@Mark Boyce posted:Bill, the paint job looks great!
... Without an actuator to open them, you would have to do it by hand anyway, which isn't objectionable anyway.
Thanks!
A little tinkerin' and thinkerin' plus a 3D printer could eliminate that hand actuation maybe.
Looks like I got something to do while I wait for the paint to dry!
Today I went and got my coal. I decided to use the abrasive coal slag from TSC. It looks great in my opinion! My favorite part is how easily it slides out of the fish belly hoppers like the real deal.
Now I'm going to do some thinking out loud.
I've been resisting the idea of going with a helix at the nothern end of the layout to connect the bottom and top level because I felt like it was a waste of space where cool things could be modeled. That was before I started collecting hoppers with opening hatches in the bottom. Now I'm thinking the helix would be perfect because it would be a lot easier to build than a custom lift like I had planned on. It also means that when the hoppers empty at the steel mill, that load could easily be funneled down through the helix, out of sight, and go into the coal mine on the lower level where I can then fill hoppers again. This would allow for continuous operation and I'm very excited for this possibility. A guy by the name of nsmodeler24 on youtube has a similar setup involving a rotary dumper but I couldn't find the video showing them connected. Life and work have been beating me down pretty hard lately for whatever reason so it will be nice to sit down on Anyrail with the dog and just work out the plan for the next few nights while I try to catch some downtime without any surprises. My only concern is the weight of a coal drag going through a helix. I'm not concerned at all about motive power. It would just be a biblical mess if the hoppers stringlined on the helix!
I'll post the track plan when I get it figured out.
It sounds like a good idea, but I agree I don't know how many cars and how much power it would take to pull them up the helix. You can work on Anyrail and if you think that is the way you want to go, then I suggest you build a small temporary setup to try out the idea. That is how I learned I could pull my short trains up a 4% grade. I built one on the floor and tries every engine on it.
I don't have anything to show for improvements but it's been nearly a month and I still gotta burn 15 minutes at work.
I worked out how much carpeting I need. Now I need the Norgeville Railroad board of investors to fork over some cash haha
I'm working on modeling and prototyping those models on the 3D printer since carpet isn't in the budget. The current item is the car dumper for behind the blast furnace. It might be dumping ore, might be coal, should be coke or limestone but whatever; the end goal is to push hoppers (fish bellys) up to the high line and dump them at the furnace. Atlas and MTH 55ton fish bellys have opening doors and my hand tests show the coal mostly falls out. It might need a little help but that can be solved later. I will need to convert the MTH hoppers to be spring loaded like the Atlas. MTH doors lock open and closed where the Atlas doors are held shut by a torsion spring. I'm having trouble sourcing the springs but I'll get there. I got a place to make custom springs since I couldn't buy them from Atlas but I need to get my measurements and whatnot figured out. I don't know the nomenclature for how to call out spring dimensions.
Either way, I cut the ties out of the track and it sets down into the top of the dump station. Then two axles are connected via gears on the outside. The axles have one finger each. The axles turn and the finger pushes the door open and the coal empties. I'll see about getting some pictures up when I get home of the rough prototype. It works. It just doesn't work well.
That's pretty much the extent of the excitement. I have decided to go with the helix for a number of reasons. The top reason is that the helix will be under the blast furnaces so I can hide the coal falling through the table and going back into the coal mine on the lower level. This will (hopefully) give me hands off coal loading and unloading. That should be a good time and I'm excited to be able to do that.
But it does change the entire dynamic of the layout. Half of the top level just opened up. Do I put a different industry at the end of the table where the coal mine was? Or do I say the heck with it and let the steel industry dominate the entire top half of the layout? That would be interesting!
That's all for now. Maybe I'll snap some pictures of the unloader when I get home. Lunch is over!
Bill, Please do take some photographs of the unloader for us. I would like to see it. Several years ago I bought an NIB Lionel 456 unloader with one car with the plunger actuator with the Lionel MSRP on it of...hold your hat...$18.50!! I have no idea when it was made. IT works slick, and I have a few other cars with the plunger. I thought I could use it on my layout, and doctor it up a bit to look more prototypical, really just the base would need work. That is one reason there was a lull in my layout build topic. I finally decided I don't have room for it on this layout.
The helix sounds great too! There are so many things to consider when designing a layout. Remember, you can always change things around as you are building. My layout is basically as planned, but I have been able to squeeze in a lot more than I thought!
Two photos are attached. Video coming. The finished unloader will be one whole piece. I printed it in a bottom and top section so that I didn't have to print the entire thing every time I wanted to make a change to the top. It took a few tries to get the side shields designed so coal wasn't splashing everywhere. Then getting the spacing right to fit the ties took two tries because I didn't measure twice like the rule says.
