Now that the Lionel 2015 Signature Catalog has been unveiled...

Nothing that I really need, will wait for the MTH catalog to see if there are any surprises. If nothing there that excites me will wait for the blowouts at the end of the year.

Out of curiosity, who is Lionel's biggest dealer?

Probably Ro

 

>>>Are you waiting until all the large national dealers weigh in with their price lists before placing your pre-orders?  <<

 

Pretty easy to figure out. With the possible exception of a Legacy full featured Blue Goose, I have zero interest in buying streamlined steam.  Across the board price increases seem to be the only real eye opener in it, so for me this catalog is one big goose egg.

Joe

Very interesting observation, and I agree: it is what I have seen, too.

 

I think retailers are struggling somewhat with Lionel's new pricing policy.  This is the second year of what seems to be a shift to a more "Bachmann like" pricing policy - set the list high and wholesale them with a big margin so most vendors can discount them heavily.

 

As I see it, retailers are learning from their first year of experience with Lionel's pricing like this.  Many - most, competing on price with the VlBB that first go-round.  Many probably realized they made little money selling on low price with free shipping and that it is just not worth it and have decided to change their tactics.  Some have not.  It is going to be interesting.  

 

Buyers like me are learning, too, and have to adjust.  I used to expect only 5-7% off Lionel, now its more like 15% or more in some cases.  

 

So I continue with what has been my newly-modified buying procedure since my local LHS went out of business; I have a four step process:

- I always check the big-river site first: if they have it for a good price I buy it there:- easy convenient fast.

- If it is commodity or standard (styrene supplies, small rolling stock, stuff recently released under $500) and big river doesn't have it (which is common with O-gauge) I check M. B. Klein next: been buying from them for over 25 years.  Good prices and fastest shipping I know of (if I order by 10AM and I often get it the next day by 6PM, even with just normal shipping).  

- If Klein doesn't have it, or its over $500, or pre-order, I call or e-mail Patricks trains.  Not always the lowest price, but I don't buy on lowest price as long as the price is reasonable.  So far it has been and the service is superb.

- If Patricks trains can't get it for me, I shop around, but usually I can't find it anywhere else, either.

 

They say that patience is a virtue, so I'm going to wait and see if opportunity rises.

Lionel has cut the margins on items in this catalog.  But I'll wait for Henry (Lionel Train Store of NJ [ex Island Trains]) to list his prices, and go from there.

 

 

All I can remember is the panic and frustration toward Ro for not having the VL BB BTO price up the instant the digital catalog went online. Folks scrambled to get a preorder in at another dealer.

 

Ro posted his prices a week or two after Lionel posted the online catalog, and came in lower than everyone else. He offered the BTO prices for a month or two after the items were announced

Tactically, however, Lionel has put itself in a more advantageous position with its built to order (BTO) paradigm.  Larger dealers will certainly order some BTO products for which they do not have a customer order. But no one knows what dealers are going to do this, for what products, or what quantity.   So if someone is interested in any BTO items, this Lionel paradigm makes it a lot harder for someone unhappy with the aggressive pricing to play the wait-and-see game (in terms of not pre-ordering due to the pricing and then waiting to see what items will see drastically reduced prices toward 2016).  

 

Peter 

Nope- I will march down to my local LHS and place my order there. With 20-30 percent off the catalog price, an additional 10% repeat customer savings and 3 month layaway plan. I cannot go wrong.

The dust settled for me a long time ago. So much drama has been posted on this Forum about the retail pricing in the new Signature Catalog that to me is totally unnecessary and meaningless. Lionel Management has been challenged about their pricing strategy which again is their business, not ours. We have the right to exercise our opinions by either buying or not buying.

 

Now for the dust matter you raise. I found out a long time ago that if you deal with a reliable dealer, you don't have to worry about the best or greatest pricing, they will take care of you. Example, when the Gold Edition Berkshire and matching passenger cars were first catalogued a year ago last October, there was NO PRICING in the catalog. I called my dealer and was their first customer to order this set. I knew they would take care of me and in fact, they did with excellent pricing.

 

My advice, relax David, hopefully the world will not come to an end with meaningless retail pricing.

Sounds like your LHS is treating you well. 

 

David 

Oh I'm quite relaxed, PTC.  Just making market observations as they happen.

 

There's very little for me in Lionel's latest Signature catalog -- especially compared to my buying habits of years ago.  Actually more interested in goodies in the Holiday Memories catalog.  But it's still nonetheless interesting to watch the various machinations play out.   Even downright entertaining at times.  

 

And for the record, we're probably using the same "reliable dealer" in what's seemingly become America's snow belt this Winter season, so I have no worries on either the pricing nor product availability fronts for the select items of interest.  Life is good.

 

As for "challenging" Lionel's management regarding the recent trends to inflate MSRP's over the last couple of catalogs... I think they're more than up to the task of handling it well and receiving the consumer message.  And I'm sure it comes as no surprise to them either.  After all, they're big boys who know the game well, and that's why they get paid the big bucks to help the medicine go down.  

 

David

 

 

All i know is i am not paying 565 Trainworlds preorder on es44acs.. You wont be selling to many at that price...

