Bill that's a clever idea! Great use of available space. Just a thought, it seems like letting a bit of diffused smoke from the tunnel into the building that would slowly waft out from the front doors of the building well after the train passes might actually be a cool effect. But, not knowing if that would be prototypical for an open hearth...
Anyway, I still like your idea.
@SteveH posted:Bill that's a clever idea! Great use of available space. Just a thought, it seems like letting a bit of diffused smoke from the tunnel into the building that would slowly waft out from the front doors of the building well after the train passes might actually be a cool effect. But, not knowing if that would be prototypical for an open hearth...
Anyway, I still like your idea.
Thank you. Credit to the creative people that did it before me!
The bold print has been the main reason for the slow progress. I have never been inside a steel mill with a blast furnace or an open hearth and I doubt I ever will be. The last running open hearth is in the Ukraine and it may have even shut down. There are smaller ones elsewhere but that would make for risky travel. I have viewed shuttered versions from the street and seen videos of each but that's just not the same. Especially when there is so many parts to the equipment. I have to spend weeks and weeks reading and researching to get the idea. I would still been clueless on the open hearth operation if not for the real furnace being available at the steel museum. Seeing that in person made things click for me.
After sleeping on it for the night, I'm thinking you're right. It might be perfectly realistic for smoke to come out of the building from anywhere. The effect is really great when my steamer pulls hot metal cars under the cast house. Nobody has to know it's actually from the train. We had fires all over in the foundry and an open hearth is roughly 500F-600F hotter. By my most accurate maths, that should mean more fires haha But this might be a game day decision. I need to make sure it isn't obvious that the train is passing through a building to make its route and I'll probably need to just test that when the model is built.
I might not need to muffle the sound if I use sounds for the mill. I plan to place speakers in the buildings that play mill sounds, just to give a busy feel to the layout and that might drown out the difference in sound as the train passes through the open hearth. We'll see. Ideally, it'll just sound like an engine passing through in the distance. That would be ideal.
I should have some time tomorrow to start cleaning the ceiling for paint. I already did a wipe down of the areas that are easy to get to. Now I gotta get the tops of vents, pipes, and light fixtures.
Another update that's exciting to have happen but not exciting to read about.
I chopped off or removed as many nails, staples, hooks, etc as I could from the basement ceiling in preparation for painting. I wiped off the tops of some vents but still have more to go. The pockets (I guess it's called?) where the block ends and the wood joists and stuff begins sure is filthy. I'm starting to reconsider spraying the basement ceiling because I have fears that there will be too much mess. I just think a brush will take a long time even if I get lots of help. I'm ready to throw in the towel and just call in a professional.
I also relocated every pieces of rolling stock and locomotive for the last time, I hope. I was going to drape plastic sheeting over the test layout during painting but I guess I'm growing up because I chose to do the right thing instead of work around the covered table like my younger self would have done.
And on the subject of relocating, I also cataloged all my rolling stock in Excel while I was moving them. I have 69 total pieces so far. 21 of which are hoppers, 13 are boxcars, 10 are hot metal torpedo cars, and 7 are slag cars. The remaining are a mix of covered hoppers, cabooses (cabeese?), gondolas, reefers, etc. The rolling stock roster is pretty important as I start thinking about operations. I know roughly what the steel mill will consume and I'm trying to match up the capacity of the car as much as possible. I don't think I'll get it exactly right because of space limitations but I'll do my best.
I'm pretty satisfied with the blast furnace models for the time being. I'll be planning to dedicate some time to the open hearth building. Then I'll be on to the supporting equipment for the blast furnace (blowing engines, skip hoist engine, etc, etc).
I have to go buy one more roll of plastic tomorrow and I will be all ready for painting the ceiling. Looks like in going with the flat black latex paint, prime the metal vents. I cleaned off as much dust as I could but I know there's more up there. I hope it doesn't affect things. I hate paint haha I hate it so much. It'll be good to get this out of the way though.
The studs are all up. You can kind of see them behind the plastic. Masonite will be go on the studs. Then I'll use drywall patch compound to smooth over any screw holes or ridges. Then the backdrop will go up (I'm thinking adhesive back) and at that point, I'll finally be ready to put up a table. I might sound tired in this post (I'm exhausted) but I am excited to get a real table up finally! Especially with the 2-10-10-2 on the way in January.
Bill,
That looks awesome! BTW, are you going to re-paint the dog? 
George
You are well prepared Bill. Get her done and then the fun part begins. Wear a mask too.
@G3750 He got his fair share of extra coats when I was doing the walls haha he wouldn't move! But I'll have him out of the area since this is a spray situation instead of a brush.
