large for my layout.  LOL.  I'll be taking it to my local dealer this week on a trade. 

Great time.   I'll be going back!

One more thing....I talked to Mike Wolf about technology (I'm in the software business) for about 10-15 minutes very early in the morning on Friday.  I had no clue who I was talking to at the time.   That tells you how new I am to the hobby!   I saw his picture on a Facebook post over the weekend and laughed.    Really nice guy.  

After 35 years of attending York, I can say from experience, if your going there looking for bargains on anything other than new product being sold by one of the big store dealers, your going to be mostly disappointed. Prices at York are always HIGH. It was my gripe from my first attendance that people seem to ignore grading, find the largest number in the guide, and double it.

Second, using an auction site as a guide is plain foolishness. In my many years of selling, I find that buyers on auction are generally not willing to pay what it takes to get the good items they need for the collection. They will forever be searching garage sales and small meets looking because the unicorn does not exist. Looking for Excellent but not Mint items at Fair condition prices is also fruitless.

York is the type of meet where you go to meet people you would likely not ever meet in your normal train searches, and to try to find the elusive piece you just cannot find at local shops, shows, or on auction. But you better be willing to pay a fair price or better for it if you do find it.

Tin

Very good points, Tin!

First time to york relative newbie but learning fast didnt really expect deals since i had been to some greenberg shows but i had a GREAT time got an amtrak set i used to ride to school no great bargain but less than it sells online and it was new.  Building diorama table incredible got 3 of those, some cheap spookytown stuff, i think sat prices better. BILLs comment was  right on i got a big kick out of how same item so drastically changes prices table to table some of these guys are alittle out of touch.  HIT HErshey chocolate world on way home, best deal of weekend was at wilson leather store at outlets near hershey!  I LOVED YORK

Although for many of us it is not possible, it really pays for the bargain hunters to hit the White and Red member halls when the York meet opens on Thursday.

These halls tend to have more folks thinning their collections or are perhaps paying for their hobby by selling a few things to buy more stuff. Always exceptions, there are small businesses here too.

The bargains go fast and there are also other dealer folks trying to make larger purchases of the bargain items to restock their businesses. I see this almost every York, where someone has cleaned out someone's reasonably priced nice items, for resale, not their own use. Not saying this is wrong, just that it happens.

As for "deals", it's really a matter of what you were looking for. The last item I bought was a RPO car built from a kit. It was very well done. I had $x cash left in my wallet. My thought was, if I don't ask I'll ever know. I offered it to the seller. The first response was "no thanks". I thanked him for his time and tucked my cash back into my wallet. As I was about to walk off, he changed is mind. I now have a beautiful car to add to my consist and am grateful to the seller for a wonderful deal.

As for the member halls, there are folks that have been hauling that stuff to York for years. I am convinced that there are many that could care less if they sell anything. IMHO, it's their business.

You raise an interesting point.  As in, why the red & white?  Why not blue & silver?  Or, does Eastern Division grant squatter's rights to allow a member seller the opportunity to book the same table event after event, such that red & white have more of the "first timers" or "occasional" member sellers?

No issue; just curious; sounds like a good strategy; thanks for mentioning!

Carl,

does Eastern Division grant squatter's rights to allow a member seller the opportunity to book the same table event after event, such that red & white have more of the "first timers" or "occasional" member sellers?

That is exactly correct!

You raise an interesting point.  As in, why the red & white?  Why not blue & silver?  Or, does Eastern Division grant squatter's rights to allow a member seller the opportunity to book the same table event after event, such that red & white have more of the "first timers" or "occasional" member sellers?

No issue; just curious; sounds like a good strategy; thanks for mentioning!

Just my unscientific observation, although some sellers have the same table meet after meet, so there must be that option available to them.  

Also if you miss a meet you can receive your same table the following spring or fall.

Jack

By default, people are assigned the same tables show after show. One does not need to ask. In fact, I guess you'd have to ask to be moved.

Now that, in and of itself, is one of the gem "insider's tips" to be gotten from this discussion!  All I knew was dealer (orange / brown / purple) vs members (blue / silver / red / white).

I'll start out red / white from now on!!