So the bottom has the through axle with bearings at each end. The bearings might be overkill but I figured it would eliminate wear and I wouldn't have to think about it ever again. The two gears are meshed and one will be driven. They are what flips the fingers. The fingers will need more work. A lot more work. They don't fold into the base so cars/trains will be unable to pass over them. I'll need to find a spot to tuck them but I think it will be as simple as a printed slot in the base. The unloader is tapered and the coal falls down it nicely. I'll have to see about adding a cavity ok the underside for an oscillating weight to help get the last bits of coal out of the car.
I assume arduino will be the way I'll control it. The main reason for that is I should be able to set stepper motor spin limits so anybody will be able to unload coal without me worrying that they break something on accident.
I took a day off Friday so I can go vote early and I hope I can finalize the design and print it. I'll post if I get to.
The videos show more detail of it working. It I'll have two fingers in time and I plan to make the fingers out of aluminum instead of printed prototypes.
The workbench is a mess because I've been so busy. It's not normal got things.... everywhere.
Looks great so far!
Thanks! I need to work on the print quality. The printer has needed new parts/upgrades in the last month so all my old settings don't work and I'm still getting it dialed in.
That 456 loader is cool! I never saw one but I have seen the hoppers for it. I wondered what operated them. Do you have hoppers for it?
Bill, it came with one hopper and I bought another. I have about 3 side dump coal cars that should work with it also. It is actually pretty simple.
Nice. It's probably fun pushing cars up that steep grade too!
It's been a while since my last update. The holidays are a busy time for me. Especially this year. Covid has everyone bungled up so we're excessively busy at work. I also drive a tractor for some friends at their Christmas tree farm on the weekends. Somehow, I've been trucking along:
I dismantled the Fastrack loop on the test layout and started putting the Atlas track down to see how I like it in terms of assembly, reliability, noise, etc. It is silent compared to the Fastrack, that's for sure. I haven't ran full speed just yet because I haven't got enough pieces to make a full loop but I expect them to be in this week.
I picked up some real deals online on conventional used locomotives. I would like to start converting them to TMCC/Protosound. I gotta be honest though, I'm chicken to start getting into all that. I've learned a great deal about electronics here and at work but it's been troubleshooting; not exactly installing. So we'll see. I'm looking for thoughts on upgrading conventional Lionel steamers to protosound or TMCC. I got two 0-6-0s and an 0-8-0 with railsounds that need upgrading.
Anyways, that's the news. Hopefully getting the table built will result in more steady progress. We'll see what goes.
Bill, That's a lot of good information you have dug up about coal mining and steel making in the Mahoning Valley! Each area has it's own unique history, geography, geology, etc that can make anyone's layout unique. I have not tried Atlas track, but I like the looks of it. The solid rail and detailed ties remind me of HO and N scale track I used for years. I'm sure it is a whole lot quieter than Fastrak. I went with GarGraves track and Ross switches because Atlas had a real shortage a few years ago, and I was afraid of going with a product line that might not be there in the quantities I wanted in the future. As it turned out, they fixed whatever problems they were having.
I'll be looking forward to seeing what you come up with when you post it!
I never thought about it like that but the block coal does add a unique element.
I like the look of Atlas but Gargraves is appealing. I'll probably buy a chunk of Gargraves and experiment with it soon. It would be great if I could chop a bit off the ties and thin them up. I can always put the Atlas that I have under hills and such if I decided to make the change. I still have concerns about getting Atlas but I haven't come up short so far when I check stock. I have two of their switches and I'm not impressed with those. Wheel flanges jump the track and I got dead spots everywhere. I bought them used so I'm going to assume they're damaged. Otherwise I figure it's from the era when Atlas had bad switches.
Well I defeated myself.
I used drawings from Youngstown Sheet & Tube's Campbell works blast furnaces to design the BF's for my layout. Now I worked for the Ellwood Group so I thought I knew large industry but those BF's were enormous. So much so, that the height wouldn't fit on my layout as I designed them. We're talking about just over three feet in height. Fortunately, my CAD program of choice has a "scale" command I was able to shrink that down to 75% of the height. But that means I created a confusing situation for myself I have managed to print half the furnace in real 48th scale, and the other half in 75% of 48th scale 
So the update showing the model will be delayed. The printer is hard at work right now while I smoke a cigar and continue designing.
The track plan has completely changed though. This is mostly because of how shelving in the basement has already been set up as well as new information about Mahoning/Trumbull/Lawrence/Mercer county iron and steel history coming to light for me. It pays to do your homework as it turns out!