@Tranquil Hollow RR I have the big cartridge respirator ready to go! I'm just wondering if I want to throw a poncho on or see if I just don't get that much paint on me.
I'm so ready to get this moving along. I feel like progress will be easier to make once I get a loop of track complete.
Bill,
It looks like you're not the only one excited! I see something wonderful brewing up your way. I really can appreciate, as anxious as you are, you doing things "right". It will be much more satisfying if you have benchwork up around a well planned out room and backdrop. Keep up the good work and keep us posted.
Dave
@luvindemtrains Thanks! I appreciate the kind words. I hope I can post a picture of paint drying tomorrow.
Bill, this is really a fascinating post. Really looking forward to your updates. Coming along nicely.
Tom
Looks good Bill. Be prepared for several coats. The bare wood is going to suck up that paint like you won't believe. Once you get it sealed it should look great.
Bob
Thanks @Tom Q Fan
@RSJB18 I hope I got another coat in me if I need it.
Some notes for the person that finds this via the search when they want to paint their ceiling:
-The Harbor Freight airless sprayer works with latex paint but is hard on the hands (vibration), runs out of paint quickly, leaks, and is EXTREMELY messy. But it does work. I was on a budget and this will work.
-Get a painters suit.
-I didnt think thinning the paint with water would fade the black to grey but it did. The HF gun needs very thin paint to work. Maybe a more expensive gun that didn't require thinned paint would stay black and work better. I'm not sure. I'm hoping the paint magically dries black.
-This was a filthy job. I'm glad I wore a respirator. Ruined a pair of boots though.
-Black/dark paint is tricky to paint with compared to white.
I couldn't get a decent picture of the paint because it was wet so the shine was making the photos look weird. We'll see when it dries. I hate painting like that (walls and ceilings). I think I hate it more than the interest rate on my student loan payments and the paper work at the doctor's office. Hate it. I'm not a painter. That's for sure.
I will say though that from where I was standing, the ceiling literally disappeared. Especially with the lights on. I'll be able to tell the final results in a while when everything is dried. I care most about the area above the blast furnaces because that's where your line of sight is closest to the ceiling. Im hoping I can get away with one coat. It looked like things were covering well as I was going but it was hard to see. I haven't looked in a mirror yet to see how much overspray I got on my face. It's a good thing I left the dog upstairs haha he would have been covered!!
In more exciting news, I have started buying track in addition to Santa Claus contributing to the effort. I'm trying to have enough to make a single loop by the time the tables go up. Can anybody tell me if Ross is usually quick (meaning less than a month) about producing and shipping larger pieces like the crossovers?
Well I do believe that's a wrap on the ceiling painting. I don't think I'll do another coat unless I find some really obvious missed spots. You can barely see the ceiling right now with the couple shop lights I have been using. I actually had to use my finger to block the light so you could see the ceiling. So here's to hoping the ceiling will disappear once the bright track lights are installed and the interesting layout is built.
I don't know why but the super cheap airless spray gun was much cleaner today. It's not a graceful tool but when you're saving every last cent to make a big student loan payment in May, it's the best tool for the job.
As promised, pictures of paint drying are attached. Plus a bonus 
I sure do hate painting!
The ceiling looks great, Bill! I’m glad I didn’t have such a task myself, even though it certainly was easier with the sprayer than it would have been with a brush as Dad always insisted on using helping him paint.
You have a lot of patience Bill and you will be happy that you got that out of the way. When I was at York I had the opportunity to speak with Steve Ross. He said they were about 6-8 weeks in getting orders completed.
It was definitely easier. @Mark Boyce I'm just glad it's over. Onto back drops now! I'm also kicking around some open bench work instead of a tabletop. I was thinking it might save some money plus it might make it easier to access deeper sections of the layout. But I already was planning to make most of the buildings able to drop straight down so I could access areas. The idea of not purchasing tons of plywood is appealing. But we'll see. I'll have to look at what some other people have done. I was thinking about this while I was walking in the area the table would be while painting. It's a big space. I'm open to some opinions if anybody has some.
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:You have a lot of patience Bill and you will be happy that you got that out of the way. When I was at York I had the opportunity to speak with Steve Ross. He said they were about 6-8 weeks in getting orders completed.
Thank you. And thank you for the info! That's not too bad for my current schedule. I just spoke to the local hobby shop about Atlas track and Ross Switches. He said he had some Ross in stock but he told me Atlas delays seem to be a shipping problem more than a production problem. I'm not overly concerned just yet. I've been buying a little at a time because I do want the outter loops to be Atlas. Then maybe the inner yards can be Gargraves.