That's why I was so surprised at the range of prices for pre-order.

 

It's one thing if a dealer holds out for a higher price after products are shipped.  We've seen that in years past -- the philosophy being when the lower-priced sources sell out, the fella who wants something will have to pay whoever has supply remaining at their asking price.  But pre-order? 

 

David

David

Laying off the pre orders, just bought a pair of Legacy Mallets which are working nicely, which took up most of the funds. Saving the rest for York and pre-orders from 2014 vol-1 MTH catalog

Steve

 

I will have to see what the nearest Hobby Shop can do for the SD40s in the coming week.

 

Andrew

I don't even shop. I just call Charlie and forget about it, then trains just show up on my door step. Been doing it that way for more than 20 years.

did you get an email with a special very early price on the big boy?

  

 

David

Thanks David, not having a decent LHS makes it something of a no brainer. Apparently not enough people in Minnesota do 3 rail O to support one.

 

Good Day,

 

The BTO engines price-points seem to be very wide. I'm waiting to view Charles Ro's prices before I make any purchasing decisions.

 

Regards,

Swafford

"It's unfortunate, but this disappointing experience was really unsettling and has me thinking it might be a good idea to locate another big dealer that offers good discounts and excellent customer care. Any suggestions"

 

Charlie's son Chuck is the one to speak to. I have dealt with Charles Ro for many, many years and they are an outstanding dealer in every respect. The last thing I would do is to look for another dealer if I were you.

"Charlie's son Chuck is the one to speak to. I have dealt with Charles Ro for many, many years and they are an outstanding dealer in every respect. The last thing I would do is to look for another dealer if I were you."

       


I will speak to Charlie. Tried to at the Springfield show but timing wasn't right. In any event, don't know why you advise not to even consider other dealers. I don't think it hurts to have options.

NB. Tried to edit initial post that basically said (a) I have bought all my new products from Ro for entire time we've been in hobby; (b) great customer care from Charlie (jr) but ran into a really bad situation with Charles (sr) re: material defects with VLBB (that Lionel resolved); and (c) that experience left me disappointed with my favorite dealer and I want to explore options/looking for recommendations on other large dealers that offer top customer care and good discounts.  Somehow I ended up deleting that post.

No... Without a doubt, you are not alone in your decision to scale back purchases.  With the kind of price increases we're seeing in 2015, you'd think folks have been starving for product for years now... when in fact most folks already have more toy trains than they'll ever be able to run or display... and there are TONS of great deals on the secondary market -- now more than ever.  

 

Combine all that with the fact that this audience isn't exactly expanding by leaps and bounds, and it appears that the timing couldn't be any worse for these kinds of price increases.   

 

David

Part of my job is to consult around inventory management and purchasing/pricing strategies for manufacturing and distribution in a variety of industries.  

 

I've been casually watching the O gauge market since I got back into the hobby five years ago and (for what it's worth) I often find the logic hard to follow.  It's no wonder pricing sometimes leaves folks frustrated or confused.  A lot is in flux--new pricing strategies are being floated AND many new products are being unveiled.  Hard for the consumer to process all that simultaneously.

 

I'm inclined to agree with the guidance others have offered... find a place you like to buy from and place your order.  Don't worry about trying to shop around for that extra 5% off, as it won't be worth your time or energy.

" find a place you like to buy from and place your order.  Don't worry about trying to shop around for that extra 5% off, as it won't be worth your time or energy."

 

This is just smart advice. Good for you.

Sure will Ed-

Email me.

 

There were no engines that caught my interest

 

 

 

Just curious.  In reading a few business articles, it appears that the Chinese and other places in the Far East may be getting to the point of having moved past the point of being low in costs.  They may going the way of Japan.  Is this affecting the costs for Lionel and MTH where they have to raise prices like they have?

 

Where is the next low cost area?  Can India do it?  I think the Middle East and Africa are still unstable enough that it would be too risky to move into these areas?  Maybe some of the manufacturing can come back to the US if it can be highly automated to not require many people in the factory.

 

I was interested in the NS ES44 but the price is too high right now.  Even if the price was lower, I will wait until they hit the market and see what deals can be found.  This is what I did with the CSX ES44.

Nothing in there for me.  I'm priced out

Just received the hard copies via LCCA yesterday.  Much easier to peruse them in that format.  Based on previous catalogs, these seem to be, at least to me, as ' which way is the wind blowing?' catalogs.  There is very little new, so we 'old timers' that have a ton of this stuff already won't be spending too much.  What I find interesting is the number of LionChief RTR sets versus only two RTR transformer sets versus no LionChief Plus sets. You would think that the six 'Service Station' sets would come with a LionChief Plus engine? I think after all the smoke settles, the bean counters will tally up what sold and what did not sell.  Maybe less RTR 'G' sets, maybe more.  Maybe RTR transformer sets go the way of the dodo replaced by some higher end LionChiefPlus sets.  Don't know what you can come up with that is 'new' regarding accessories other than more plug and play.  I for one would consider buying a  LionChiefPlus set if it had some cars or accessories unique to the set.