I attached a photo of the track plan for the blast furnace end of the mill and here's the ID of everything
15 - elevated ore track for coal, iron, and limestone. There should be two tracks but artistic compression current has me having one.
5 - blast furnace with stoves to the right and a dust collector over the tracks behind it (below it in the pic)
11 and 12 - canteens. We called them canteens at the foundry I worked at but they're just break rooms for lunch and safety meetings.
9 - hoist engines to pull cars up the skip hoist for the furnace
8 - blower house and maintenance shop
16 - track to the helix for the bottom level
12 - utility shack
I expect this plan to change a number of times over the next few weeks as more items come off the printer and head to the test loop but this is significantly different from the track plan I had posted before. There are now two mainline loops because I want the option to let trains run around a loop while I switch the cars for the blast furnace. I hope to have group operating sessions but sometimes it would be nice just to go downstairs and run some trains. The yard (not pictured) expanded a bit to hold incoming and outgoing cars. The open hearth/bessemer operations moved down to the other end of the layout but I haven't even started on a track plan there yet.
Likewise, I have nothing planned for the lower level yet other than knowing that a coal mine will be there to load hoppers. People have recommended a round house but I'm open to suggestions. I like operation, no doubt about it. Putting a yard on the lower level for other freight is appealing but time will tell. I anticipate that I will build the table on the top level first, get my loops setup, build a blast furnace, and then run trains just to scratch my itch.
Looks like you are well on your way planning with good information.
Here's the latest:
The final major component of the blast furnace is on the printer now. That'll give me the furnace itself, the stoves, and the dust collector. Shrinking the model down made for some mishaps in measurements and whatnot so I've had some reprints plus the printer needed a part replaced (no big deal, just lost time).
The benchwork is designed and I'm ready to build it. It's done up in 4' wide sections that will be no more than 6' long. I plan on never moving again but that's not realistic so I think I should be able to dismantle the layout pretty easy. I intend to cut track where the tables come apart and the wiring will follow suit. My hope is that un-drying white glue to remove scenery is small potatoes if your table is simply bolted together.
I found https://www.ohiomemory.org/. RIP the rest of your night if you like history 
I've been researching the Youngstown Sheet & Tube Campbell works to see what's in a blower house, boiler house, skip hoist, open hearth, teeming pit, etc. There are some really impressive pictures on there and I'm so glad I found it because the local industrial museum is tough to get into with the pandemic. This has helped me move forward and start coming up with some basic plans on the other structures for the mill.
The track plan has undergone some huge changes and it looks like I might be having 3 blast furnaces now instead of 2. The top level of the layout (mill level) will be very congested and I'm hoping this makes for more exciting operations. The iron operations take place at one end of the layout while the steel operations take place at the other. I intend to post the track plan once I finish getting it labelled up. I have some concerns about clearances and maybe having too much track but I'm not overly worried because I believe the most important sections are fine where they are. Everything else is negotiable. I'll be starting first with the giant double track main once the table is built. Partially to scratch my itch to run more trains and partially because everything else is located relative to it, the high-line for the blast furnaces, and the helix.
Which is the last update! I'm going to use a screw conveyor to get my coal back down to the coal mine on the lower level. I already test printed a two part screw that has to be glued together. It fit inside the clear PVC pipe perfectly. Then I test printed a piece that connects to the vertical pipe and feeds the screw.
I have found the table grew in some spots that now means I can't reach everywhere on the layout without help. I'm a little worried about that. I know I can use a topside creeper. I think the layout will support my weight if I had to crawl on it. I mostly managed to keep switches within reach. The only three that are isolated can be reached via the helix.
So I've been busy. I don't have many pictures of anything to show for it but I'm trying to cover my bases before I start cutting and assembling. I thought my benchwork design was done till I went to double check some measurements today. Turns out I was way off. I'm glad I double checked. I'l try to get some pictures up at some point.
Here is a link to the Campbell works blast furnaces. This plant heavily inspired my new track plans. The furnaces there were also the original design of the model I printed. I got the blueprints from the museum and scaled them down to 1:48. Unfortunately, they were still enormous so I made scaled them to 75% of 1:48 and I'm going with it so far. Once the table is built and I start laying track, I'll decide if there's any room to make them slightly bigger.
Bill you are right. I have eaten my words a couple times by saying I don't plan to move again unless it is to a nursing home.
