Nickel Plate Road 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!

Oh no!  That's my favorite engine at the museum in Strasburg!

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It will be great to have another NKP Berk back on home territory.  Can't wait for it to happen!

It would be mind blowing to have the 765 tow the 757 home! Having the 757 in Bellevue is a good thing as the 757 was deteriorating in its current location.

The Berks sure are pretty !!  Hate to see the Pa. museum lose it but it is great that it is going home. I am sure there will be much rail fan interest as it travels to Bellevue !!

If 757 is such an egregious case of "this doesn't belong", then surely wouldn't this loco be far more a case of the same?

Well, the V&T locomotive was built in Philadelphia............

its a win-win for everybody....

Jim Berger posted:

its a win-win for everybody....

Agreed.  The V&T locomotive is preserved indoors and will last in theory forever.  The Berkshire was always an oddball in the yard outside.  It is certainly a great locomotive and it will it will be nice too see it in context. 

Rick Rowlands posted:

...... “The people of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania have been great to work with on this project and toward the common goal of preserving our country’s railroad heritage,” Beamer added. ......

thanks for the news Rick.

Bobby Ogage posted:

It would be mind blowing to have the 765 tow the 757 home!...

Oh my God, NO!

Strasburg, PA to Bellevue, OH at 25 mph? With dozens of stops en route to check things on the 757? That's a 3 to 4 day move!

NO THANKS!!

OGR Webmaster posted:

Bobby Ogage posted:

It would be mind blowing to have the 765 tow the 757 home!...

Oh my God, NO!

Strasburg, PA to Bellevue, OH at 25 mph? With dozens of stops en route to check things on the 757? That's a 3 to 4 day move!

NO THANKS!!

Agreed that just sounds ludicrous.

I would like to see 765 there when the 757 was presented as completed with its cosmetic restoration though. 

The berkshire steam locomotive is one of my favorite locomotive type.I love the idea of one of 765 sisters coming back.I hope every thing works out.

Does the Mad River still have PRR 4666, the "doodlebug"?

An iced keg of beer would make for a better trip.

Can you get from Strasburg to Bellevue without using CSX?  If not, it would have to be loaded on a flatcar!

Kent Loudon posted:

Can you get from Strasburg to Bellevue without using CSX? 

Apparently yes, as that is why the locomotive will be moved dead, just like when NS moved the Y6a "dead-in-tow" from the St Louis Museum to Roanoke.

If not, it would have to be loaded on a flatcar!

 That would result in a load way too high for the overhead wires on that NS/Amtrak line just outside the PRR Museum.

Brings up an interesting question unrelated to how the locomotive is going to Bellevue.  Will the Strasburg RR do the honors of getting it to Amtrak's Keystone Corridor?  Strasburg has a history of using it's own locomotives to pull pieces to the museum in the past.  Would make for some great photo moments.  With Amtrak's schedule on the Keystone Corridor of eight trains daily to NYC, I wonder if it will be a night move.

GG1 4877 posted:

Brings up an interesting question unrelated to how the locomotive is going to Bellevue.  Will the Strasburg RR do the honors of getting it to Amtrak's Keystone Corridor? 

Yes, as that is the ONLY way to interchange with NS.

Strasburg has a history of using it's own locomotives to pull pieces to the museum in the past.  Would make for some great photo moments.  With Amtrak's schedule on the Keystone Corridor of eight trains daily to NYC, I wonder if it will be a night move.

Certainly sounds logical. 

J Daddy posted:

Maybe moved by truck?  

Nope.

The Strasburg RR  brings  NS freight cars in to their place for customers off the mainline and make $$.  Whether the track would support that kind of a load, I don't know. the museum has a lot of heavy equipment so they got it in somehow.

jim pastorius posted:

The Strasburg RR  brings  NS freight cars in to their place for customers off the mainline and make $$.  Whether the track would support that kind of a load, I don't know. the museum has a lot of heavy equipment so they got it in somehow.

As a direct result of their freight business, and the VERY heavy loaded freight cars, the SRR had a new, heavy duty concrete overpass built, in order to handle such "heavy loads". The empty/drained NKP 2-8-4 would be no problem at all.