Bill,
Congratulations on this milestone man! I'm very excited for you. From what I understand Atlas track is on the water, literally. However, there was a forumite selling track the other day. Here's the link Atlas Track. There are definitely some pros to open grid benchwork. Though I don't have it, if I ever build another layout I will strongly consider.
I have to roast on you a bit...you really wear your work well, lol.
Dave
Great job, Bill! And congratulations on this milestone.
You're right - the ceiling does fade nicely as a result of the paint.
George
Thank you! @luvindemtrains I feel like I started the layout for real now. He said the last he heard, there was a big production run waiting to leave China. I'm not sure what the timeline is. I have some books on layout building that compare the two. I think the cost of wood is going to be the deciding factor for me. I assume I could just put wood down where the track goes and then build the scenery on thin wood where the track isn't. My only concern about open bench work is the weight of derailments. The scenery would have to hold big articulated engines and heavy coal loads (black sand in this case). But, as I said, I got some time to look over what others have done.
I posted the pic for everyone's entertainment haha it's a great pic haha I had been wearing a painters suit and big respirator. I was pretty shocked when I looked in the mirror 
Thanks! @G3750
Bill, Great work on the ceiling. Looking forward to all the exciting updates.
Tom
Excellent job on the ceiling!
Peter
Thanks guys!
I checked on the paint job an hour ago now that the paint is dry and I see I missed spots where the conduit is held against the wood and details like that. I'm not overly concerned though because I used a flashlight to find them. You can't really see the mistakes when the ceiling lights on and I can't get over how well it works haha there are a few spots where the paint looks different than everywhere else. I'm not sure what caused it but I'm also not interested in finding out or fixing it. This is a basement, not the Sistine Chapel.
So now I need to hang the Masonite for the backdrop.
I also forgot that I'll need to come up with a venting solution. There are three glass block windows with opening sections along the layout. I think I'm going to try to attach some computer fans to those windows. I'm a big fan of smoke and when I'm alone or with certain people, I'll have smoke units in several buildings plus two trains running mainline and two or three switchers running at all times. I'll need to move some air for sure.
As far as the layout itself, Im basing my arrangement heavily on the blast furnaces at Youngstown Sheet and Tube's Campbell Works. I have been clueless on identifying the buildings but I struck gold yesterday in the museum archives in Youngstown. They have YS&T's property maps for all their locations. So I found out what the large buildings behind the blast furnace were. This would be the Campbell side for those of you following closely. I knew one was a boiler house and the other a blowing engine house but I didn't know which was which. There they were though, clearly labelled. I was very excited. Next up will be the hunt for the pipe schematics. There are four large pipes that go from the boiler house to the blast furnaces. I'm thinking these are waste gases being burned in the boilers because photos don't suggest these are high pressure steam lines. I never saw 4' diameter steam lines. But I'm not an expert yet. I'm hoping I can also track down photos or prints of the inside of the buildings so I can get an idea of what I need to build.
Alright, that's enough rambling. I'm getting ahead of myself a bit here and I don't think most people are into these depth of detail anyway.
Bill, great job on the ceiling paint!
A few things to consider with ventilation are the potential for windblown rain coming in on the computer fans and elsewhere, keeping bugs out, and keeping your house's conditioned air inside when the fans are not in use. These points may or may not be a concern, if you have already figured out a way to deal with them, or are planning to remove the fans when not in use.
My suggestion for a long term solution would be to install an inexpensive bath exhaust fan combined with a louvered exterior vent. The fan housing could mount in between the ceiling joists in the vicinity of the layout and a 4" flexible duct would connect the fan to the exterior vent. I also like to wire these fans to a timer.
This way you would have less to be concerned with after a running session and could leave the fan running unattended if you needed to leave the house shortly afterwards.
Bill, you are right, those missed spots will never be noticed! Congratulations on finding more information for the too be built Youngstown Sheet and Tube buildings. Yes, you have plenty of time to research all of that. So I take it, you are just going to mount the Masonite right on the studs and leave the lower parts of the wall as is?
@SteveH would the piece you posted a picture of just go through the wall of the house? Because you called out my exact dilemma. I can make something to mount where the window opening is in the glass block window but getting louvers to open and close is still a concern. The current louvers are hand crank. I removed the crank mechanisms and oiled them but they still didn't flop open easily. This might be an easier solution if I just need a 4" hole saw to go through the siding.
@Mark Boyce yes. The Masonite will go right on the studs and the backdrop on that. But don't forget I am adding the lower level down the road so that the dump area at the blast furnace can drain right into the mine on the lower level so I don't have to fill my coal/limestone/ore cars. It will all be the same material but I will sacrifice the realism of the color difference for being able to refill cars without touching anything. I will add that masonite to the lower section later on and add my backdrop then.