How many different facilities did Youngstown Sheet & Tube have? I can recall hearing that name every so often in the years past. I recall taking a evening river cruise up the Monongahela River on the Gateway Clipper and seeing the fire and glow from the blast furnaces along the way, but never saw what was around Youngstown, though it is about the same distance from home. Even George G3750 has had to do some selective compression on his Weirton Steel topic.
I wish someone else would weigh in on your topic.
Bill, I’m looking forward to seeing the finished product. You should consider memorializing the process and submitting it for publication. Using a 3-D printer sounds ominous.
Good Luck,
Jay
I moved every 11 weeks for 5 years during college. I would love for my next move the last one you ever make. Then again, I say that now because my retiree neighbors are fantastic. They keep an eye on my place during the day and teach me how to tend the garden I started. Maybe I would feel differently if my neighborhood didn't feel like extended grandparents. I'm also not married yet. Hope I can find a girl that feels the same as I feel about my neighborhood.
Sheet & Tube had the Youngstown facilities (Brier Hill, Campbell Works, and the Rod and Wire mill in Struthers), the Burns Harbor Facilties, and some coke works in PA I think. I appreciate the Sheet & Tube works for the family connections I have as well as personal connections. (Pardon my rambling)
The Campbell Works were divided by the Mahoning River. That river basically splits Struthers and Campbell. Men from Struthers and Campbell worked at the mill and that boiled over into the Struthers-Campbell football rivalry. I'm a Struthers high school graduate. The mills closed in 1979 but we still hold that rivalry. There's a trophy for the winner and everything; it was the biggest game of the football season. It was good times.
My grandpa was the fire chief at Sheet & Tube. Him and another guy invented a way to refill spent fire extinguishers. I had uncles and cousins that all worked at the Sheet & Tube too. So I got loads of personal connection to the mill. My friends grandparents worked there with my grandparents and so on.
But that's enough rambling haha I'm glad model railroading lets me combine my love of history with my love of all things mechanical.
That poor 3D printer ran 24/7 from December 22nd to January 3rd while I was off work for the holidays and able to be home supervising it. The last piece is set to finish at 1AM tonight. Hopefully I can post some pictures tomorrow. I'll be looking for opinions on whether or not the stoves are too tall.
The coolest part of this project has been being able to create a fictitious city located in Mahoning County where the history lives on. The research has been a good time and I've met a lot of great people along the way before the pandemic messed things up.
I attached a pic of the north end of the layout where the blast furnace is:
18 is a maintenance shop for rolling stock and the engines
17 is the boiler house
16 is the track leading down to the helix. Concealed under hill.
15 is the ore track that empties coal/limestone/iron ore from hoppers
11 and 10 are lunch rooms, called "canteens" where I worked
9 are the hoist engines for the skip hoist
8 is the blower house
5 are the blast furnaces including three stoves and a dust collector on the tracks.
Here are three pics of the blast furnace, stoves, and dust collector on the test layout. I used to use black filament when I was printing other items and I had to use some up to make space for the grey filament I started buying. That's why the colors are mismatched. I also plan on painting these pieces anyway. I just like to get the color close if I can.
There are still a ton of details I need to add. The downcomer to the dust collector, the skip hoist, stacks, steps, the cast house itself, etc, etc, etc. But! I wanted to get an idea on the basic foot print to see if I can squeak a 4th furnace into the layout. More furnaces mean more raw material demand. I decided to model an early blast furnace because the ore yards were significantly smaller and the ore cranes didn't exist. Originally, the hoppers dumped their contents through the tracks and workers carted the coke/limestone/ore to an elevator that took it to the top of the furnace where workers carted the material to the furnace opening. I didn't want to model that because I wanted to animate the skip hoist. I didn't find explicit reference to hand loaded skip hoists but I'm inferring they existed because ore cranes evolved into what we know now. And if this setup didn't exist, then I'm claiming artistic license in my fictitious town of Norgeville haha Anyway, adding a fourth furnace adds demand to the incoming freight to supply the furnace and adds traffic to the mill moving liquid iron to the open hearth/bessemer converter. That adds traffic to the ingot trains and the outgoing freight. It only took me about a year to decide but this is the kind of model railroading I enjoy.
So now I'll be starting to model the remaining structures. I thought for sure I would need to shrink the stoves and dust collector but I think I'm going to leave them. The dust collector (picture ending in 333) will have tracks going under it for covered hoppers to be filled. Likewise, the cast house will have trains going under it for slag and torpedo cars to be filled. The top of the blast furnace needs more design work. The white platform might need to be moved downwards some. I think I have it too high now that I looked at more pictures. Then I'll need to add stacks and figure out how to get the skip hoist to move up and down.