Hot Water posted:

jim pastorius posted:

The Strasburg RR  brings  NS freight cars in to their place for customers off the mainline and make $$.  Whether the track would support that kind of a load, I don't know. the museum has a lot of heavy equipment so they got it in somehow.

As a direct result of their freight business, and the VERY heavy loaded freight cars, the SRR had a new, heavy duty concrete overpass built, in order to handle such "heavy loads". The empty/drained NKP 2-8-4 would be no problem at all.

Not to mention the fact that a majority of the equipment that came to the RR Museum of PA came via the Strasburg Railroad.  1223 hauled a GG1 back in the 70s to get a bearing fixed in their own shops.  It is a very capable small road.

The fact that the locomotive has been donated to the Bellevue museum is great news! Now comes the hard - and EXPENSIVE - task of moving the locomotive from Strasburg to Bellevue.

In round numbers, it's 500 miles from Leaman Place (the point where the Strasburg would interchange the 757 to NS) to Bellevue. NS will handle this as a "Special Train" and bill it at the Special Train Rate of somewhere just over $100 per mile. That's $50,000+ for just the NS portion of the move. Why so expensive? It will be a 25 mph train on a 50 to 60 mph railroad, thus holding up traffic behind it for several days and hundreds of miles. Scores of other trains will be delayed and miss their delivery times because of this single move. It cannot go on a flat car because the main line at Leaman Place is under wire all the way to Harrisburg. There is not enough overhead clearance to the wire.

Trucking it would be at least this expensive, if not more. In fact, getting it out of Strasburg on a truck may be impossible. The small towns in that part of Pennsylvania are built with structures very close to the streets, the streets are narrow and the turns are tight because the buildings are so close to the streets.

It will be another 5-figure number just to get the locomotive ready for the move. All the air lines on this locomotive have long since corroded and rusted away. They all have to be replaced. The air brake system has to be made operative. Given how long this engine has gone without any care or maintenance, the entire air brake system will have to be removed, dismantled, cleaned, parts replaced as needed, tested, stenciled and put back in service.

Yes, this is a great thing to be sure. But it's a long and very expensive way from Strasburg to Bellevue.

Rich,

We discussed those very same issues when we last saw the 757 in Strasburg.  The cost of the special train move, air brake and mechanical work, logistics were all discussed and our figures were just about about what yours are.  We very wisely reached out to Zach Hall and Dan Pluta who will be heading up the mechanical and air brake work, with Kelley Lynch assisting with the marketing and PR end of things.   MR&NKP wanted the best people that we could get to help this move go as smoothly as possible. 

If you are working with Zach, Dan and Kelly, you are dealing with some good and knowledgeable people. All my best to you and this effort!

It's funny to read these things sometimes and realize how few people seem get the underlying message: It's still sitting in the same spot and it's going to take a boatload of money to get it somewhere else, let alone do any manner of restoration to it.

Bobby Ogage posted:

It would be mind blowing to have the 765 tow the 757 home!

I can't see that. But how about this?

But really, does it matter how 757 gets there?

>>It cannot go on a flat car because the main line at Leaman Place is under wire all the way to Harrisburg. There is not enough overhead clearance to the wire.

Could the boiler superstructure  be separated from the running gear  to create 2 loads?  Would need HEAVY cranes.  Would need bags of $$$$$!

>>I was told by CSX that the bearings may catch on fire on their portion of the trip (1,500 feet)!!  Really??

Let's face it, CSX will bend over backwards to find an excuse!  They have a herd of lawyers and engineering people compiling a long, long list  of excuses.  Moving a steam loco on their tracks would be  more difficult than moving nuclear fuel!

Kent

Kelly Anderson posted:

...I was told by CSX that the bearings may catch on fire on their portion of the trip (1,500 feet)!!  Really??

Utter nonsense, spoken by someone who has absolutely no clue about the history of their own industry. 

Every railroad in the world ran plain bearing locos and freight cars for over 150 years, at speeds over 100 mph in some places.