For the record, yes I am concerned about doing the lower level after the upper level but this is the way it has to be. There will be a lot less detail on that lower level though so that make help.
Ah ha! Yes, I don’t remember the lower level. Short term memory…
How much distance will there be between levels?
@BillYo414 posted:@SteveH would the piece you posted a picture of just go through the wall of the house? Because you called out my exact dilemma. I can make something to mount where the window opening is in the glass block window but getting louvers to open and close is still a concern. The current louvers are hand crank. I removed the crank mechanisms and oiled them but they still didn't flop open easily. This might be an easier solution if I just need a 4" hole saw to go through the siding.
Yes these and similar vent designs are routinely mounted to exterior siding and caulked in place after fully assembling the hose connection to it.
Since the exhaust hose is 4" nominal inside diameter, a hole made with a 4 3/4" hole saw allows room for the hose clamp to be snug against the back of the vent housing inside the hole. Personally I make a lot of holes like this and prefer a hole saw for the speed and neatness it allows, but a jigsaw can also be used to save on tool costs.
EDIT: I'd also recommend this type of hose clamp with the worm gear. It provides a more secure connection that's less likely to pull off than other types of clamps (which is a real PITA if the vent's already mounted and caulked to the wall.
In many locales, building fire code now requires exhaust duct to be non-combustible (metal). The white vinyl spring type vent hose is typically no longer allowed for permanent installations in homes. Flexible aluminum duct is easy to work with and should meet your needs, although some local building codes may require insulated duct.
@Mark Boyce I mean there has been a long delay in my progress. As of today, I'm looking at 24" between levels. I got the helix roughly worked out. In fact the switch came in today. I'm setting up the approach to make sure I don't have the grade too steep. I'm considering lowering that 24". The mine tipple (if that's the right word) is the deciding factor. I've been reading on the mines here (which is what my mine is based on) and they were mostly slope or shaft style so we'll see what happens with the height. I have a book on what buildings go with what mine shaft style.
@SteveH Gotcha. I actually might go this route. It would be a lot easier than modifying my windows. But I also have a clear lane between the joists that will stretch the length of the layout. Plus I happen to have about 50' of that flexible duct. This might be the way! Looks like I'll be breaking out that spray gun for one last job haha
Bill, oh yes! Now I remember, you are planning a helix! Yes there is a bit of engineering needed to make that work out well, but I know you are up to the task!! 👍🏻
@Mark Boyce posted:Yes there is a bit of engineering needed to make that work out well, but I know you are up to the task!! 👍🏻
I think I got it all figured out too. The approaches have to be smoothed and I'll be good to go. I'm most scared of the wheels on the leading trucks popping up and out of the tracks on the way up. Also string lining 12 hoppers with black sand in them is a scary thought too but that's part of the excitement I suppose.
@BillYo414 posted:..Looks like I'll be breaking out that spray gun for one last job haha
Maybe this time you could paint the duct and such on the ground before installing it. Less paint on you ... 
@SteveH posted:Maybe this time you could paint the duct and such on the ground before installing it. Less paint on you ...
I think I will. I still got some paint left.
Looks good Bill. What's a paint job without overspray.......
If you want a nice exhaust fan, take a look at Fantech.
I was worried about the noise @RSJB18. That fan would solve that for sure. I hope 188CFM is enough but I suppose too much CFM would start to make a whooshing sound at the intake.
All but one stud has been stuck to the wall and I cleaned up quite a bit. I had plastic everywhere. Plus a certain dog decided to shred a cardboard box while he watched me do some touch up painting. Then I had to vacuum because of the saw dust and concrete dust from drilling. Now I just gotta get the masonite up so I can attach a backdrop to it. I'm planning on using Railroadbackdrops.com. I was originally going to get one with another steel mill on it to provide another point to generate freight traffic. I decided against it because I grew concerned that my models will clash too much with the printed mill. Capturing the density of detail on a model that can be found in a photo is tough or maybe impossible. So I'm not going to try. If anything, I'm considering taking a photo of my models when they're completed and then sticking them on the backdrop if I want to do anything like that. I'm actually kind of glad to just be doing skies. I think it will be simpler.
The 2-10-10-2 is en route so I best be getting a table of some type built!
Bill,
You're on the roll man!
Dave
Thanks! Gotta get it done while there's time!
Looks great Bill!
George
Bill, I see a certain innocent dog saying, "who me?? That must have been someone else preparing that box for recycle." Railroadbackdrops.com have a lot of nice choices. I can see your point about the mill area. Any backdrop is better than none at all, so plain sky may be the thing in certain areas.
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