That silver hose is part of a fume hood I have over the work bench so I can smoke a cigar/pipe without stinking up the entire basement. It will probably double to remove smoke from the trains too. Having multiple locomotives running at once will probably choke me out. I also wanted to have smoke from the mill. I'm veeeery much second guessing that now haha
Thank you for the information I asked about. Your personal family history makes us see why you are so interested. The 3D printed parts look great as does the plan. You certainly could get a lot of smoke in there with the engines, mill, and a cigar! 
Thanks Mark. Happy to share what I know on this topic. I wish I understood what I like so much about it and about Youngstown in general. My friends love to give me a hard time about how I get on a soapbox about Youngstown when somebody brings the city up. I know part of my interest is because we're in a rebuilding phase. Youngstown was a desolate wasteland when I came up in the 90s. Now you can easily spend a whole Saturday down there. It's pretty cool to be involved in rebuilding a city.
Glad to hear some positive remarks on the printed parts. I'm considering fixing them to a pottery wheel or lathe and spinning them to put a coating of plaster or something on them. We'll see. There are visible layer lines when the light hits at a certain angle. I'm hoping a flat paint or dullcote will make them disappear but the plaster is a back up plan.
Welp, unfortunately I gotta reprint the stoves. I have a 20"x20" footprint to fit the blast furnace and three stoves. My current stoves are true 1:48th scale based on a blast furnace here in Youngstown. I scaled the furnace down but not the stoves because I thought it looked decent in the above picture. Now I can see I'll need to do them as well because I couldn't squeeze into that footprint on the test layout. No big deal. The dust collector can stay as is because it has to be located over tracks to load hoppers. So that's good news. I'll start the new stones tonight or tomorrow.
I now have a pretty solid idea of where my high line will go to get material to the furnace. I'm thinking about what I want to do for the supporting structure. Luckily, Youngstown had a high line and some of it remains. This is off of Mahoning Avenue near the water plant by the Mahoning River. I'll probably need to go snap some pictures and get some measurements while everything is dead in winter. It's tough to imagine steam engines chuffing along on bridges that high up but there's railroad tracks up there. The dog will be pumped to go do some exploring haha
This is as close to the finished trackplan as I'll probably get for the top level on the computer. I assume I'll need tweaks when I actually put track down. Hopefully this picture is big enough. You might need to open it in a new tab or window to zoom in and see everything.
There are a few spots with custom length track sections and there is one custom crossing. The basic layout is a double track main so I can always have engines running while working the mill. I really hope I can have some people over to run trains but I know I will also run trains by myself. This allows me to have action in both ways. There is only one reverse line on this level. I didn't see a need for another because this one will set trains up to go back down the helix on the right side of the trackplan. I can put another opposite reverse line on the bottom level where the mine is.
I tried to hide as much of the train as I could on the left side of the track plan under a huge mountain. I think that having a completely uncovered loop would take away from the mill operations. I did the same on the right side and might extend the mountain some more there as well. I think that will really come into play once the table is up and track is laid because I'll be able to feel it out better.
The yard in the middle is likely to shrink. I made it as big as possible and didn't really concern myself with how many cars it could hold. I just knew I had a finite amount of space so I would plan to use all of it and that's ok if I don't. Track 1 is the mainline loop. 2-7 are the yard; hopefully three inbound tracks, three outbound tracks. 8 is a run around to get cars past the yard and to get access to the mainline. 9 is the high line. I expect to the final height to be between 4-6 inches. The unmarked side is an optional siding that might not make it to the final build. 10 is another run around track mainly in case 8 is tied up with yard operations. It also could find itself being reduced to a siding.
The blast furnaces will dominate the right side of the layout. There are canteens (lunch rooms) at 10 and 11. Hoist engines at 9. The buildings 17, 8, and 18 are going to be blower engines, boiler house, and probably maintenance. I just haven't decided how to divide that up. I have options there. 15 is the high line ore track. I'm going to start learning Arduino so I can power the unloaders I'm making. The coal/iron ore/limestone will probably be the same material. But I think the fun of actually unloading a car will out shine the part where it all looks like coal. Anyway, it will go down through the layout and be collected and moved by screw conveyor back to the coal mine on the lower level. I started designing and printing the screw conveyors and it's coming along. I never made a screw conveyor before so I don't have a darn clue what I'm doing. But that's what I like about this hobby. You can do it your way and figure it out.