I think I would be safe in saying that a friction bearing running at 10 mph (or less) has never caught fire in 1,500 feet of movement. It is ridiculous.

OGR Webmaster posted:

Kelly Anderson posted:

...I was told by CSX that the bearings may catch on fire on their portion of the trip (1,500 feet)!!  Really??

Utter nonsense, spoken by someone who has absolutely no clue about the history of their own industry. 

Every railroad in the world ran plain bearing locos and freight cars for over 150 years, at speeds over 100 mph in some places.

I think I would be safe in saying that a friction bearing running at 10 mph (or less) has never caught fire in 1,500 feet of movement. It is ridiculous.

Rich is absolutely right! Whenever this subject comes up, I'm always prompted to inquire, "How many of their diesels have plain/friction bearings in the running gear?". Invariably the RR person answers, "None!", at which point I inform them that every single EMD and GE locomotive equipped with DC traction motors in their entire fleet, has TWO "plain/friction" oil lubricated bearings, which support the traction motor on every driven axle! I then inquire, "How often do THOSE support bearings fail & burn up?".

In my opinion, it would just be better if the management folks (Mechanical Dept. or otherwise) on today's railroads would just say "No", without an intelligence insulting explanation behind their arbitrary reasoning.

Hot Water posted:

In my opinion, it would just be better if the management folks (Mechanical Dept. or otherwise) on today's railroads would just say "No", without an intelligence insulting explanation behind their arbitrary reasoning.

 

Funny, while reading these silly excuses, that's exactly what I was thinking.

That said, people don't react well to absolutes. Everyone wants an exception for just them and I assume these ill-informed excuses are an attempt to provide an 'answer' for something that no answer will explain. The funny part is anyone being told this stuff probably knows the mechanics of such things as well (if not better) than the person making the excuse.

p51 posted:

Hot Water posted:

In my opinion, it would just be better if the management folks (Mechanical Dept. or otherwise) on today's railroads would just say "No", without an intelligence insulting explanation behind their arbitrary reasoning.

 

Funny, while reading these silly excuses, that's exactly what I was thinking.

That said, people don't react well to absolutes. Everyone wants an exception for just them and I assume these ill-informed excuses are an attempt to provide an 'answer' for something that no answer will explain. The funny part is anyone being told this stuff probably knows the mechanics of such things as well (if not better) than the person making the excuse.

Exactly, i.e. the railroad person making the "excuse" generally is clueless! A perfect example was the reasoning behind the Burlington Northern not allowing the UP 844 and SP 4449 operation over BN trackage from Seattle, WA to Vancouver, BC, in order to attend the big "Steam Festival" (back in the late 1980s, I think). The BN "executive" explained, even to the inquiring media, that "Steam locomotives damage the signaling systems!".

>>The BN "executive" explained, even to the inquiring media, that "Steam locomotives damage the signaling systems!".

Sounds like something a railfan might dream up! 

Kent Loudon posted:

>>The BN "executive" explained, even to the inquiring media, that "Steam locomotives damage the signaling systems!".

Sounds like something a railfan might dream up! 

A "railfan" would NOT have stated something THAT stupid!!!!!!

Hot Water posted:

The BN "executive" explained, even to the inquiring media, that "Steam locomotives damage the signaling systems!".

Good Lord.

Where do these numb skulls come up with this crap?

OGR Webmaster posted:

Hot Water posted:

The BN "executive" explained, even to the inquiring media, that "Steam locomotives damage the signaling systems!".

Good Lord.

Where do these numb skulls come up with this crap?

Aliens 

Bryan Smith posted:

Aliens 

LOL! It must be, Bryan. Or they think the general public is genuinely stupid and will buy anything they make up.

NKP 765 has run almost 100,000 miles on various signaled railroads around the country, including running with functional cab signals on certain parts of Norfolk Southern. More recently, she ran on Metra with functional cab signals. The locomotive has never caused a signal malfunction or "...damaged..." the various signal systems in any way. I'm sure the fellas with the 611, 261, 4449 and other main line steam locomotives could all make the same statement.

Ridiculous...