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 Greetings OGRers,

 

My question concerns the speed of my Santa Fe FT when I compare the full throttle speed to my other engines powered by the same ZW transformer.

At full throttle all others run very fast (I do slow them down for normal operation) the Santa FE  runs at a much slower speed when at full throttle.

When I add it's own non powered A unit, it runs even slower like it can't handle the load. It runs this (slow) way conventional and TMCC.

 

The engine 6-18157 originally was an AA conventional  upgradeable set and was upgraded to TMCC and railsounds   before I purchased it.

 

I have searched and read many of the OGR forum posts and tried to turn off speed limits, reset, to reprogram, and it still runs  the same slow & steady.

 

Am I missing something or is this normal for this engine?

 

Any help and ideas would certainly be appreciated,

 

Thank you

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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To help you solve the problem we need more information...

1. Make a small mark or dot on one of the driving wheels with a soft pencil or sharpie marker.

2. Take the shell off of your loco and lay the chassis on its side.

3. Make a small mark on the flywheel

4. Turn the flywheel by hand (this will NOT hurt the loco.)  

5. Count how many turns of the flywheel it takes for one full revolution of the driving wheels.

 

For years Lionels were anywhere from 8:1 to 10:1 and ran so fast they would fly off the table!  My guess is that your loco is one of the ones with a double-threaded worm that runs about 12.5:1

 

It should still easily reach 60-70 scale mph, which is fast enough for most layouts.  Try this, post your results, and we'll go from there.  -Ted

 

Last edited by Ted S

Thanks Ted and John,

 

I checked the ratio and found both motors are 12.5:1 , and each turned very smooth forward and reverse with almost no resistance at all and no bad spots. I also ran it without the shell to make sure there was no flywheel to shell interference.

I  noticed the motors do get warmer than I would expect, but I am not sure if this is normal or not.

 

 

 

 

John here's what happened with these...

In an attempt to get better slow-speed performance, Lionel changed the worm gear on the motor shaft from a triple threaded "high-angle" worm, to a double threaded worm with a more conservative pitch.  To save money they did not also change the worm wheel in the truck block.

The die-cast metal motor mount which keys the motor into the truck block was not spec'd or cast 100% correctly so the mesh is off.  This causes friction and high current draw.  Because this was considered a low-cost locomotive, I don't believe that a replacement motor mount was ever offered*  But I heard that some repair centers had success adjusting the gear mesh by inserting a cardboard(!) shim to set the motor at a slight angle.

 

*Because Lionel's products tend to evolve over time, you might be able to figure out what the "next generation" of this loco was.  Take a look at the LionChief FT from the current catalogue.  (Lionel's website has exploded parts diagrams for most of their locos.)  If you purchase motor mounts for a newer model of the same loco, they might have the changed geometry necessary for a correct gear mesh.  Sometimes you can tell because the loco's product number is the middle digits of the part number.

 

Rockyshores, you have a few choices.

1. You can keep running it the way it is.  How slow is it?  (How many feet does the loco travel in one minute at full throttle?)

2. If you're handy you can try to shim the motors yourself and see if that improves performance.  I would use metal shim stock, not cardboard which will compress over time.  It shouldn't take much, maybe less than 0.005"

3. Since your profile says you live in NJ there should be a few Lionel authorized service centers within driving distance.  You can take the loco to one of these (along with a print-out of this thread) and see if they are familiar with the problem.  They should be able to correct it for you.  If you're not handy this is the solution I recommend.

4. You can send it back to Lionel for an out-of-warranty repair.

 

This loco was made at point in Lionel's history where in the face of stiff competition they were trying hard to improve performance, but didn't have the budget, or were unwilling to commit to all-new tooling.  Once corrected it definitely has smoother slow-speed performance than earlier models.  You just have to take some extra steps to unlock its potential.  -Ted

Last edited by Ted S

Well well, so maybe it isn't my imagination! 

 

1. I will clock the feet per minute and report back, this info will also help as a before and after test.

 

2. I am very willing and able to try the shim idea and would actually prefer to do it myself. ("I just love taking it apart!")

 

Just so I understand clearly, the purpose of the shim that will set the motor at a slight angle is to move the worm gear   AWAY    from the worm wheel in the truck block providing more clearance, less friction, and  less heat.

 

3. Yes, northwest NJ

 

4. Do you know what Lionel does for this repair?

    change worm wheel in the truck block,

    shim the motor or

    swap the motor mounts

 

 

It really does seem like it has more potential, but something is holding it back.

 

Thanks again,

Andy

 

Last edited by rockyshores

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