The open hearth (14) will probably be the defining piece of this side of the layout. It clocks in 70 inches long. The track at the top of the plan nearest the mainline will be where hot metal/scrap comes in for use in the furnace. The three tracks to the right of the building will be where tanker cars will be connected for the fuel used in the furnaces. The placement isn't exactly realistic but I was running out of space and an enormous open hearth building was more important to me than this detail. I could have just had gas lines from off the layout coming in but I decided moving tankers around would be more fun! Teeming will take place on the track below the number fourteen. I already designed an ingot mold (thank goodness I worked in an ingot mold foundry haha) and so now I'll have to figure out what to do about the ingot buggies. I think I'll be able to draw them in CAD and 3D print them but we'll see. I wanted two sets of teeming tracks but it just wasn't working out. Building 13 will be the stripper for the molds. It will probably also include soaking pits and a forge press or small rolling mill. Then I expect the unmarked building to be the shipping building but again, there are options.
You're a beast if you made it this far! Thank you so much for reading. I know I didn't summarize the operations much but the short of it is that freight comes into the yard and gets sent where it needs to on the layout. Maybe I'll make another novel length post about it another night. Now cross your fingers that I'm off this weekend and I can start getting wood together to start bench work haha I'm pretty sure I bit off more than I can chew and I'm going to hit a ton of bumps in the road but it's cool. I don't mind a challenge and I know there's people here with the answers. I'm mostly intimidated by the electrical side of things. How do I power all the switches? How do I power the layout itself? Will I ever leave the house again instead of playing with trains all day? Will Legacy/TMCC/DSC become unruly when I add the bottom layer? Should be a good time haha
Edit: I think OGR smushed my photo down when I uploaded. I'll try to get it so you can read the numbers when you zoom in.
Ok the pdf seems to work. Let me know if it doesn't and I'll try something else.
Bill, Well I'm not a beast. I cheated and skimmed some. I was able to see the plan .pdf fine. The plan is impressive, and I understand that you realize the yard may shrink, and other changes will happen. You have to start somewhere. I certainly can't comment on all the buildings, structures, and tracks since I don't know about the process involved. It will be impressive looking and to operate. I like that the tracks will be hidden on the end curves.
Thank you Mark! I would have cheated and skimmed too I'm just ready to stop talking and start making it a reality! I didn't care for the L shape of my house when I bought it but man did that work out to my benefit and then some 
This is the only empty wall in the entire basement.
And I just started printing the new scaled down stoves. I think I'm going to elevate them on a big ol' platform to maintain that height in the photo above.
Not an overly exiting update. I started getting materials together for installing the backdrop. That included 2x4s, masonite sheeting, paint stuff, and lights. Well I got the first two items. Turns out masonite is an enormous pain to carry by yourself. It seems to want to jump out of my hands. Then I couldn't find lights 
I feel that 5000K or better lights are going to be necessary. There is almost no natural light in the basement. I didn't start painting because I didn't have the correct light and that's important. So...kind of a bust.
Beyond that, I bought some track and the scaled down stoves for the blast furnace are almost done printing. That's all I got for now!
@BillYo414 posted:Not an overly exiting update. I started getting materials together for installing the backdrop. That included 2x4s, masonite sheeting, paint stuff, and lights. Well I got the first two items. Turns out masonite is an enormous pain to carry by yourself. It seems to want to jump out of my hands. Then I couldn't find lights
Beyond that, I bought some track and the scaled down stoves for the blast furnace are almost done printing. That's all I got for now!
I can't wait to see this layout. I love your historical approach as well.
George
This looks to be a pretty impressive build. I've known guys working in N that did more compression than you in their mills. If I were to do a furnace, I KNOW mine would have to be compressed, as I'd want to do Dorothy 6 at the USS Duquesne works. Used to see her lighting up the night from my grandparents porch and drove by her daily for a couple of years.
I admit to skimming a bit, so I missed if you have any plans for deliveries/shipments off layout? Is that what the tunnel on the left side is for?
@Greg Nagy posted:This looks to be a pretty impressive build. I've known guys working in N that did more compression than you in their mills. If I were to do a furnace, I KNOW mine would have to be compressed, as I'd want to do Dorothy 6 at the USS Duquesne works. Used to see her lighting up the night from my grandparents porch and drove by her daily for a couple of years.
I admit to skimming a bit, so I missed if you have any plans for deliveries/shipments off layout? Is that what the tunnel on the left side is for?
Darn it...now I'll have to spend the week learning about Dorothy 6 and looking at old pics haha I'm mostly compressed in the open hearth (it should be at least 3 times longer) and the height of the blast furnaces. I'm also fortunate to have the long side of the L shaped basement be unoccupied and I'm not married yet. So this is a beneficial set of circumstances
I would skim too. I get long winded when I talk about steel industry stuff. The current plan for off layout operations is just a staging yard on the lower level. The helix on the right leads down to the a lower level. The whole point of that lower level is actually so the coal can drop through the high line at the blast furnace and go into the coal mine below to be loaded into waiting hoppers. I totally stole this idea from NSmodeler24 on Youtube. Since the only required structure on the lower level is a coal mine, I was hoping to put a staging yard for freight to be delivered to the mill from there. There is another option though!
I think that I could add one more level on the basement floor to make an off layout staging yard. It wouldn't be visible normally and it wouldn't have any scenery. So it would be a true staging area. We'll see what happens. The entire layout is currently held up by Home Depot not having 5000K lights in stock like they used to. I don't want to get gung ho on adding another level when I can't even get the lighting handled. I was supposed to have the backdrop completed today and tomorrow but that didn't happen.
On the upside, the first scaled down stove is almost done printing and I placed the first order for some track.
Progress has been steady on the layout. I relocated the test loop so I could start putting up the sky. There is conduit on the basement walls so I'm pretty much framing a wall over that stuff so I don't have to remove it. No insulation and no footer or header (I think those are what they're called). I just attached the vertical 2x4s to the ceiling joists. Masonite will then be attached to the 2x4s AND the ceiling. It will bend upwards like a coved ceiling. I'm hoping this will create the illusion of a sky. I had to do something to compensate for the layout being 48" off the ground. I didn't want the ceiling to be just....there. So this will help alleviate that.
The table will be built out of roughly 4x6 foot sections that will be bolted together. So I'll probably build the perimeter tables first that go along the wall so I can reach it to build my hills to hide the curves at the end of the layout. Then I'll work my way out from there. I'm bummed it'll stop me from getting the loop completed for a few months (I assume) but I know it'll save me from crawling all over the table and whatnot.
I also decided on 4000K lights. I already have some shop lights in the basement and I felt like they're doing a good job. I'm going to go with T8 sized LEDs. I already have some fixtures that just need the ballast bypassed. But it also will give me the chance to upgrade to 5000K if I decide 4000K wasn't enough.
My 0-6-0T came in and I was disappointed at first but I'm starting to like it as the days go by. The starts were jumpy but they're smoothing out. The short distance between the rollers makes me hesitant to buy another though. I have so many switches in the yard and stuff so we'll see what goes.
The stoves, dust collector, and furnace body are done printing. Finally. Now the ducting to connect it all has to be constructed. But I'm taking a break from that and jumping over to the open hearth. Plastruct had nice columns but I would have to modify them because I want to include overhead cranes in the open hearth. So I designed my own and they're on the printer now. I based most of it off of old Valley Mold (now Ellwood Engineered Castings) where I used to work. Things are coming along with that. I haven't figured out how to print nice rivets. I'm thinking dabs of glue or paint might be the answer there.
I pre-ordered a 2-10-10-2 and an RS3 from the new catalog. The 2-10-10-2 is totally unrealistic for my region and time period but I don't care because it's cool. I guess the Virginian had a 2-10-10-2 for big coal drags but those never came to Youngstown. The RS3 is a sentimental buy. I bought a conventional RS3 as a kid back in the day. It was the first locomotive I ever bought with my hard earned money. It has some drivetrain issues but I saw they had the same engine (a Southern) available in the new catalog so I scooped it up! I'll either repair the old one and upgrade it to ERR or I'll make it a dummy unit.
That's what's news! I'm going to go watch some Youtube tutorials on painting skies.
Bill, It sounds like a good plan. I will like seeing how you cove the backdrop to the ceiling. That should be great!
That is good the 0-6-0 running is smoothing out. Someone else mentioned theire was similar and I thought it may smooth out as it is run some. The 2-10-10-2 will be great even though not prototypical for the area. I have always liked RS3s, and have two.
I'm skipping around a bit since I decided against my coved sky idea. I'm going to just paint the ceiling flat black.
The parts in the pictures aren't even glued together so that's cool that it works well enough on its own. Those parts are also only semi final. Details will be added and the extra bits from printing will be removed. The parts for the truss arrived in the mail today. I think I'll get away with just printing the tie plates that hold the truss pieces together when I start gluing. I'm going to design little recesses in the plate to help locate parts to get the angles right. I assume I'll need to make my own corrugated siding somehow. I don't think my printer can make that and I don't think it would look good either.
In my dreams, the overhead crane works on the model and there are multiple overhead cranes on the rails like in the mill I worked in. I feel like that's going to come much later because I assume DCC would be the only or best way to run a motor for moving down the runway, a motor for the trolley, and a motor for the hoist. I know nothing about DCC. So the design for the crane runway will include brass tube for the rails so I can electrify it later. The wheels probably won't be scale because I don't want to risk crane coming off the tracks and crashing into the model interior. I also would have to crawl on the layout to put the crane back on the rails for at least two of the buildings. I considered footing the bill for a pricey miniature linear bearing set but I doubt I will because they can be pricey. It probably seems like overkill to make the cranes work but I think it would increase the play value of the layout enormously and be a lot of fun!
It stinks that progress is mostly paused for now because of the ceiling thing but I want to make sure I take my time and do it right. I've looked through a lot of layout threads on here and it seems that taking the time to do it right is the best way to spend the time.
Bill, are you doing a backdrop? I’ve been wrestling with ceiling color. I’m leaning away from black and going with a slightly deeper sky blue to contrast with the skyblue walls.
Partially @Tranquil Hollow RR. The middle of the layout includes the yard that diverts to the different parts of the mill and I plan to have a backdrop with another steel mill back there. The ends of the layout will just have sky backdrops painted blue to match the backdrop sky where the backdrop mill is. The reason for not continuing the mill backdrop is that the ends of the layout are hills to hide the whole bit where engines overhang on curves and because that's literally the back drop of the mills where I'm from; the Mahoning Valley. It's got hills on both sides. So It works for me on a few different levels to have hills there.
This thread I made has some pictures in it and I don't know the science behind it but it seems like the flat black ceiling is like a green screen for the brain. It's like your brain says "ohh, it's empty space. Ignore it." and it disappears. At least that's how it goes for me. That's the main reason I'm going with flat black.
@BillYo414 posted:In my dreams, the overhead crane works on the model and there are multiple overhead cranes on the rails like in the mill I worked in. I feel like that's going to come much later because I assume DCC would be the only or best way to run a motor for moving down the runway, a motor for the trolley, and a motor for the hoist. I know nothing about DCC. So the design for the crane runway will include brass tube for the rails so I can electrify it later. The wheels probably won't be scale because I don't want to risk crane coming off the tracks and crashing into the model interior. I also would have to crawl on the layout to put the crane back on the rails for at least two of the buildings. I considered footing the bill for a pricey miniature linear bearing set but I doubt I will because they can be pricey. It probably seems like overkill to make the cranes work but I think it would increase the play value of the layout enormously and be a lot of fun!
Oh, I hear you! In my dreams, my overhead cranes run as well. Let's collaborate on that idea in the near future.
Those crane rails and walls look awesome!!!
George
@G3750 I already have the bailer (bailor? The fixture used for lifting ladles!) designed. Just need a means of lifting ladles! I'll get a hold of you once I get the rail/wheel situation figured out. Either I'm bad at Google and can't find scale wheels or I'm going to be making my own!
And thanks! They're based off drawings from a mill built in the twenties. Compromises were made to make it into a more flexible kit that I would love to be able to copyright and sell one day. It's missing rivets but that's small potatoes. Trials I did on printing columns in college a few (5) years ago looked awesome because that machine could handle rivets. I think that a bunch of dabs of paint or super glue will achieve the same affect.
I got my butt kicked at work all week. My job often requires me to learn as I'm troubleshooting. I come home brain dead sometimes as I'm learning all kinds of new things on the fly.
So I managed to buy an airless sprayer to try to get the basement ceiling painted.
I also packed some rolling stock into boxes and moved them under the test layout for when the painting occurs.
I printed my first version of the ingot buggy. Pictures attached. I over exposed the pictures because it was black filament and rough lighting. I basically need to adjust the holes for the truck mounts (they're hidden but they're too small), stop the coupler arms from rubbing on the car body, add details to the design, and make bigger ingot molds. The molds I printed are a bit small but I based the design off of what I saw when I worked in the ingot mold foundry instead of working from prints. I took this version of the buggy around the layout for about a half hour while I swapped trucks on a Menards boxcar and then finished my beer. Nothing bad happened! So that's good. It seems like a got a good foundation to start with. Final colors and design are a long way off. Disregard all the hooplah on the test layout haha
I got colored filament so I can 3D print red/yellow ingots. There will still be painting involved but this is a start. I used to plan on adding lights to the cars so the ingots glowed but I have decided instead to pursue a few working overhead cranes so I can strip the ingots (or I'll build an ingot stripper, we'll see).
So that's about it. Machines are still broken at work and I'm still not a hydraulics/electronics expert so I don't know how much I'll work on things next week. Might just come home and let my brain cool 
Wow, that turned out pretty well!
George
Billyo, Make sure you cover everything in the area where you are painting. Paint particles do travel, even where you don't expect them too.
Steve
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